HST newbie plan

[Peak_Power]

Obviously for my clients that are experienced and serious about lifting, I use the proper HST program, but for newbies who have never lifted, who come in and say "I want to bulk up" or "I want upper-body strength/size", I think that HST is a little complicated to explain and a bit scientific for them, as well as using heavy weights in the 5s which may be dangerous for someone who would have only lifted for 4 weeks.

So I've designed a "newbie" HST program, which is basically a traditional program using some of HST principles:


Full body program, 3x week

2x10 reps (constant), starting at a weight they "find challenging", maybe around 70% of what would be their true 10RM (they need to know good technique before I get them to work out their RMs)

Mandatory increase in weight every 1-2 weeks minimum, lowing reps if form starts to suffer.

Mandatory rest week every 6-8 weeks.


So this plan still follows the basic prinicples of HST: frequency, progressive load, and SD, but is simpler, doesn' mess around with reps (complicated for newbies), and doesn't use weights anywhere near 5RM, which imo isn't necessary for growth in newbies.

After maybe 6 months of this newbie program, and with good diet they should notice good gains, then put them on a true HST program (with 15-10-5 etc), because they will understand better why this stuff works, and have enough lifting experience to work out RMs with good form.

So what do people think?

 

[Lifting N Tx]

Makes sense to me.

I'm thinking that newbies not using heavy weights might not need a rest week every 6-8 weeks, though. I'm thinking that they should get stronger quickly enough to stay ahead of the RBE for longer than that.

 

[Fausto]

Peak

Whilst I agree to this, I would say the guys that are progressing well could engage HST after three months...my opinion.

Then the SD part as opposed to LNTx I would keep it as it is one of the most difficult things to get used to when you coming from other programs and it is useful...and will enhance gains.

my 0.2 worth!

 

[Lol]

Sounds fine Peak although, like Fausto, I think that after three months of consistent lifting you could happily start a vanilla HST cycle and be safe, assuming you had developed good form in all the exercises you would be using.

 

[faz]

if i help any newbies who dont understand sets etc,as you say it can be a bit complicated so what i do is get them to do fullbody 3x a wk,
3wks 15s 1set
up the weight
3wks 10s 2sets
up the weight
3wks 5s 3 sets
usually after 9 wks they can start to understand HST pricipals and all they need to do on the next cycle is progress the load every workout (or every other) and they should know there maxes so sd and good to start

 

[Peak_Power]

Thanks for the advice guys, Fausto that's a good point to get them used to doing SD, even if it isn't necessary, because true lifters hate taking time off and its important to get them used to it. I was taught to advice lifters to take every 6 weeks off anyway, but this was to "recover" and avoid overtraining, as opposed to "deconditioning", become more sensitive to weight, which I think is the real breakthrough discovery of HST.

 

[vagrant]

I've put new lifters on Max OT (3 sets of 4-6 reps) before without any problem. Unless you count rapid fat loss and strength/muscle gain as a problem.

I don't think HST "done right" would be harmful to them. It's actually a very good beginner program. Got to remember they aren't as strong when they first start out and haven't developed the neural adaptation to lift heavier than the muscles can support yet so the 5's aren't going to be that heavy. Don't forget the muscles only get so much stimulus from the CNS to contract - all of the cells aren't working together at the same time. To get more cells to contribute to muscle contraction and get even more power from the muscle takes time and specific training. A new lifter just doesn't have that ability yet.

 

[Maximumbass18]

Hey peepz,
I've been doing weight lifting in the regulars gym (non-free weight) for about a month and a half. I have seen some incease in strength and musclarity..blabla..I want to start up a hst program..but I didn't really understand everything thats said in the article on this website..so then I went on the forum and found this thread...I'm thinking of taking this up.

I have put together a routine...can you tell me what you guys think? I'm doing a 3 day split (mon-wed-fri) for 6-8weeks increasing the weight every 2 weeks.

Monday example...

Legs
Squats - 2x10
Stiff Leg Deadlift - 2x10

Chest
Incline Bench - 2x10
Flat Bench - 2x10

Back
Can't think of what to add here--cant do chinups cos of my hand!--say no more - 2x10
Bent-over BB Rows - 2x10

Traps
Shrugs - 2x10

Shoulders
DB Shoulder Press - 2x10
Lateral Raise - 2x10
Rear Delt - 2x10

Biceps
DB Curls - 2x10

Triceps
Tricep Ext./Skull crushers EZ bar - 2x10

Calves
Seated Calf Raises - 2x10

Abs
Crunches - 2x10

any good?

Mb

 

[Fausto]

Hey Max...bass

Does not look too bad, perhaps weighted dips would be better than doing two chest movements very much the same except for the incline.

Whats with your hand that you cannot chin but can BB row? You could always do lat pulldowns bt compared to chins they suck IMO.

For legs if you do squats (ATG) and full deadlifts your hams will get a good w/o and you can skip the shrugs by incorporating them into the deadlifts, saves time!

The rest looks fine, just divide your workout into A/B and split the exercises, it will save you time in the gym and is more productive.

Peak - vagrant has a point the 5's wil not be that heavy for newbies anyway so you can get them used to lifting a heavier weight from scratch. So HST may just do from scartch too! Unless the guys are really new to the weight scene in which case induction to lifting will be necessary!

 

[faz]

<div>
(vagrant @ Oct. 23 2006,13:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've put new lifters on Max OT (3 sets of 4-6 reps) before without any problem.  Unless you count rapid fat loss and strength/muscle gain as a problem.

I don't think HST &quot;done right&quot; would be harmful to them.  It's actually a very good beginner program.  Got to remember they aren't as strong when they first start out and haven't developed the neural adaptation to lift heavier than the muscles can support yet so the 5's aren't going to be that heavy.  Don't forget the muscles only get so much stimulus from the CNS to contract - all of the cells aren't working together at the same time.  To get more cells to contribute to muscle contraction and get even more power from the muscle takes time and specific training.  A new lifter just doesn't have that ability yet.</div>
the original question was that newbies found the HST principals to complicated,finding maxes,zigzaging,progressing loads,15s,10s,5s,etc.
most newbies dont know the difference between a set and a rep

thats why i keep them on the same weight for 3wk cycles that way they can get the form correct and understand reps,sets,etc,before adding more weight and droping the reps.
then after 9wks they can do the normal cycle.
3wks using the same weight for 15s,10s,5s, for a begginer should still produce results.

 

[Maximumbass18]

<div>
(Fausto @ Oct. 24 2006,06:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey Max...bass

Does not look too bad, perhaps weighted dips would be better than doing two chest movements very much the same except for the incline.

Whats with your hand that you cannot chin but can BB row? You could always do lat pulldowns bt compared to chins they suck IMO.

For legs if you do squats (ATG) and full deadlifts your hams will get a good w/o and you can skip the shrugs by incorporating them into the deadlifts, saves time!

The rest looks fine, just divide your workout into A/B and split the exercises, it will save you time in the gym and is more productive.

Peak - vagrant has a point the 5's wil not be that heavy for newbies anyway so you can get them used to lifting a heavier weight from scratch. So HST may just do from scartch too! Unless the guys are really new to the weight scene in which case induction to lifting will be necessary!

</div>
To do with the other back exercise...euhhmm there is a machine in the gym that does lat iso (Lat iso Pulldowns)...oh and I can just about do barbell row with out alot of grip lossage. The grip in my right hand totally blows and it will never be 100% so I can't do chins. oh and I can't dip my body weight lol.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">just divide your workout into A/B and split the exercises, it will save you time in the gym and is more productive.</div> don't mean to sound like a noob, but do what?

You mean like supersets?

about the deadlifts...you mean after I pick the bar off the ground and stand straight I should do a shrug?

 

[Fausto]

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">To do with the other back exercise...euhhmm there is a machine in the gym that does lat iso...oh and I can just about do barbell row with out alot of grip lossage. The grip in my right hand totally blows and it will never be 100% so I can't do chins. oh and I can't dip my body weight lol.</div>

Solution? How about straps, power hooks, ever thought of that? There is also some awsome contraptions (search power grip on google) to increase your grip.

Can't dip your body weight? Then use an assit machine till the 5's, progressivelly taking off weight till you can, then from 5's go body weight, that is HST - progression!

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">don't mean to sound like a noob, but do what? You mean like supersets?</div>

No, not supersets, although those save time too, workout A/workout B, just some different exercises in each one then alternate them each training session. Make sense?

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">about the deadlifts...you mean after I pick the bar off the ground and stand straight I should do a shrug? </div>

Exactly! Each time, saves you time and is one hell of a shrug

No jokes...really, many of us do it

 

[Maximumbass18]

Revised Version:

#Workout: A

~*Legs*~
Full Squats - 2x10
Deadlift+Shrugs - 2x10

~*Chest*~
Assissted Dips - 2x10
Flat Bench - 2x10

~*Back*~
Bent-over BB Rows - 2x10
Lat Iso Pulldowns - 2x10

~*Shoulders*~
DB Shoulder Press - 2x10
DB Lateral Raise - 2x10
Rear Delt Raise - 2x10

~*Biceps*~
DB Curls - 2x10

~*Triceps*~
Skull Crushers (EZ bar) - 2x10

~*Calves*~
Seated Calf Raises - 2x10

~*Abs*~
Weighted Crunches - 2x15


#Workout: B

~*Legs*~
Full Squats - 2x10
Deadlift+Shrugs - 2x10

~*Chest*~
Assissted Dips - 2x10
Flat DB Bench - 2x10

~*Back*~
One Arm Bent Over DB Row - 2x10
Lat Iso Pulldowns - 2x10

~*Shoulders*~
DB Military Press - 2x10
Dumbbell Raise - 2x10
Barbell Rear Delt Row - 2x10

~*Biceps*~
Precher Curls - 2x10

~*Triceps*~
DB Tricep Ext. - 2x10

~*Calves*~
Seated Calf Raises - 2x10

~*Abs*~
Incline Crunches - 2x15

 

[Fausto]

Max

Still a lot of work but so be it...just alternate mil press with lat and rear raises IMO the rest is fine.

Happy lifting

 

[Lol]

Max: How can you deadlift if you can't grip for chins?

Just use straps. Cheap and very effective when you use them correctly.

 

[the_dark_master]

Getting back to the original question/proposal: - What's difficult about the Vanilla HST program? The lifter is presented with an 8 week program that tells him what to lift &amp; when, for so many reps; if you as a personal trainer cannot explain that - then I suggest it's you who's complicating matters by starting them off on an &quot;inferior&quot; workout regime.
IMHO this newbie program is akin to sprinkling glitter (HST) on dog **** (the traditional program)
Use full HST &amp; they can apply all the principles &amp; have access to the science behind it, here - all in one place.
Look on HST as the wheel - and stop trying to re-invent it

 

[faz]

try telling a guy who has never lifted a weight before and doesnt even know what a rep or set is,that he must start at about 70% of his max 15s and work up in 6 increments untill he reaches his max 15s,then do the same for 10s and 5s then do negs or carry on with your 5rms for another 2wks and he wil look at you like this

how many questions do you get on this site from guys who have lifted for years asking about finding your maxes etc

 

[Peak_Power]

Thanks for the backup Faz,

the_dark_master no disrespect but those comments were a bit ignorant, I don't know how long you've been lifting for but do you remember what it was like when you first walked into the gym, never lifted a weight or even used a machine in your life.

And to insult my skills as a personal trainer, well that **** I just take personally...that was harsh...

 

[Old and Grey]

<div>
(Lol @ Oct. 30 2006,07:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Max: How can you deadlift if you can't grip for chins?  

Just use straps. Cheap and very effective when you use them correctly.</div>
Forget about Max's program. I'm more interested in meeting his avatar.

 

[Old and Grey]

<div>
(Peak_Power @ Oct. 30 2006,16:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks for the backup Faz,

the_dark_master no disrespect but those comments were a bit ignorant, I don't know how long you've been lifting for but do you remember what it was like when you first walked into the gym, never lifted a weight or even used a machine in your life.

And to insult my skills as a personal trainer, well that **** I just take personally...that was harsh...</div>
Dark is just suffering from a slight seasonal problem with Halloween coming up and all.