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imported_drpierredebs
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what is your body fat %
"Eating fat makes you fat"
- Thread starter _Simon_
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This has been looked at already.
"The bicyclist subjects of this study noted a modest decline in their energy level while on training rides during the first week of the Inuit diet, after which subjective performance was reasonably restored except for their sprint capability, which remained constrained during the period of carbohydrate restriction."
"Both observational and prospectively designed studies support the conclusion that submaximal endurance performance can be sustained despite the virtual exclusion of carbohydrate from the human diet. Clearly this result does not automatically follow the casual implementation of dietary carbohydrate restriction, however, as careful attention to time for keto-adaptation, mineral nutriture, and constraint of the daily protein dose is required. Contradictory results in the scientific literature can be explained by the lack of attention to these lessons learned (and for the most part now forgotten) by the cultures that traditionally lived by hunting. Therapeutic use of ketogenic diets should not require constraint of most forms of physical labor or recreational activity, with the one caveat that anaerobic (ie, weight lifting or sprint) performance is limited by the low muscle glycogen levels induced by a ketogenic diet, and this would strongly discourage its use under most conditions of competitive athletics."
from
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2
Ketogenic diets and physical performance
Stephen D Phinney
"The bicyclist subjects of this study noted a modest decline in their energy level while on training rides during the first week of the Inuit diet, after which subjective performance was reasonably restored except for their sprint capability, which remained constrained during the period of carbohydrate restriction."
"Both observational and prospectively designed studies support the conclusion that submaximal endurance performance can be sustained despite the virtual exclusion of carbohydrate from the human diet. Clearly this result does not automatically follow the casual implementation of dietary carbohydrate restriction, however, as careful attention to time for keto-adaptation, mineral nutriture, and constraint of the daily protein dose is required. Contradictory results in the scientific literature can be explained by the lack of attention to these lessons learned (and for the most part now forgotten) by the cultures that traditionally lived by hunting. Therapeutic use of ketogenic diets should not require constraint of most forms of physical labor or recreational activity, with the one caveat that anaerobic (ie, weight lifting or sprint) performance is limited by the low muscle glycogen levels induced by a ketogenic diet, and this would strongly discourage its use under most conditions of competitive athletics."
from
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2
Ketogenic diets and physical performance
Stephen D Phinney
Martin is 5'4" and weighs 320 lbs. His BF % is well over 40. He is merely compiling this research for his future endeavors in dieting, health, and fitness. I saw a youtube video of him snorting lines of suger with cholocate frosting smeared all over his face. When he realized the camera was one he got sooo pissed but was unable to get off the chair to shut it off.
TunnelRat
Active Member
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(soflsun @ May 25 2008,5:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Martin is 5'4" and weighs 320 lbs. His BF % is well over 40. He is merely compiling this research for his future endeavors in dieting, health, and fitness. I saw a youtube video of him snorting lines of suger with cholocate frosting smeared all over his face. When he realized the camera was one he got sooo pissed but was unable to get off the chair to shut it off.
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Yer gonna burn in hell, soflsun...
(soflsun @ May 25 2008,5:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Martin is 5'4" and weighs 320 lbs. His BF % is well over 40. He is merely compiling this research for his future endeavors in dieting, health, and fitness. I saw a youtube video of him snorting lines of suger with cholocate frosting smeared all over his face. When he realized the camera was one he got sooo pissed but was unable to get off the chair to shut it off.
Yer gonna burn in hell, soflsun...
stevejones
Member
<div>
(Martin Levac @ May 25 2008,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There is a period of adaptation from a high carb diet to a no/low carb high fat diet. It can take upward of 20 weeks. Or it can be very short as stevejones has reported in his experiment log.</div>
Well, I think I might have spoken too soon there. I feel like I'm far from adapting right now. I'm losing plenty of fat and have energy, but I've still got serious diarrhea. Two weeks straight of projectile bombing, and it isn't olive oil because I haven't taken any oils for a week now.
(Martin Levac @ May 25 2008,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There is a period of adaptation from a high carb diet to a no/low carb high fat diet. It can take upward of 20 weeks. Or it can be very short as stevejones has reported in his experiment log.</div>
Well, I think I might have spoken too soon there. I feel like I'm far from adapting right now. I'm losing plenty of fat and have energy, but I've still got serious diarrhea. Two weeks straight of projectile bombing, and it isn't olive oil because I haven't taken any oils for a week now.
scientific muscle
New Member
Carbs are toxic bro, but they get you really high!
scientific muscle
New Member
Careful not to get dehydrated steve. That can't be healthy at all what you are going through.
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(Martin Levac @ May 26 2008,6:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That made me laugh too. 8% bodyfat is fat for a cyclist.</div>
So not only do you have no idea about metabolism, digestion and general physiology, you have no idea about bodyfat percentages as well
(Martin Levac @ May 26 2008,6:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That made me laugh too. 8% bodyfat is fat for a cyclist.</div>
So not only do you have no idea about metabolism, digestion and general physiology, you have no idea about bodyfat percentages as well
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">hey martin, what is your body fat -%? </div>
We tried that with the pictures he won't post. He'll say that we're wrong for looking at him as an example, and our opinions would be against him regardless of his achievements.
Right Martin?
Matter of fact, I'm beginning to think this is a little stick-figure of a guy who is in here when he's not playing WarCraft or Dungeons and Dragons.
Served.
We tried that with the pictures he won't post. He'll say that we're wrong for looking at him as an example, and our opinions would be against him regardless of his achievements.
Right Martin?
Matter of fact, I'm beginning to think this is a little stick-figure of a guy who is in here when he's not playing WarCraft or Dungeons and Dragons.
Served.
I
imported_drpierredebs
Guest
<div>
(stevejones @ May 25 2008,6:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Martin Levac @ May 25 2008,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There is a period of adaptation from a high carb diet to a no/low carb high fat diet. It can take upward of 20 weeks. Or it can be very short as stevejones has reported in his experiment log.</div>
Well, I think I might have spoken too soon there. I feel like I'm far from adapting right now. I'm losing plenty of fat and have energy, but I've still got serious diarrhea. Two weeks straight of projectile bombing, and it isn't olive oil because I haven't taken any oils for a week now.</div>
R u getting enough sodium?
(stevejones @ May 25 2008,6:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Martin Levac @ May 25 2008,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There is a period of adaptation from a high carb diet to a no/low carb high fat diet. It can take upward of 20 weeks. Or it can be very short as stevejones has reported in his experiment log.</div>
Well, I think I might have spoken too soon there. I feel like I'm far from adapting right now. I'm losing plenty of fat and have energy, but I've still got serious diarrhea. Two weeks straight of projectile bombing, and it isn't olive oil because I haven't taken any oils for a week now.</div>
R u getting enough sodium?
stevejones
Member
<div>
(drpierredebs @ May 26 2008,12:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">R u getting enough sodium?</div>
I'm living on bacon, hamburger, packaged salmon, eggs and cheese. I get tons of sodium and zero fiber.
(drpierredebs @ May 26 2008,12:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">R u getting enough sodium?</div>
I'm living on bacon, hamburger, packaged salmon, eggs and cheese. I get tons of sodium and zero fiber.
I
imported_drpierredebs
Guest
okay. eat a 250 g bag of pistachios and you´ll get your fiber-but you will also get some carbos. otherwise, you´ll have to deal with the squirts. But be aware when you have reached your desired body fat with no carb, as soon as you start eating carbs, they will get stored. And the studies with Inuit diets were eucaloric and even functioning at negative energy balance. I am not sure if no carb is your new permanent nutritional protocol.
When I get to work in a n hour or so, I will scan in some pages from "the text book of work physiology" were it clearly shows that unless one is a three-toed sloth, no carbs makes no sense.
No carbs and a keto-genic diet may have a therapeutic effect ( and this is not scientifically beyond doubt), but for the healthy people here who are constantly training with already low body fat percentages (<12%), it makes no sense if the intensity of your workouts get your heart rate above 75% your max heart rate. Even at aerobic levels, the body still burns carbs with an almost equal rate as fat.
You are not an Inuit which has grown up and evolved with very low carb. If you start going Inuit, even 5% carbs will negate the effects as shown in the the paper posted above.
If body fat is less then 10% and one is not amping up with T and other substance, it will be difficult to keep shedding fat. It is hard to get around low carb and negative energy balance as a sensible method to shed fat and maintain sanity. Here I am talking about Fat, Protein, and Carbs from veggies first followed by fruits. 20% carbs is low enough and avoids non-sense. Patience is required. I understand the desires of competitive body-builders, and if this is the case, T et.al., is often part of the equation.
I shed dropped almost 20 kg with low carb, but the carbs came exclusively from veggies and fruits. I ate no grain products.
When I get to work in a n hour or so, I will scan in some pages from "the text book of work physiology" were it clearly shows that unless one is a three-toed sloth, no carbs makes no sense.
No carbs and a keto-genic diet may have a therapeutic effect ( and this is not scientifically beyond doubt), but for the healthy people here who are constantly training with already low body fat percentages (<12%), it makes no sense if the intensity of your workouts get your heart rate above 75% your max heart rate. Even at aerobic levels, the body still burns carbs with an almost equal rate as fat.
You are not an Inuit which has grown up and evolved with very low carb. If you start going Inuit, even 5% carbs will negate the effects as shown in the the paper posted above.
If body fat is less then 10% and one is not amping up with T and other substance, it will be difficult to keep shedding fat. It is hard to get around low carb and negative energy balance as a sensible method to shed fat and maintain sanity. Here I am talking about Fat, Protein, and Carbs from veggies first followed by fruits. 20% carbs is low enough and avoids non-sense. Patience is required. I understand the desires of competitive body-builders, and if this is the case, T et.al., is often part of the equation.
I shed dropped almost 20 kg with low carb, but the carbs came exclusively from veggies and fruits. I ate no grain products.
I
imported_drpierredebs
Guest
<div>
(quadancer @ May 25 2008,7:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">hey martin, what is your body fat -%? </div>
We tried that with the pictures he won't post. He'll say that we're wrong for looking at him as an example, and our opinions would be against him regardless of his achievements.
Right Martin?
Matter of fact, I'm beginning to think this is a little stick-figure of a guy who is in here when he's not playing WarCraft or Dungeons and Dragons.
Served.</div>
I am beginning to think it may be less than 1% which would explain alot.
(quadancer @ May 25 2008,7:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">hey martin, what is your body fat -%? </div>
We tried that with the pictures he won't post. He'll say that we're wrong for looking at him as an example, and our opinions would be against him regardless of his achievements.
Right Martin?
Matter of fact, I'm beginning to think this is a little stick-figure of a guy who is in here when he's not playing WarCraft or Dungeons and Dragons.
Served.</div>
I am beginning to think it may be less than 1% which would explain alot.
I
imported_drpierredebs
Guest
What is the average body fat % of the Inuit? Is it below 10% I wonder.
beingisbeing
New Member
I'd love to hear more about avoiding grain based carbohydrates in favor of veggies and fruit...? We didn't want to open "the can of worms," but by my count, we did open a can of jerking off for the last 5 pages of thread. So why not start a productive discourse?
Martin Levac
New Member
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(stevejones @ May 25 2008,6:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Martin Levac @ May 25 2008,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There is a period of adaptation from a high carb diet to a no/low carb high fat diet. It can take upward of 20 weeks. Or it can be very short as stevejones has reported in his experiment log.</div>
Well, I think I might have spoken too soon there. I feel like I'm far from adapting right now. I'm losing plenty of fat and have energy, but I've still got serious diarrhea. Two weeks straight of projectile bombing, and it isn't olive oil because I haven't taken any oils for a week now.</div>
Do you supplement with anything? If you do, cut that out and see what gives. A zero carb diet contains all the nutrients we need and any supplementation can cause an overdose on something or cause a deficiency. For instance, an excess of vitamin C will affect the immune system which in turn will affect the bacterial population which in turn will affect the fungal spread such as candida which could cause the runs.
(stevejones @ May 25 2008,6:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Martin Levac @ May 25 2008,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There is a period of adaptation from a high carb diet to a no/low carb high fat diet. It can take upward of 20 weeks. Or it can be very short as stevejones has reported in his experiment log.</div>
Well, I think I might have spoken too soon there. I feel like I'm far from adapting right now. I'm losing plenty of fat and have energy, but I've still got serious diarrhea. Two weeks straight of projectile bombing, and it isn't olive oil because I haven't taken any oils for a week now.</div>
Do you supplement with anything? If you do, cut that out and see what gives. A zero carb diet contains all the nutrients we need and any supplementation can cause an overdose on something or cause a deficiency. For instance, an excess of vitamin C will affect the immune system which in turn will affect the bacterial population which in turn will affect the fungal spread such as candida which could cause the runs.
I
imported_drpierredebs
Guest
okay.
1. normally, grain based foods are energy dense and nutrient poor. veggies and fruits are the opposite. This is a big plus. think vitamins and minerals and fiber.
If you are no Carb, you have to eat fresh reindeer liver and the like and enough of it to get sufficient quantities of vit C for instance.
2. It is hard to eat enough veggies to get an overload of carbs and calories.
3. veggies are low glycemic and hence you don´t get the insulin rush. (the caveat is of course directly after training when you may want the insulin for growth and recovery, in this case fruits are the next best choice, followed by dried fruits which have a higher sugar content per weight.
4. Unless you just ran a marathom, very rarely does one need the 100 + grams of dense carbs coming from a plate of pasta or a pizza. Very often a Pasta dish as many eat for a meal or a pizza gives more than 150 grams of carbohydrates.
5. I won´t get into the Paleo explanation as I never really followed the strict paleo way of eating as I like sugar in my coffee, dark chocolate and salt on my eggs.
1. normally, grain based foods are energy dense and nutrient poor. veggies and fruits are the opposite. This is a big plus. think vitamins and minerals and fiber.
If you are no Carb, you have to eat fresh reindeer liver and the like and enough of it to get sufficient quantities of vit C for instance.
2. It is hard to eat enough veggies to get an overload of carbs and calories.
3. veggies are low glycemic and hence you don´t get the insulin rush. (the caveat is of course directly after training when you may want the insulin for growth and recovery, in this case fruits are the next best choice, followed by dried fruits which have a higher sugar content per weight.
4. Unless you just ran a marathom, very rarely does one need the 100 + grams of dense carbs coming from a plate of pasta or a pizza. Very often a Pasta dish as many eat for a meal or a pizza gives more than 150 grams of carbohydrates.
5. I won´t get into the Paleo explanation as I never really followed the strict paleo way of eating as I like sugar in my coffee, dark chocolate and salt on my eggs.
I
imported_drpierredebs
Guest
<div>
(Martin Levac @ May 26 2008,2:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(stevejones @ May 25 2008,6:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Martin Levac @ May 25 2008,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There is a period of adaptation from a high carb diet to a no/low carb high fat diet. It can take upward of 20 weeks. Or it can be very short as stevejones has reported in his experiment log.</div>
Well, I think I might have spoken too soon there. I feel like I'm far from adapting right now. I'm losing plenty of fat and have energy, but I've still got serious diarrhea. Two weeks straight of projectile bombing, and it isn't olive oil because I haven't taken any oils for a week now.</div>
Do you supplement with anything? If you do, cut that out and see what gives. A zero carb diet contains all the nutrients we need and any supplementation can cause an overdose on something or cause a deficiency. For instance, an excess of vitamin C will affect the immune system which in turn will affect the bacterial population which in turn will affect the fungal spread such as candida which could cause the runs.</div>
Keep dreaming.
(Martin Levac @ May 26 2008,2:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(stevejones @ May 25 2008,6:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Martin Levac @ May 25 2008,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There is a period of adaptation from a high carb diet to a no/low carb high fat diet. It can take upward of 20 weeks. Or it can be very short as stevejones has reported in his experiment log.</div>
Well, I think I might have spoken too soon there. I feel like I'm far from adapting right now. I'm losing plenty of fat and have energy, but I've still got serious diarrhea. Two weeks straight of projectile bombing, and it isn't olive oil because I haven't taken any oils for a week now.</div>
Do you supplement with anything? If you do, cut that out and see what gives. A zero carb diet contains all the nutrients we need and any supplementation can cause an overdose on something or cause a deficiency. For instance, an excess of vitamin C will affect the immune system which in turn will affect the bacterial population which in turn will affect the fungal spread such as candida which could cause the runs.</div>
Keep dreaming.
I
imported_drpierredebs
Guest
hey martin, what is your body fat%
Martin Levac
New Member
<div>
(drpierredebs @ May 26 2008,12:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">...
No carbs and a keto-genic diet may have a therapeutic effect ( and this is not scientifically beyond doubt), but for the healthy people here who are constantly training with already low body fat percentages (<12%), it makes no sense if the intensity of your workouts get your heart rate above 75% your max heart rate. Even at aerobic levels, the body still burns carbs with an almost equal rate as fat.
You are not an Inuit which has grown up and evolved with very low carb. If you start going Inuit, even 5% carbs will negate the effects as shown in the the paper posted above.
...</div>
A ketogenic diet is recommended for children with epilepsy. But the recommendation comes with a caveat: Medication must have failed first. That's an absurd recommendation. Anyway, the point is that if a ketogenic diet works to reverse and sometime completely cure epilepsy in children, it makes me wonder if carbs were the cause of epilepsy in the first place. Then it makes me wonder what else carbs do.
It's an assumption that the Inuit have adapted and have become genetically different from us during that time after they crossed the Behring strait. It's an assumption that we can adapt from a high carb diet to a zero carb high fat diet in such a short time. Both assumptions are incorrect. In terms of evolutionary time line, 30,000 years is about 0.01% of our evolution so it's quite insignificant compared to all the other adaptations we've gone through before that. The genetic requirements for such a change in diet are too extensive in my opinion for that to have happened in such a short time. It's a much more reasonable assessment that the Inuit were already adapted to a zero carb high fat diet before they crossed the strait. Further, with new data coming from anthropological research, it's becoming more and more obvious that we were farmers starting only about 10-13,000 years ago which would make it even less likely that anybody would have adapted from one extreme diet to the other extreme.
The answer is simple to get: Get DNA samples from Inuit people and compare to DNA samples from European people. Or, feed the two diets to each and see the results. But then, I think that last one would be an ethical challenge too.
(drpierredebs @ May 26 2008,12:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">...
No carbs and a keto-genic diet may have a therapeutic effect ( and this is not scientifically beyond doubt), but for the healthy people here who are constantly training with already low body fat percentages (<12%), it makes no sense if the intensity of your workouts get your heart rate above 75% your max heart rate. Even at aerobic levels, the body still burns carbs with an almost equal rate as fat.
You are not an Inuit which has grown up and evolved with very low carb. If you start going Inuit, even 5% carbs will negate the effects as shown in the the paper posted above.
...</div>
A ketogenic diet is recommended for children with epilepsy. But the recommendation comes with a caveat: Medication must have failed first. That's an absurd recommendation. Anyway, the point is that if a ketogenic diet works to reverse and sometime completely cure epilepsy in children, it makes me wonder if carbs were the cause of epilepsy in the first place. Then it makes me wonder what else carbs do.
It's an assumption that the Inuit have adapted and have become genetically different from us during that time after they crossed the Behring strait. It's an assumption that we can adapt from a high carb diet to a zero carb high fat diet in such a short time. Both assumptions are incorrect. In terms of evolutionary time line, 30,000 years is about 0.01% of our evolution so it's quite insignificant compared to all the other adaptations we've gone through before that. The genetic requirements for such a change in diet are too extensive in my opinion for that to have happened in such a short time. It's a much more reasonable assessment that the Inuit were already adapted to a zero carb high fat diet before they crossed the strait. Further, with new data coming from anthropological research, it's becoming more and more obvious that we were farmers starting only about 10-13,000 years ago which would make it even less likely that anybody would have adapted from one extreme diet to the other extreme.
The answer is simple to get: Get DNA samples from Inuit people and compare to DNA samples from European people. Or, feed the two diets to each and see the results. But then, I think that last one would be an ethical challenge too.
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