using the sample workout
- Thread starter the core
- Start date
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Not to sound like a beginner, B/c I have over year of HST expeirence and 10 years lifting, but I do want to continue with the question a bit further. I too, maybe out of habit still use pec dec, side lateral raises and other isolation exercises. Maybe b/c its 10 years of habit?
However I use the lat side raise b/c I feel my front delts get hit enough using bench. So HST experts correct me if I am wrong here...is it just as beneficial to drop the isolations year round and stick with all compounds?
I know the answer to this question so I hesitate to even ask it b/c as long as I have been on the board..I should answer my own question..and well my reason for doing these isolations is b/c I may want to bring up a lagging bodypart or say in the case of delts hit them from the side?
Am I looking at this correctly?
thanks
However I use the lat side raise b/c I feel my front delts get hit enough using bench. So HST experts correct me if I am wrong here...is it just as beneficial to drop the isolations year round and stick with all compounds?
I know the answer to this question so I hesitate to even ask it b/c as long as I have been on the board..I should answer my own question..and well my reason for doing these isolations is b/c I may want to bring up a lagging bodypart or say in the case of delts hit them from the side?
Am I looking at this correctly?
thanks
9to5lifter
New Member
the core,
You are supposed to work up to your 15, 10 or whatever RM max during a 2-week block, not just use the same weight for each workout. You start out relatively light and you increment each workout until in the end you use your max weights for the rep range you are in. Sorry if I've got it wrong, but I believe there is a misunderstanding here.
You are supposed to work up to your 15, 10 or whatever RM max during a 2-week block, not just use the same weight for each workout. You start out relatively light and you increment each workout until in the end you use your max weights for the rep range you are in. Sorry if I've got it wrong, but I believe there is a misunderstanding here.
9to5lifter
New Member
When you get to 10 reps, you work up to your 10 RM over 6 workouts. Similarly, when you get to 5 reps, you work up to your 5 RM.
Let's say that your 5 RM is 200 and the increment you use is 10. During your 5 reps 2-week block you will be using the following weights (for the respective workout); 150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200.
Read the HST article and it will all become clear to you.
Let's say that your 5 RM is 200 and the increment you use is 10. During your 5 reps 2-week block you will be using the following weights (for the respective workout); 150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200.
Read the HST article and it will all become clear to you.
Fausto
HST Expert
Core
Here what I do:
I calculate my 1 RM for most exercises, then use a percentage of it for each rep scheme, it seems to qwork for me and where I was off it was never by much so I just adjusted and went on:
15's up to 65 - 70% of 1 RM
10's up to 75 - 80% of 1 RM
5's up to 85 - 90% of 1 RM
negs up to 100 - 110% of 1 RM
Obviously the other way is to work out the maximum for each rep scheme, and then work each two weeks towards that maximum, in that case the negatives are your 1RM unless of course you want to go beyond that
Hope this helps dude!
Here what I do:
I calculate my 1 RM for most exercises, then use a percentage of it for each rep scheme, it seems to qwork for me and where I was off it was never by much so I just adjusted and went on:
15's up to 65 - 70% of 1 RM
10's up to 75 - 80% of 1 RM
5's up to 85 - 90% of 1 RM
negs up to 100 - 110% of 1 RM
Obviously the other way is to work out the maximum for each rep scheme, and then work each two weeks towards that maximum, in that case the negatives are your 1RM unless of course you want to go beyond that
Hope this helps dude!
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
Joe, Yes that's fine.[b said:
I would recommend still using a compound though then finishing them off with an isolation.
jvroig
Super Moderator
Hey Joe 
Well, don't worry about sounding like anything. It's never a shame to ask - it's a shame to not ask and then find out that you've been doing something wrong for a long time simply because you didn't bother to ask. that would be a kick in the butt, wouldn't it?
I offer pretty much the same advice as Dan. I personally prefer doing compounds, then an additional isolation depending on the phase of my cycle and if it's lagging or needs additional work.
I'm not an expert, sorry. For now, you'll just have to be satisfied with me. But don't worry, Fausto and Dan will be here sure enough shortly
So anyhoo... well, don't just drop the isolations year round. That's not exactly the point. They're not always useless exercises. The controversy surrounding them is more on how people fail to use them correctly, or rely on them too much.
Whether they will be useful or not depends on
1) Purpose
2) Workout Routine
3) Other training circumstances like rep phase
4) The isolation movement's stretch and load.
(This list isn't in order of importance or anything. I just enumerated them)
Purpose - what do you want to accomplish? If your purpose in doing a ton of isolation movements is to a thinking similar to "I wanna put emphasis on ALL body parts to make them grow like crazy!!!" (in other words, overall appearance), err... you should be doing big compounds and not tiring yourself and slowing down your recovery by adding more and more isolations to the mix. What's a good purpose and what's not? You can go back and read Jules' take on that matter.
Workout Routine - how many compounds are you doing? What movements are these? How hard do they hit the different muscle groups? Is the overlap good enough? If yes, then adding isolations may simply add nothing more to the muscle and, in fact, may hinder you a little by slowing down your recovery and/or fatiguing you more needlessly. If no, then isolations would be useful.
Other training circumstances - what rep phase are you in? If your main moves are compounds and you have very little else, will those movements in the earlier phases (say 15's or early 10RM) be enough? Or do you need to make certain muscle groups do an additional exercise because the compounds aren't heavy yet, so other participating muscle groups in the movemnt may not be hit enough and you could do with a little more recruitment, hence a good time to add an extra isolation.
Stretch and load - this is obvious, isn't? After you answer all the above guidelines and you say "yep, I need to do an extra isolation or two", then figure out what iso you want to do taking into consideration it's ROM/stretch and load.
In my opinion only, do the isolation movements during the start of your cycle because this is when your compound movements are lighter - perhaps certain participating muscle groups like biceps and triceps could use more recruitment, so why not add them now? By the time you go to the 5's, hey, the biceps and triceps will be exposed to greater load in the compounds, so we might not need them there.
But don't start them off using light loads. Although you start them early in the cycle, use a heavy load. I can't say how much, this isn't a strict rule. I'd say do something like your 10RM, or maybe heavier.
As for the stretch, a good idea (and again just my opinion), since you start heavy on the isolation while your compounds are still light (to increase recruitment) would be to choose an isolation with regular stretch only (again, since the compounds aren't heavy yet but we start the iso heavy), then when you max out the iso exercise, you'll probably be jsut starting out with your heavy compounds. When that happens, instead of stopping your isolation exercise, you can still do a little of it, this time using a different exercise that has significantly more stretch. For example, you start heavy on regular curls. When you max out on this, it's already getting really heavy on your compounds anyway, so you drop this particular exercise and instead do an incline dumbbell curl - although you'll be dealing with less weight (since you already maxed out on your curl), you'll be getting more stretch, which is exactly what you need now since the compounds will probably overload your arms already anyway now that these compounds are heavy already.
Hope that helps
-JV
Well, don't worry about sounding like anything. It's never a shame to ask - it's a shame to not ask and then find out that you've been doing something wrong for a long time simply because you didn't bother to ask.
that would be a kick in the butt, wouldn't it? I offer pretty much the same advice as Dan. I personally prefer doing compounds, then an additional isolation depending on the phase of my cycle and if it's lagging or needs additional work.
[b said:
I'm not an expert, sorry. For now, you'll just have to be satisfied with me. But don't worry, Fausto and Dan will be here sure enough shortly
So anyhoo... well, don't just drop the isolations year round. That's not exactly the point. They're not always useless exercises. The controversy surrounding them is more on how people fail to use them correctly, or rely on them too much.
Whether they will be useful or not depends on
1) Purpose
2) Workout Routine
3) Other training circumstances like rep phase
4) The isolation movement's stretch and load.
(This list isn't in order of importance or anything. I just enumerated them)
Purpose - what do you want to accomplish? If your purpose in doing a ton of isolation movements is to a thinking similar to "I wanna put emphasis on ALL body parts to make them grow like crazy!!!" (in other words, overall appearance), err... you should be doing big compounds and not tiring yourself and slowing down your recovery by adding more and more isolations to the mix. What's a good purpose and what's not? You can go back and read Jules' take on that matter.
Workout Routine - how many compounds are you doing? What movements are these? How hard do they hit the different muscle groups? Is the overlap good enough? If yes, then adding isolations may simply add nothing more to the muscle and, in fact, may hinder you a little by slowing down your recovery and/or fatiguing you more needlessly. If no, then isolations would be useful.
Other training circumstances - what rep phase are you in? If your main moves are compounds and you have very little else, will those movements in the earlier phases (say 15's or early 10RM) be enough? Or do you need to make certain muscle groups do an additional exercise because the compounds aren't heavy yet, so other participating muscle groups in the movemnt may not be hit enough and you could do with a little more recruitment, hence a good time to add an extra isolation.
Stretch and load - this is obvious, isn't? After you answer all the above guidelines and you say "yep, I need to do an extra isolation or two", then figure out what iso you want to do taking into consideration it's ROM/stretch and load.
In my opinion only, do the isolation movements during the start of your cycle because this is when your compound movements are lighter - perhaps certain participating muscle groups like biceps and triceps could use more recruitment, so why not add them now? By the time you go to the 5's, hey, the biceps and triceps will be exposed to greater load in the compounds, so we might not need them there.
But don't start them off using light loads. Although you start them early in the cycle, use a heavy load. I can't say how much, this isn't a strict rule. I'd say do something like your 10RM, or maybe heavier.
As for the stretch, a good idea (and again just my opinion), since you start heavy on the isolation while your compounds are still light (to increase recruitment) would be to choose an isolation with regular stretch only (again, since the compounds aren't heavy yet but we start the iso heavy), then when you max out the iso exercise, you'll probably be jsut starting out with your heavy compounds. When that happens, instead of stopping your isolation exercise, you can still do a little of it, this time using a different exercise that has significantly more stretch. For example, you start heavy on regular curls. When you max out on this, it's already getting really heavy on your compounds anyway, so you drop this particular exercise and instead do an incline dumbbell curl - although you'll be dealing with less weight (since you already maxed out on your curl), you'll be getting more stretch, which is exactly what you need now since the compounds will probably overload your arms already anyway now that these compounds are heavy already.
Hope that helps
-JV
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Thanks JV that definatly helps. Spoken by a soon to be expert!
To give you and idea JV of what my routine is I will post it. I am expirementing this time around with just upper body routine...simply b/c I am hard headed and want to bulkup up top and then I will get back to legs next cycle.
10 degree dumbell press 4 sets
Lat pull down 2 sets
Rows 2 sets
Shoulder press 3 sets
dumbell extention for triceps 2 sets
curls 2 sets
abs 2 sets
I have though about say dropping arms all together and doing say 5 sets for chest compound only 5 sets for back compound only and say 4 set of shoulders compound only say for a cycle and half or until first of next year. but I thought maybe I am getting into to much old school BB and away from HST
I was thinking this would still keep my volume of sets at around just 14 per week 3 times a week but this may be too much compound for CNS or maybe not?
What do you think?
P.S. I need to start eating more to grow i know but if I am already caring a little body fat say 10 % do I still need to bulkd or keep it like it is???
Thanks
To give you and idea JV of what my routine is I will post it. I am expirementing this time around with just upper body routine...simply b/c I am hard headed and want to bulkup up top and then I will get back to legs next cycle.
10 degree dumbell press 4 sets
Lat pull down 2 sets
Rows 2 sets
Shoulder press 3 sets
dumbell extention for triceps 2 sets
curls 2 sets
abs 2 sets
I have though about say dropping arms all together and doing say 5 sets for chest compound only 5 sets for back compound only and say 4 set of shoulders compound only say for a cycle and half or until first of next year. but I thought maybe I am getting into to much old school BB and away from HST
I was thinking this would still keep my volume of sets at around just 14 per week 3 times a week but this may be too much compound for CNS or maybe not?
What do you think?
P.S. I need to start eating more to grow i know but if I am already caring a little body fat say 10 % do I still need to bulkd or keep it like it is???
Thanks
jvroig
Super Moderator
[b said:
I think that looks like a good plan.
As for the CNS, I wouldn't know. Again, it's not just about the total number of reps/sets that matters most, it's how demanding / exhausting the exercises are. Also, what may be enough to land me to CNS fatigue may not be enough for you. It would be better to be cautious if you are unsure you can take the increase, so try doing your routine with no increase in the sets first. See how it feels for you. If after a week or so you think you are recovering fast enough and are still up for a little increase (especially when you are still in the lighter phases), then please go ahaed and increase the volume a little. If ever you find that it's becoming too tiring, or you become very irritable all the time, maybe try decreasing the volume a bit, especially if the weights are getting heavier already.
And 10% bodyfat isn't much. You are far from being "fat", so don't worry about it. And if somebody calls you fat, flex your biceps to show him your guns and tell him "If I'm just fat, why do I have this incredibly muscled guns that I can use to choke the life out of your scrawny neck?"
Regards,
-JV
In addition to JV's post:
The way I think about compounds and iso's, loading and stretch is this:
*I need to create a certain amount of tension in the muscle, leading to microtrauma, protein synthesis etc. I need a load to do this.
*The most tension is created by using a compound - I know I can't do 100kg DB curls
*If this load isn't enough, then I need to use an isolation as well.
*If I use a stretch point exercise - flyes, skulls etc - I can accomplish the tension required, with a reduced load.
*Because of RBE, I don't want to use every technique right away. I want to use them as they become needed to continue growth.
The way I think about compounds and iso's, loading and stretch is this:
*I need to create a certain amount of tension in the muscle, leading to microtrauma, protein synthesis etc. I need a load to do this.
*The most tension is created by using a compound - I know I can't do 100kg DB curls
*If this load isn't enough, then I need to use an isolation as well.
*If I use a stretch point exercise - flyes, skulls etc - I can accomplish the tension required, with a reduced load.
*Because of RBE, I don't want to use every technique right away. I want to use them as they become needed to continue growth.
9to5lifter
New Member
I'd like to second what JV said (and Dan, in another post) about isolation exercises near the start of the cycle. I'm currently extending the 5's for a week or two (by continuing with 5 RM) before going into negatives. I feel that my arms now (especially biceps) receive a fair amount of work by the heavy compounds. Since there is no much room for progression with the arm isolation stuff, I'm thinking of dropping them altogether and concentrating on the compounds by adding one or two sets to each exercise (or adding another exercise with good stretch).
At this point, more direct arm work through isolations causes some "irritation" in the joints (especially elbows with skullcrushers). This is probably due to too much volume, as I have no such problems with the compounds yet.
So, I'd say use arm isolation exercises when things are light and arms do not receive much work from the compounds only, and during the heavy stuff (post-5's, negatives) concentrate on the heavy compounds. This approach offers the following benefits;
1. Healthier and "fresh" joints allowing more room for progression as mentioned above
2. More time for some extra volume with the compounds now that the weight progression slows down (and some metabolic work too)
This is contrary to the popular belief that isolations should be added near the end of the cycle. Maybe isolations for large bodyparts (chest, back etc) to allow for some extra volume and/or metabolic work, but not for arms, as they already work hard enough. When things are VERY heavy (post-5's, negatives), I believe only the heavy compounds are sufficient (and there is some meaning in doing them).
Just sharing my personal experience during this cycle. Comments are welcome.
At this point, more direct arm work through isolations causes some "irritation" in the joints (especially elbows with skullcrushers). This is probably due to too much volume, as I have no such problems with the compounds yet.
So, I'd say use arm isolation exercises when things are light and arms do not receive much work from the compounds only, and during the heavy stuff (post-5's, negatives) concentrate on the heavy compounds. This approach offers the following benefits;
1. Healthier and "fresh" joints allowing more room for progression as mentioned above
2. More time for some extra volume with the compounds now that the weight progression slows down (and some metabolic work too)
This is contrary to the popular belief that isolations should be added near the end of the cycle. Maybe isolations for large bodyparts (chest, back etc) to allow for some extra volume and/or metabolic work, but not for arms, as they already work hard enough. When things are VERY heavy (post-5's, negatives), I believe only the heavy compounds are sufficient (and there is some meaning in doing them).
Just sharing my personal experience during this cycle. Comments are welcome.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Thanks guys yeah the bodyfat was recently test at 8.7% but I barely have the abs I wish I had i guess it is from all the years of not working them. They are coming along better now that I have started training them with 2 sets day and with weighted abs. Just would think at that bodyfat they would show better...but maybe I didnt diet down correctly who knows???
I am going to try keep the diet somewhat in check now...no fried foods but hey if I want a quarter pounder i am going to get one i figured with winter time coming and adding just compounds I should not be to concerned with the not so clean eating and maybe the extra calories will help the compound routine add some muscle.
Thanks again guys for the response!
I am going to try keep the diet somewhat in check now...no fried foods but hey if I want a quarter pounder i am going to get one i figured with winter time coming and adding just compounds I should not be to concerned with the not so clean eating and maybe the extra calories will help the compound routine add some muscle.
Thanks again guys for the response!
jvroig
Super Moderator
Hey
Joe, 8.7%? Whoa. You are ripped! And to think you were complaining about bodyfat - shame on you!
See, everything's turning out all right! As for the abs, well, while the biggest battle is in the bodyfat, they also do need some training. As for the diet, clean or not, as long as you manage somehow to keep to the number of calories you want, and you don't screw up your protein-carb-fat ratio, then you are ok. Even if you somehow ate only quarter pounders and Popeye's fried chicken and biscuits but still managed to get your target ratio of (just an example) 15% protein, 55% carbs, and 30% fat, then you are still ok. What you should bother more about are "bad" stuff like saturated fat, trans fats, etc. - not because they will make you fatter, but simply for health reasons. You wouldn't want to be a 30 year old hulk look alike and then suffer a heart attack just as teenage girls are fawning over you, would you?
Regards,
-JV
Joe, 8.7%? Whoa. You are ripped!
And to think you were complaining about bodyfat - shame on you!
Regards,
-JV