Upright Rows: resvisited

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Peak_Power

New Member
I know what everyone here thinks of Upright Rows, and are very vocal about them being bad for your rotator cuffs, but lately some things have forced me to believe they are the best exercise for the lateral delts (better than military/overhead press), and worth revisiting.

Firstly, according to exrx.net, MP and OHP target the anterior delts, even though the lat delts are a major synergist, while Uprow specifically targets the lat delts. exrx may be wrong but it certainly seems when doing the exercises that Uprow targets the lat delts more than Presses, and as a compound exercise can use more weight than Lat Raises.

A buff guy at my gym, who is big and lean and has the best lat delts I have ever seen, does upright row and has been doing them for years. These delts are seriously awesome. When he does the upright row you can see his lat delts bulging, it looks awesome.

I've been reading a lot of T-nation articles on posture and the rotator cuffs, and one of them is about gym myths, one of the myths is that certain exercises are "bad", such as behind the neck press/pull and upright row. Neither exercise is "bad", just increased risk if form is bad, and problematic for people with pre-existing neck/shoulder problems. According to the artcile (and I'm inclined to agree), those exercises will not cause problems for healthly people who use proper technique.

Sure because of the increased risk I wouldn't give them to newbies, but for us experienced lifters who find the lat delts lagging, and who know how to use correct technique in all exercises, I now think Upright Row is a good exercise selection.

Edit: Some key points for good form: don't allow shoulder girdle to elevate, keep elbows foward of your body, and keep elbows above hands at all times. Raise bar to chest and don't bring elbows higher than shoulders.

If you've never done the exercise before or feel any pain, get a professional instructor to check your technique. And of course if problems/pain persists then drop the exercise.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/BBUprightRow.html

DB Upright Row is a good alternative because the weights can move in a freer range of motion.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBUprightRow.html
 
I can do upright rows without pain or injury, overhead presses are what I have to be careful with. This kind of stuff depends on your body structure and what form you use. Don't pull the bar too high on upright rows and you should be fine.
 
I am currently doing upright rows with dumbells with no problems, it hits my side delts like nothing else. And it really STRENGTHENS my rotator cuff. I don't use a barbell because the range of motion is not as 'natural' since the grip is fixed and the hands cannot move further apart or closer together as may be needed throughout the motion. I start with dumbells at my side and then just pull them up to about my chin level, arms end up out wide, but elbows are bent. Come to think of it I am basically doing side laterals with bent elbows to use more load and get more pressure on the muscle. I find regular side laterals pull weirdly on my shoulder-joint and not so much on the muscle itself.
 
Yeah good point Sci I find that doing lat raises with a hammer grip use the postior delts too much (which creates the pulling your refering too I think), especially if you have rounded shoulders. So lat raises with internally rotated shoulders (uprow with no contraction of the bicep) would actually be pretty good too.
 
Good post, Peak! Very balanced consideration of the relevant points.

A little common sense and care goes a long way toward avoiding injury. You're right to question blanket avoidance of an exercise because some have had problems, whether through poor practices or just a pre-existing condition that prevents them from doing certain things.

I'm going to reconsider upright rows.
 
Besides, blanket avoidance like that is laughed at when it comes to other exercises.
Examples:

"Don't squat, it's bad for the knees."

I think we all know that squats CAN indeed be bad for your knees... if you squat like a moron, and don't bother learning proper form. But with proper form, squats are one of the most productive lifts you can do (behind my favorite of deadlifts, of course...)
 
I think not raising the bar too high during upright-rows as Tot mentioned is a good way to reduce any risk of impingement. As always some folks will be more susceptible to this risk than others but if you raise your arms too high doing upright rows then it'll probably happen. The danger is that you might not be aware that there is a problem until some real damage is done to the tendons in your rotator cuffs. Using dbs as Sci mentioned is sure to help.

I think doing URs with HST adds to the possible problem because you increment the loads up to your 5RM (and beyond). A lot of folks not on HST would probably use lighter loads and do more reps so they'd be less likely to cause any damage.

Taking all the safety tips into consideration, if you are going to do them then maybe it would be wiser to do them every other cycle rather than back to back cycles.
 
Personally, I love upright rows.  I did them with a close grip on a barbell.

I could only get about 40lbs when I started and when I stopped doing them I was doing 135.  I did 3 sets of 4-6 reps. When I could lift the weight 6 times, I added 5lbs. My back was looking pretty good, especially the lower part of the traps.  I think my delts looked better then too.

I only stopped them because I switched to other workout plans besides max ot and didn't have the time to do all of my favorite lifts.  Never had any pain or problems with them whatsoever.  Summertime arrived, I have 3 acres of yard and some woods to maintain, 2 kids to take out for summer activities, and a wife that needs a lot of my time too...

Simply didn't have time for them.  Perhaps a training cycle or two down the road, I'll add them back in.  Thanks for the reminder of how good they are.
 
I think to address lol's concerns, you'd alternate them with Military Press (just as you alternate deads/squats, or chins/rows), so with those A/B splits, where people are recommending doing MP each time, instead we could recommend MP/Uprow combo, which would mean a true A/B with different exercises for each day.

Deads/Squats
Chins/Row
Inc Bench/Dips
MP/Uprow
 
Ive been warned off doing upright rows with a closer grip because its said to be bad for the wrists, has anyone experienced that  
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 should the grip be closer or wider apart?
 
Well with dumbbells, like they were recommending, it should nt be a problem. If you are going to use a barbells then well... I dunno. I would guess about shoulder length.
 
Jonny, it does seem awkward on the wrists to do them with a close grip. Just playing with it, it seems to me that a bit more than shoulder width would be good.

At that width I can pull to where my elbows are about shoulder height. I can't go higher if my hands don't go forward of my elbows, even with no weight. With the hands closer together than that you can pull higher, as people have recommended to NOT do. I think that the problem is probably that the way you go higher with the narrower grip involves rotating the upper arm, which brings the rotator cuff into play. Maybe that's the way people get into trouble with these.

For those with a better knowledge of exercise physiology than me, does that make good sense?
 
I think you hit it right on the head. Also, look at the leverage disadvantage of this lift! Going heavy on it just seems suicidal if you're going very high. One of the reasons that people are negative about it is bad press: from the sports physicians. Statistically, this is one of the high injury movements. But so are squats, which we know for sure that done right (if you have a good back) won't hurt you, so this thread has me thinking differently about them.
I don't think I should do them though, because of the pain in my right shoulder. Lately, the seated overhead presses seem to be making it worse. I need some kind of change again; it started with the full lateral raises.
 
I like uprights, as long as your elbows do NOT raise above your shoulder, preferably a little lower.

I also, like some have mentioned, have more issues with OHP, so when I do them I also do not let my elbows go below my shoulders, basically the bar stops at the top of head on the eccentric.

As far as synergy and activation, even in OHP the lateral delt is quite active, for example,

Take one hand and rest it on your shoulder, now take the other arm and act like you are pressing a DB (like when you were in school and had to raise your hand to ask a question but like me only did so half assed), you should feel your delts, anterior and lateral contract. Now take that same arm and move your elbow either further away from the midline or closer to your midline, IE like adjust grip width if holding a BB, you'll notice that the wider grip adds more emphasis to the lateral without really diminishing the anterior. Also as the loads get heavier the synergists are called more into play as well.
 
I have been using upright rows for several years, and I have no shoulder injuries. I always felt my routines had to be "symmetric" or quite evenly balanced so each muscle group gets an even amount of work. Therefore if I had a pressing movement for my shoulders, I had to have a rowing movement too for biceps to get the same work as triceps. (But if a muscle group is lagging, it will get more attention though)

For upright rows, I don't like using a barbell, but rather cables or dumbbells. Now I use a variation where I only use one arm at a time

The routine Peak Power mentions is the one I use now for HST, only flat bench (+ abs)
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you talked me into it. I'm switching to D/B's for shoulder presses before I start the fives. It worked for bench so it makes sense to me.
I noticed that Dan's arm raising trick also invoved the posterior delt when the elbows went to midline.
 
There are better exercises. Why risk it?
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Tough on the lower back, cervicle spine, rotator cuff and wrist.

"Your gonna shoot your eye out Ralphie."
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I agree. Any type of olympic lift or pull is better than upright rows. Power cleans and clean pulls will allow much greater loads than upright rows.
 
<div>
(liegelord @ Nov. 05 2006,17:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I agree. Any type of olympic lift or pull is better than upright rows.  Power cleans and clean pulls will allow much greater loads than upright rows.</div>
Imo, olympic lifts and cleans are not very good for hypertrophy, they are an explosive power movement not a movement which puts alot of tension on the muscle for a decent amount of time. Which is why most olympic lifters do not look like bodybuilders even with low bodyfat. Olympic lifters usually have huge thighs though, but other than that their upper bodies are not extremely hypertrophied. I don't like cleans much for building muscles, I tried them once and got a little stimulation of traps and delts, but nothing great.
I noticed you are always telling people they have to do olypmic-style lifts, leigelord. If explosive strength is the goal then I agree, but not for body-building. The entire body can be hypertrophied without ever doing an olympic lift in your whole life.
So I have to disagree that cleans are better then more controlled upright rows, etc.
 
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