I will echo what Totentanz said about caloric intake. The next time you are that lean, you may want to consider a slow bulk to keep your body from putting on too much adipose tissue while bulking. You won't gain the muscle as quick, but for most people, it has been shown that their body fat percentage does not increase for a slow bulk.
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- Thread starter tongzilla
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DWhite2741
New Member
Thanks for the help guys. Maybe I can add in a cycle for cutting. Even though my goal is just to get as big and strong as possibe, it's also nice to look in the mirror and see everything you worked for. Although if being cut means that I wont be as strong then I would rather carry the extra weight and go back to constantly bulking.
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(DWhite2741 @ Jan. 07 2008,12:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks for the help guys. Maybe I can add in a cycle for cutting. Even though my goal is just to get as big and strong as possibe, it's also nice to look in the mirror and see everything you worked for. Although if being cut means that I wont be as strong then I would rather carry the extra weight and go back to constantly bulking.</div>
If getting big is your primary goal, then cutting is still a good idea. Evidence shows a far less favorable fat to muscle gain ratio when you have higher levels of bodyfat. The rule of thumb seems to be that anything over 15% skews things out of your favor. So... cutting down to 10% or so can be a good idea. Anything significantly under 10%, say 8% or lower, seems to also skew things out of your favor, so I wouldn't recommend cutting any lower than 10%.
This also has the added benefit where you will not need as many calories to gain weight once you come back from your cut.
Anyway, don't totally discount what Fausto said because of my post. The best diet is the one you can stick to, and for many people, cleaning up their diet helps them psychologically to stay on their diet. My method requires you simply to eat less and for many people this doesn't feel like they are actually on a diet. Changing what foods you eat makes it feel more like it is a diet, which for some people is important for them to stick to their plan until they reach their goals.
So, like I said, whichever diet is easiest for you to stay on, that's the one you should pick.
(DWhite2741 @ Jan. 07 2008,12:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks for the help guys. Maybe I can add in a cycle for cutting. Even though my goal is just to get as big and strong as possibe, it's also nice to look in the mirror and see everything you worked for. Although if being cut means that I wont be as strong then I would rather carry the extra weight and go back to constantly bulking.</div>
If getting big is your primary goal, then cutting is still a good idea. Evidence shows a far less favorable fat to muscle gain ratio when you have higher levels of bodyfat. The rule of thumb seems to be that anything over 15% skews things out of your favor. So... cutting down to 10% or so can be a good idea. Anything significantly under 10%, say 8% or lower, seems to also skew things out of your favor, so I wouldn't recommend cutting any lower than 10%.
This also has the added benefit where you will not need as many calories to gain weight once you come back from your cut.
Anyway, don't totally discount what Fausto said because of my post. The best diet is the one you can stick to, and for many people, cleaning up their diet helps them psychologically to stay on their diet. My method requires you simply to eat less and for many people this doesn't feel like they are actually on a diet. Changing what foods you eat makes it feel more like it is a diet, which for some people is important for them to stick to their plan until they reach their goals.
So, like I said, whichever diet is easiest for you to stay on, that's the one you should pick.
DWhite2741
New Member
If I have a slightly higher bodyfat percentage can I maintain muscle easier?
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(DWhite2741 @ Jan. 07 2008,20:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If I have a slightly higher bodyfat percentage can I maintain muscle easier?</div>
In theory, that is correct. The more bodyfat you have, the easier it will be to lose fat preferentially when you lose weight. Assuming adequate dietary protein, of course, and regular weight training.
(DWhite2741 @ Jan. 07 2008,20:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If I have a slightly higher bodyfat percentage can I maintain muscle easier?</div>
In theory, that is correct. The more bodyfat you have, the easier it will be to lose fat preferentially when you lose weight. Assuming adequate dietary protein, of course, and regular weight training.
DWhite2741
New Member
Ok that is what I read before. I don't think I can get too overweight due to my genetics but I will gain some fat on me. I used to allways be lean so this is the most I've ever had before. I will just have to wait and see. I have came a long way from being around 122 pounds to now closing in on 200. Technicly closer to 195 rather than 200 but I like to look at it as if I'm closing in on the 200 mark.
scientific muscle
New Member
Dwhite, you have a great frame. Your lats especially are very well-developed. You are definitely bigger than me but if I had your current size and BF% I would do a cut, drop some bodyfat and then bulk up again from there. You could keep gaining if you want but at your bodyfat level right now it may not be the best to continue to gain weight. Bodyfat levels tend to have a 'set-point' and the higher you go in bodyfat, the harder it is to get lean again regardless of genetics. That is a major reason I dieted this past year even though I have a lot more muscle to gain, I was up around 16% BF (at least) at my peak (212 lb.s) and I felt it was smart to drop down and get lean before I focused on muscle mass again so my 'set-point' didn't get out of control.
Just my 2 cents, welcome to HST.
Just my 2 cents, welcome to HST.
DWhite2741
New Member
Thanks Sci. I probably should crack down and try to cut. I would like to see how well I have developed compared to the last time I was cut which was around 50 pounds lighter. As on the subject of my lats. They allways seemed to be a strong point for me as they seem to develop well. I'm not sure if it has something to do with my frame or just the fact that some people have certain muscles that develop well by genetics. One muscle I wish was more bulky are my calves. I just stick to mainly compounds for mass although I don't know if my calves get hit well enough in the deads and squats. I did recently switch to full squats so I might see more all around bulk in my legs.
DWhite2741
New Member
Yeah I agree on the high reps. If you look at people who are heavyset you will notice that most of them have fiarly large calve muscles. So walking around with all of that weight makes their calves hypertrophy I'm assuming. I did think before that if I just got heavier that my calves would grow as well due to walking around with my weight. If we lived near eachother I wouldn't mind trying to work with you quad. I need a new job anyways and it would be nice to work with someone who I can relate to.
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(quadancer @ Dec. 10 2007,02:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Let's see Russ, Lol, O&G, Dan, a recent Bryan, Tot, Bluejacket, Aaron, TDM, Steve Jones (aw, he won't post), and the list goes on. Heck, throw TunnelRat and El Viejo in there too. We need all of the overthehill gang to see what's coming!</div>
I don't have a lot of current photos. I'll try to get some done.
This is me with my mom in July of 2006. That was when I began to realize that I needed to get in shape.
This is me in July of 2007:
I've lost another 7 or 8 pounds since then. I'll try to post a muscle mag pic when I get one.
(quadancer @ Dec. 10 2007,02:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Let's see Russ, Lol, O&G, Dan, a recent Bryan, Tot, Bluejacket, Aaron, TDM, Steve Jones (aw, he won't post), and the list goes on. Heck, throw TunnelRat and El Viejo in there too. We need all of the overthehill gang to see what's coming!</div>
I don't have a lot of current photos. I'll try to get some done.
This is me with my mom in July of 2006. That was when I began to realize that I needed to get in shape.
This is me in July of 2007:
I've lost another 7 or 8 pounds since then. I'll try to post a muscle mag pic when I get one.
DWhite2741
New Member
Yeah that is a big change in a year TunnelRat. You also look younger in the 2007 picture. Keep up the good work man!
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(Totentanz @ Jan. 07 2008,18:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(DWhite2741 @ Jan. 07 2008,12:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks for the help guys. Maybe I can add in a cycle for cutting. Even though my goal is just to get as big and strong as possibe, it's also nice to look in the mirror and see everything you worked for. Although if being cut means that I wont be as strong then I would rather carry the extra weight and go back to constantly bulking.</div>
If getting big is your primary goal, then cutting is still a good idea. Evidence shows a far less favorable fat to muscle gain ratio when you have higher levels of bodyfat. The rule of thumb seems to be that anything over 15% skews things out of your favor. So... cutting down to 10% or so can be a good idea. Anything significantly under 10%, say 8% or lower, seems to also skew things out of your favor, so I wouldn't recommend cutting any lower than 10%.
This also has the added benefit where you will not need as many calories to gain weight once you come back from your cut.
Anyway, don't totally discount what Fausto said because of my post. The best diet is the one you can stick to, and for many people, cleaning up their diet helps them psychologically to stay on their diet. My method requires you simply to eat less and for many people this doesn't feel like they are actually on a diet. Changing what foods you eat makes it feel more like it is a diet, which for some people is important for them to stick to their plan until they reach their goals.
So, like I said, whichever diet is easiest for you to stay on, that's the one you should pick.</div>
IIRC, most of the evidence for the partitioning stuff doesn't really work like this, in the sense that people who are NATURALLY lean tend to partition calories well when overfeeding, and people who are NATURALLY overfat tend to do the opposite, and this was the context of that research.
I.e. whether you are a naturally lean guy at 12% and overfeeding or a naturally chubby guy who got down to 12% and decides to overfeed are not even close to the same thing.
(Totentanz @ Jan. 07 2008,18:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(DWhite2741 @ Jan. 07 2008,12:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks for the help guys. Maybe I can add in a cycle for cutting. Even though my goal is just to get as big and strong as possibe, it's also nice to look in the mirror and see everything you worked for. Although if being cut means that I wont be as strong then I would rather carry the extra weight and go back to constantly bulking.</div>
If getting big is your primary goal, then cutting is still a good idea. Evidence shows a far less favorable fat to muscle gain ratio when you have higher levels of bodyfat. The rule of thumb seems to be that anything over 15% skews things out of your favor. So... cutting down to 10% or so can be a good idea. Anything significantly under 10%, say 8% or lower, seems to also skew things out of your favor, so I wouldn't recommend cutting any lower than 10%.
This also has the added benefit where you will not need as many calories to gain weight once you come back from your cut.
Anyway, don't totally discount what Fausto said because of my post. The best diet is the one you can stick to, and for many people, cleaning up their diet helps them psychologically to stay on their diet. My method requires you simply to eat less and for many people this doesn't feel like they are actually on a diet. Changing what foods you eat makes it feel more like it is a diet, which for some people is important for them to stick to their plan until they reach their goals.
So, like I said, whichever diet is easiest for you to stay on, that's the one you should pick.</div>
IIRC, most of the evidence for the partitioning stuff doesn't really work like this, in the sense that people who are NATURALLY lean tend to partition calories well when overfeeding, and people who are NATURALLY overfat tend to do the opposite, and this was the context of that research.
I.e. whether you are a naturally lean guy at 12% and overfeeding or a naturally chubby guy who got down to 12% and decides to overfeed are not even close to the same thing.
<div>
(mikeynov @ Jan. 08 2008,18:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">IIRC, most of the evidence for the partitioning stuff doesn't really work like this, in the sense that people who are NATURALLY lean tend to partition calories well when overfeeding, and people who are NATURALLY overfat tend to do the opposite, and this was the context of that research.
I.e. whether you are a naturally lean guy at 12% and overfeeding or a naturally chubby guy who got down to 12% and decides to overfeed are not even close to the same thing.</div>
Can you elaborate on this? I know that whether you are naturally lean or not has a huge impact, but I was under the impression that bodyfat percentage had some impact as well, and that it's not really a good idea to bulk up much beyond 15%. Does it matter at all?
I've never really worried about it much myself, as I have a hard time getting that fat anyway - the main attraction of cutting down for me is that I won't need as many calories to gain weight when I start bulking again. But I've seen that rule of thumb thrown around a lot in the past and always assumed it was at correct.
Conversely, however, we do have a lot of (well, at least a few anyway) examples of guys who bulked up until they were hugely fat, then cut down and now are complete and total bad asses.
(mikeynov @ Jan. 08 2008,18:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">IIRC, most of the evidence for the partitioning stuff doesn't really work like this, in the sense that people who are NATURALLY lean tend to partition calories well when overfeeding, and people who are NATURALLY overfat tend to do the opposite, and this was the context of that research.
I.e. whether you are a naturally lean guy at 12% and overfeeding or a naturally chubby guy who got down to 12% and decides to overfeed are not even close to the same thing.</div>
Can you elaborate on this? I know that whether you are naturally lean or not has a huge impact, but I was under the impression that bodyfat percentage had some impact as well, and that it's not really a good idea to bulk up much beyond 15%. Does it matter at all?
I've never really worried about it much myself, as I have a hard time getting that fat anyway - the main attraction of cutting down for me is that I won't need as many calories to gain weight when I start bulking again. But I've seen that rule of thumb thrown around a lot in the past and always assumed it was at correct.
Conversely, however, we do have a lot of (well, at least a few anyway) examples of guys who bulked up until they were hugely fat, then cut down and now are complete and total bad asses.
scientific muscle
New Member
<div>
(Totentanz @ Jan. 08 2008,19:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Conversely, however, we do have a lot of (well, at least a few anyway) examples of guys who bulked up until they were hugely fat, then cut down and now are complete and total bad asses.</div>
I have thought about that before. Just bulking and bulking for a couple of years or so and getting HYOOGE! Monster HST member/power-lifter Stevejones once recommended it to me in a private message. He though I was too small and shouldn't worry about getting fat for now; that I could always cut later. I hate cutting for too long though and its hard for me to bulk when my gut is hanging over my jeans all day!
It is tempting, and many power-lifters do it that way since all they want is strength and unless they have to stay in a weight-class can just get pretty chubby to boost anabolism.
(Totentanz @ Jan. 08 2008,19:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Conversely, however, we do have a lot of (well, at least a few anyway) examples of guys who bulked up until they were hugely fat, then cut down and now are complete and total bad asses.</div>
I have thought about that before. Just bulking and bulking for a couple of years or so and getting HYOOGE! Monster HST member/power-lifter Stevejones once recommended it to me in a private message. He though I was too small and shouldn't worry about getting fat for now; that I could always cut later. I hate cutting for too long though and its hard for me to bulk when my gut is hanging over my jeans all day!
It is tempting, and many power-lifters do it that way since all they want is strength and unless they have to stay in a weight-class can just get pretty chubby to boost anabolism.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
It seems sometimes that all the science still doesn't add up.
For example you should:
Bulk to get bigger
Use compound majority of the time
Always get in enought protein ...etc.
And I still see hundreds of people a year at my gym who don't eat enough...have never seen a protein shake and train with light weights and super high volume on the once bodypart a week routine and they are HUGE.
You can't say that its genetics and juice for everyone?
I just don't get it?
For example you should:
Bulk to get bigger
Use compound majority of the time
Always get in enought protein ...etc.
And I still see hundreds of people a year at my gym who don't eat enough...have never seen a protein shake and train with light weights and super high volume on the once bodypart a week routine and they are HUGE.
You can't say that its genetics and juice for everyone?
I just don't get it?