Joe.Muscle
Active Member
hang in there big guy!
I can't wait to see you at 190!
I can't wait to see you at 190!
2 month SD and return to BB
- Thread starter quadancer
- Start date
Great squatting Quad, especially as you felt like pooh! Seeing you are cutting I do think you have to watch that you don't do too much volume and end up in a more catabolic state than you otherwise might. But you know that already and I think what you did was fine considering it's you and you didn't do piles of deads, rows and bench afterwards.
I think I'm going to make 190 my target to reach. That means I need to drop 30lb. I'll give it around 6 months and see how far I get by then. Hate the thought of a long cut but I look forward to the results and to bulking afterwards.
I think I'm going to make 190 my target to reach. That means I need to drop 30lb. I'll give it around 6 months and see how far I get by then. Hate the thought of a long cut but I look forward to the results and to bulking afterwards.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I think I'm going to make 190 my target to reach. That means I need to drop 30lb. I'll give it around 6 months and see how far I get by then. Hate the thought of a long cut but I look forward to the results and to bulking afterwards. </div>
Long cuts may be worth it if you are strict with your diet afterwards... at least I hope so. I would rather be lean and strong than chunky and a little bit stronger!
Long cuts may be worth it if you are strict with your diet afterwards... at least I hope so. I would rather be lean and strong than chunky and a little bit stronger!
Wow, these pics are a lot of work...anyway, from the end of the bulk to today is shown - my arms are dropping off and that bugs me a lot. I won't go much further, but I'll stick a little longer. I have no chest, so this will become my new focus, as I try to find out what works for me. The size of the cut pic is larger, so looks better than it should compared to the bulker.
I look younger because last night was my lady's 50th. There was a big dinner party from our church for her and 3 others that age, so night before last, she dumps a bottle of what she said was "conditioner" on my head while I was sitting here. Guess what it actually was?
I was pissed.
Bench 225x5, 275x4, 245x8 weaker still.
Shrugs 315x10, 405x10, 405x8 losing ground here too.
Decline bench light 245x6, 245x7
Two pump sets incline flyes. Done.
I look younger because last night was my lady's 50th. There was a big dinner party from our church for her and 3 others that age, so night before last, she dumps a bottle of what she said was "conditioner" on my head while I was sitting here. Guess what it actually was?
I was pissed.
Bench 225x5, 275x4, 245x8 weaker still.
Shrugs 315x10, 405x10, 405x8 losing ground here too.
Decline bench light 245x6, 245x7
Two pump sets incline flyes. Done.
Another shot just for fun - if the gut would go first, I'd be bulking allready. I usually don't show fat all over, but this pic looks like I'm pretty smooth: a bit blurry for some reason. As I said, arms are shrinking, but I'm surprised at the pecs - they don't even look like I work out. Now looking at the bulk-cut pics side by side, I don't see that much difference at all. Should I be bulking fatter and cutting leaner? Low test makes life hard with this; the tendency to stay near maintenance is strong.
After this cut, I'm thinking of doing 1 or 2 of several things - A 'drol bulking cycle with high cals but lowered carbs (not too low), some higher workload at first or volume or both, and O&G's method of using 3 exersizes at one set each per muscle group, ESPECIALLY chest. I'm impressed at his stats even tho he hasn't posted pics. He's doing something right...well, along with HRT. I'll just use the 'drol, since I have some left.
After this cut, I'm thinking of doing 1 or 2 of several things - A 'drol bulking cycle with high cals but lowered carbs (not too low), some higher workload at first or volume or both, and O&G's method of using 3 exersizes at one set each per muscle group, ESPECIALLY chest. I'm impressed at his stats even tho he hasn't posted pics. He's doing something right...well, along with HRT. I'll just use the 'drol, since I have some left.
I think it's time for a deload. I feel like crap, I'm not losing any more fat although I'll admit I don't count anything: I eat by appetite and repetition, so this may be skewed. I've lifted heavy trying to keep beef in the cut, but I'm having to take longer and longer between workouts. Thermos don't work anymore, and carbing up didn't either, so I guess it's time for a break and return to HST.
O&G has helped explain his routine to me and I'll be trying something like it or copy it. I'd like the variety for a change and it fits in with not benching for a while. I suppose I'll just eat maintenance until I hit my gym again.
O&G has helped explain his routine to me and I'll be trying something like it or copy it. I'd like the variety for a change and it fits in with not benching for a while. I suppose I'll just eat maintenance until I hit my gym again.
I
imported_fearfactory
Guest
lookin' good quad. love the hair! I've enjoyed following your log, very inspiring. it's great to see folks stick with a plan and reach goals.
You are correct sir, on both counts. Flat bench every workout has put my shoulders back in the hurt locker (now feeling better on SD) and O&G is setting me up with his routine, which will include inclined db work. They are about the only thing that ever brought my pecs up at all. I'll be posting the plan after his next PM to my latest questions. Since we're the same age group and it's working for him, I feel like he has found a balance for us ol' doofers. Also, I've never tried one set per exersize the way he sets it up. I did do 13 exersizes with HST at first tho...I dang sure wasn't doing 2 sets back then. I'm still trying to figure out his frequency too, since it's a 4-way split.
quad, I think the cut is an improvement. As weight lifters we all get discouraged when we can't perform as well in the gym. However, you need to decide if you care more about actually moving the weight in the gym or looking like you can move the weight in the gym. If you care more about looks than you are on the right track with your cut! If you care more about how much weight you can move then by all means eat eat eat.
PS - The biggest problem with your cut is the loss of your mustache. What were you thinking?!?
PS - The biggest problem with your cut is the loss of your mustache. What were you thinking?!?
POSITIONING FOR PECS
by Eric Broser
Although I pride myself on having a balanced and even physique, I would still have to say that my pecs are my “standout” body part. In the offseason, I generally wear a size 54 jacket, and only a 34 pant. My jacket size is mostly due to the mass and thickness of my chest more than anything else (which makes me wonder what size jacket Ronnie Coleman or Marcus Ruhl must wear...WOW). Whenever people see me with my shirt off, the majority of questions and comments I get are in regards to my pecs. “How much do you bench? How do you find shirts? Wow, your chest is bigger than my wife’s...and she has implants!!” But I digress...
The interesting thing about the fact that my chest is now my best body part is that when I started training, it was probably my worst! While I only weighed a paltry 125 lbs at a height of 5'11" the first time I touched a barbell, you could still see at least some muscular development in my arms, shoulders, and back. However, my chest was literally flat! I looked like an ironing board with nipples!
So, how did I get my chest to go from minuscule to massive...tiny to titanic... pathetic to powerful? Did I have a special, secret exercise taught to me by aliens from the planet Schwarzeneggeron? Nope. I just did the basics like bench presses, incline presses, flyes, dips, and pullovers. Did I have access to an experimental protein powder developed by Eastern Bloc scientists that caused site specific protein synthesis in the fast twitch fibers of the pectorals? Nope. I just used the same old whey, casein, and egg powders like everyone else.
“Great Eric...enough with the comedy. Just tell us your secret!”
Ok, it’s all about “positioning” my iron-addicted friends! “Positioning? What the heck are you talking about now?” Let me illustrate my point by telling you about a friend I used to train with years ago. Every time we would go through an intense chest workout, doing the same exact exercises, sets, and reps, he would tell me that his shoulders and triceps got a tremendous pump, but that his chest felt like it had hardly been worked. Within the next day or two he would again complain that he was sore as could be in his anterior delts and inner triceps, but felt nothing in his pecs. For me it was the exact opposite! My chest always got incredibly pumped and sore from training it, while my shoulders and triceps seemed barely touched.
Over the years that we trained together my chest continued to grow and grow, while his chest never changed much. However, his shoulders and triceps were developing quite nicely. The strange thing about my friend’s pec-dilemma was that he trained with great focus and concentration; used very tight and strict form; and progressed very regularly in terms of weight lifted in each of his chest exercises. He and I eventually chalked it up his lousy pecs to genetics. We felt that he simply did not have the genetic capacity to build a thick, massive chest.
Then one day, just for the fun of it, the two of us decided to videotape a chest training session when we were both nearing a competition we were preparing for. That day we did bench presses, incline dumbbell presses, flat flyes, and cable crossovers. We did a pretty complete job of taping all of the exercises from a variety of angles and heights. Later on, when we were watching the tape I began to notice something interesting in the way he was performing each of his exercises...something I never really caught onto before while acting as his spotter. On every movement, as he reached the top of the rep, his shoulders were ending up much higher than his pecs. This was making his chest basically concave at the point of contraction. In addition, he was also locking out very hard at the top...but you could see that he was not really locking out the rep by flexing his pecs, but his tris. However, when I examined my own form, I could see that my ribcage remained high throughout each set, while my shoulders stayed down, pressed into the bench.
My friend was effectively turning each of his pec exercises into shoulder and triceps exercises, while I was optimally stressing the chest with each movement. This is what I am talking about when I mention the word “positioning” in regard to chest training. As soon as I pointed out these “form flaws” to my friend he immediately set out to correct it. During his first chest workout using improved body positioning, he could feel a pump and burn in his chest like never before. He also started getting sore in his pecs, which is something he really never experienced. Within a few months his chest started taking on new fullness and shape, and began to quickly match up to his excellent delts and arms.
I urge any of you out there that feel your pecs to be lagging behind to have someone with a good eye examine your form on all of your chest movements. Every day that I am at the gym I see dozens of people with the same form flaws that my friend used to have. What people need to realize is that building a big chest is not as simple as lying on a bench...unracking a bar...and pushing it from point A to point B. No! Each chest exercise, whether it be a bench press, incline press, dip, flye, or crossover requires the exercise to begin before ever even moving the weight!
Here’s how to start properly POSITIONING FOR PECS:
1-lay down on the bench and set your feet firmly on the floor
2-arch your lower back slightly
3-raise your ribcage up high
4-squeeze your scapulae together
5-pull your shoulders downward and push them into the bench
*These same principles apply to dips, crossovers, and seated press and flye machines as well, with the exception of rule one (although the feet should always firmly be planted).
Now you are in position to achieve maximum pectoral recruitment with far less delt and triceps interference. The key, however, is to keep your body in this position throughout the set. It is not enough to start this way and then slowly break back into bad habits as the set progresses. You must learn to “lock”your body in this position and stay there!
Trust me when I tell you that if you are not used to performing your chest exercises this manner, it will feel awfully strange at first, and you will probably not be able to use the same weights as you normally do. However, with time, you will get used to POSITIONING FOR PECS, and it will become second nature, like driving a car. Also, you will eventually work up to the same poundage as you were using previously. The greatest reward will be the new growth you will quickly begin to see in your chest!
by Eric Broser
Although I pride myself on having a balanced and even physique, I would still have to say that my pecs are my “standout” body part. In the offseason, I generally wear a size 54 jacket, and only a 34 pant. My jacket size is mostly due to the mass and thickness of my chest more than anything else (which makes me wonder what size jacket Ronnie Coleman or Marcus Ruhl must wear...WOW). Whenever people see me with my shirt off, the majority of questions and comments I get are in regards to my pecs. “How much do you bench? How do you find shirts? Wow, your chest is bigger than my wife’s...and she has implants!!” But I digress...
The interesting thing about the fact that my chest is now my best body part is that when I started training, it was probably my worst! While I only weighed a paltry 125 lbs at a height of 5'11" the first time I touched a barbell, you could still see at least some muscular development in my arms, shoulders, and back. However, my chest was literally flat! I looked like an ironing board with nipples!
So, how did I get my chest to go from minuscule to massive...tiny to titanic... pathetic to powerful? Did I have a special, secret exercise taught to me by aliens from the planet Schwarzeneggeron? Nope. I just did the basics like bench presses, incline presses, flyes, dips, and pullovers. Did I have access to an experimental protein powder developed by Eastern Bloc scientists that caused site specific protein synthesis in the fast twitch fibers of the pectorals? Nope. I just used the same old whey, casein, and egg powders like everyone else.
“Great Eric...enough with the comedy. Just tell us your secret!”
Ok, it’s all about “positioning” my iron-addicted friends! “Positioning? What the heck are you talking about now?” Let me illustrate my point by telling you about a friend I used to train with years ago. Every time we would go through an intense chest workout, doing the same exact exercises, sets, and reps, he would tell me that his shoulders and triceps got a tremendous pump, but that his chest felt like it had hardly been worked. Within the next day or two he would again complain that he was sore as could be in his anterior delts and inner triceps, but felt nothing in his pecs. For me it was the exact opposite! My chest always got incredibly pumped and sore from training it, while my shoulders and triceps seemed barely touched.
Over the years that we trained together my chest continued to grow and grow, while his chest never changed much. However, his shoulders and triceps were developing quite nicely. The strange thing about my friend’s pec-dilemma was that he trained with great focus and concentration; used very tight and strict form; and progressed very regularly in terms of weight lifted in each of his chest exercises. He and I eventually chalked it up his lousy pecs to genetics. We felt that he simply did not have the genetic capacity to build a thick, massive chest.
Then one day, just for the fun of it, the two of us decided to videotape a chest training session when we were both nearing a competition we were preparing for. That day we did bench presses, incline dumbbell presses, flat flyes, and cable crossovers. We did a pretty complete job of taping all of the exercises from a variety of angles and heights. Later on, when we were watching the tape I began to notice something interesting in the way he was performing each of his exercises...something I never really caught onto before while acting as his spotter. On every movement, as he reached the top of the rep, his shoulders were ending up much higher than his pecs. This was making his chest basically concave at the point of contraction. In addition, he was also locking out very hard at the top...but you could see that he was not really locking out the rep by flexing his pecs, but his tris. However, when I examined my own form, I could see that my ribcage remained high throughout each set, while my shoulders stayed down, pressed into the bench.
My friend was effectively turning each of his pec exercises into shoulder and triceps exercises, while I was optimally stressing the chest with each movement. This is what I am talking about when I mention the word “positioning” in regard to chest training. As soon as I pointed out these “form flaws” to my friend he immediately set out to correct it. During his first chest workout using improved body positioning, he could feel a pump and burn in his chest like never before. He also started getting sore in his pecs, which is something he really never experienced. Within a few months his chest started taking on new fullness and shape, and began to quickly match up to his excellent delts and arms.
I urge any of you out there that feel your pecs to be lagging behind to have someone with a good eye examine your form on all of your chest movements. Every day that I am at the gym I see dozens of people with the same form flaws that my friend used to have. What people need to realize is that building a big chest is not as simple as lying on a bench...unracking a bar...and pushing it from point A to point B. No! Each chest exercise, whether it be a bench press, incline press, dip, flye, or crossover requires the exercise to begin before ever even moving the weight!
Here’s how to start properly POSITIONING FOR PECS:
1-lay down on the bench and set your feet firmly on the floor
2-arch your lower back slightly
3-raise your ribcage up high
4-squeeze your scapulae together
5-pull your shoulders downward and push them into the bench
*These same principles apply to dips, crossovers, and seated press and flye machines as well, with the exception of rule one (although the feet should always firmly be planted).
Now you are in position to achieve maximum pectoral recruitment with far less delt and triceps interference. The key, however, is to keep your body in this position throughout the set. It is not enough to start this way and then slowly break back into bad habits as the set progresses. You must learn to “lock”your body in this position and stay there!
Trust me when I tell you that if you are not used to performing your chest exercises this manner, it will feel awfully strange at first, and you will probably not be able to use the same weights as you normally do. However, with time, you will get used to POSITIONING FOR PECS, and it will become second nature, like driving a car. Also, you will eventually work up to the same poundage as you were using previously. The greatest reward will be the new growth you will quickly begin to see in your chest!
Eric makes some good points which I'm pretty certain Quad is already aware of and practicing. Very similar to bench form Rippetoe advises on. Quad and I both suffer(ed) from shoulder/AC joint issues. Benching with scapular adduction throughout a set has really helped me to minimise discomfort and has allowed me to bench my best ever poundages. Same for you Quad (re discomfort)?
Yep.
OTOH, that was a great post Fazzer, and I'll be checking to see if I'm breaking my form from the shoulders when I get back. I know I start out right, and I did get up to 345lbs with it, but like your buddy, I never feel my pecs. I've concentrated on lats, arch (such as I can do), and scapulae. Wasn't focused on the shoulders.
One thing we've never really talked about and I admit disappointment here was how you should or have to back off weights on a cut, while trying to keep heavy as you can. But the joints decided SD for me. Maybe if I'd backed off earlier, I'd still be cutting instead of maintenance on SD.
OTOH, that was a great post Fazzer, and I'll be checking to see if I'm breaking my form from the shoulders when I get back. I know I start out right, and I did get up to 345lbs with it, but like your buddy, I never feel my pecs. I've concentrated on lats, arch (such as I can do), and scapulae. Wasn't focused on the shoulders.
One thing we've never really talked about and I admit disappointment here was how you should or have to back off weights on a cut, while trying to keep heavy as you can. But the joints decided SD for me. Maybe if I'd backed off earlier, I'd still be cutting instead of maintenance on SD.
<div>
(quadancer @ May 28 2008,10:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yep.
OTOH, that was a great post Fazzer, and I'll be checking to see if I'm breaking my form from the shoulders when I get back. I know I start out right, and I did get up to 345lbs with it, but like your buddy, I never feel my pecs. I've concentrated on lats, arch (such as I can do), and scapulae. Wasn't focused on the shoulders.
One thing we've never really talked about and I admit disappointment here was how you should or have to back off weights on a cut, while trying to keep heavy as you can. But the joints decided SD for me. Maybe if I'd backed off earlier, I'd still be cutting instead of maintenance on SD.</div>
not been called fazzer for yrs
and you spelt it correct
(quadancer @ May 28 2008,10:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yep.
OTOH, that was a great post Fazzer, and I'll be checking to see if I'm breaking my form from the shoulders when I get back. I know I start out right, and I did get up to 345lbs with it, but like your buddy, I never feel my pecs. I've concentrated on lats, arch (such as I can do), and scapulae. Wasn't focused on the shoulders.
One thing we've never really talked about and I admit disappointment here was how you should or have to back off weights on a cut, while trying to keep heavy as you can. But the joints decided SD for me. Maybe if I'd backed off earlier, I'd still be cutting instead of maintenance on SD.</div>
not been called fazzer for yrs
9to5lifter
New Member
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">but like your buddy, I never feel my pecs.</div>
Like you, I think I have been bench pressing with my shoulders for far too long. Eric's suggestions are pretty much in line with Rippetoe's advice in Starting Strength and this is what I'm working on at the moment. I believe I start out more or less in the correct position, but I end up pushing with my shoulders again. It seems that bringing your shoulder blades together (and remaining fixed in that position) is crucial for optimal involvement of the chest. I was glad to hear that it helped Lol too.
Like you, I think I have been bench pressing with my shoulders for far too long. Eric's suggestions are pretty much in line with Rippetoe's advice in Starting Strength and this is what I'm working on at the moment. I believe I start out more or less in the correct position, but I end up pushing with my shoulders again. It seems that bringing your shoulder blades together (and remaining fixed in that position) is crucial for optimal involvement of the chest. I was glad to hear that it helped Lol too.