A New Idea About Hst?

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Mikael Eriksson, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. Actually I tried the original HST. I could not increase the weights when that time came. And I think like this: How do you know that my variation does not work if you have not tried it? My current program (which I invented myself) enabled me to raise the weight. Maybe I'll get back here with an update when I have tried it further. So far, it's the only thing that has ever worked for me.
  2. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Stating that someone can't know whether a program will work unless they try it is a fallacious argument. You really should try to avoid those. For example, I don't have to drink a quart of bleach to know that it is harmful, or get my head chopped off to know whether that would cause my death or not. We don't need to personally experience everything to know whether it is a good idea or not. That's what research is for. We read up on the research others have already done and use that to formulate an idea of whether something will work or not.

    For example, with your proposed routine, we can look at research already done on muscle growth. Ideally, we would look at many different studies. Luckily, someone already did that for us. That's what Bryan did when he came up with HST. If that's not current enough for you, then Wernbom's paper analyzed a ton of studies. His paper pretty much shows that a routine as you laid out won't do much since it doesn't come anywhere near meeting the minimum volume threshold needed for appreciable growth.
    adpowah likes this.
  3. They did a study with 500 persons, using the same bodybuilding program. The most successful ones increased their strength with 250 %, and their muscles got 60 % bigger. Pretty much what you would expect, right? But wait, the least successful ones increased their strength with 0 %, and their muscles got 2 % smaller. Yes, that's right, their muscles shrinked from training... Other studies has shown that for some people, training makes them weaker.

    Thus, YOU cannot know whether a program will work or not unless YOU try it. It's a galaxy of difference between drinking bleach/getting your head chopped off, and training.

    And by the way, maybe it was not clear (and in that case it's my fault), but my goal with the first "new idea about HST" was not to build size, but strength (although I think it would have worked for size too, but let's limit it to strength). NOW, would you agree with me that for STRENGTH, it might work?
  4. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    @Mikael Eriksson Completely unrelated but can I ask what other languages do you speak?
  5. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Please site the study showing that training makes some people weaker when calorie intake is sufficient.
  6. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Abort, brother.
  7. Swedish, my first language, and a little spanish. Why?
  8. I never memorize WHERE I read something, only WHAT it says.
    And you're missing the point. The point is that everyone is different, and thus YOU have to try a training program to know if it works for YOU.
  9. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Superficially different, fundamentally the same (at least, in this context).
    Totentanz likes this.
  10. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    You come across as super arrogant but I figured it was a bit of a language barrier instead.
  11. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Some of the best studies and strength lifters come out of the Scandinavian area.

    I would love to access that study you summarized. Can't you backtrack and find it?
  12. It's hard to not sound arrogant when no one gets you, right?
  13. Sorry, I've tried several times in the past, and I could not find it.
  14. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    The reason no one 'gets you' is and correct me if I am wrong your proposed routine was to start at 75% of your 1 rep max with a single rep so if your bench press 1 rep max is 100 kgs then you would do a single at 75 kgs followed the next workout with a single at 80kgs, next workout a single at 85kgs etc, honestly why do you think you will elicit hypertrophy or strength with this protocol. I now understand you are trying to gain strength but if you going to do singles then you will need to be a hell of at lot closer to your 1 rep max than doing a single at your 10rm (75%), a single at your 8rm (80%), a single at your 5rm (85%) etc
  15. Yes, as much as the 5's and 10's and 15's. Bryan says that you don't have to be close to your max, you only have to raise the weight. That means that when you start for example your 5's, your 5RM is 50 kg. But you start it with 37 kg, and you get results. You do ONLY 5, although you could do 10. My idea used the same pronciple, but with heavier weights and 1's.

    As far as I have understood Bryan, there is something magical about ADDING weight, even if it is submaximal.
  16. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Believe me doing a 'single' rep at 75% of your 1rm is not the same as doing 15 reps at 75% of your 15, 10 or 5 rep maxes but if you want to believe that it is there appears to be nothing any of us can say to change your mind.

    Why not post the routine that you did with the exercises and number of sets for further critique.
  17. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    From the HST eBook:
    Adding weight is increasing the intensity to create a more potent stimulus. If you want to train singles, you can but you will need more volume. I used single training to go from a 405 to a 500lb (ugly) deadlift. To find a good volume for myself on singles I did 4-6 reps per workout in the 80%+ range and attempted to break my PR each workout 4 times a week. Deadlifting was really the only lift I focused on.

    Now you can't yolo-only-liftheavy-4-evah, you are going to build up a lot of neural fatigue that you won't face in the 15-10 rep zone. Also its harder on your joints and more prone to acute injuries. Finally, it just doesn't induce a ton of hypertrophy. It is mainly neural adaptation and skill increases because of the increased specificity.

    As soon as I went to a more balance routine my physique clearly improved.

    Finally you will need a program that includes both strength training and hypertrophy training, I would suggest DUP (just the vanilla from the study) assuming your nutrition and recovery are on point.
  18. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I would probably give a more thorough conjugate/concurrent approach a go.

    Not sold on dup in it's vanilla format.
  19. Ok, thanks for all the input. Maybe I'll post my current program and results here in the future. I just want a little more "mileage" with it first.
  20. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Why are you so hesitant to post your routine?

    There are many on here that will assist if you will give them the information, it may seem that we are shooting you down but I can assure you we are not doing that. We just want you to succeed with HST by doing it the correct way rather than altering it too much and not getting the results you want.

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