I read a French study over thew weekend that favored a mod protein/no carb/ no fat pre WO meal vs. the standard thinking of mod/pro, mod/carb/no fat pre WO meal. I tend to use 20g pro/20g carb with creatine pre workout. Any thoughts on this study? Has anyone seen it? Should I change my thinking? Thank you in advance.
Pre-workout Nutrition
- Thread starter Cliner9er
- Start date
I read it in my exercise physiology journal. It was an expansion of the study (U. Texas?) with the low level aminos (6g's) and the 35 g of carbs. Bryan references the study on the website (blow nose quote) I am not buying it b/c the study was poorly designed, they used significant fats in the comparison carbohydrate drink.
. They favored it for the increased protein sythesis in the protein only group. I can't give the exact reference right now, I was wondering if anyone read it and their thoughts on it. I saw Muscle Media referenced this study to sell some protein drinks too.
What do you mean poorly run? The pre training research available from Tipton et al is excellent (as well as all their other papers on the subject). And in general it shows that protein (6g essential aminos-a small amount yes, but all that is needed to attain maximal protein synthesis) and carbs (35g sucrose) before training provides better protein synthesis than the same thing done after. I dont think they have done any reaseach with fat in the comparison drink.
Get a reference please
Get a reference please
I am referring to the FRENCH study Aaron F. Not the Tipton study. (i.e. "expansion of U. Texas study"
. The Tipton study is nothing new, it was being applied last year. The French study had 6 subjects and were given a whole milk and carbohydrate drink before exercise. With a small aggregate and poor expansion theory (fat in pre-WO when hypo. was proved without fat) the study is poorly run. I crossed it as an editorial point in my clinical EP journal. If you NEED a reference look on medline. It will give you a start point.
. The Tipton study is nothing new, it was being applied last year. The French study had 6 subjects and were given a whole milk and carbohydrate drink before exercise. With a small aggregate and poor expansion theory (fat in pre-WO when hypo. was proved without fat) the study is poorly run. I crossed it as an editorial point in my clinical EP journal. If you NEED a reference look on medline. It will give you a start point.Ok I will say it once again, a reference, a name (or are you meaning french is a name not country) because there are hundreds upon thousands of refenerences put up a month, and if it was in a journal 5months ago that makes a BIG difference (needle meet haystack). If it crossed in an editorial in a journal, they would have provided a reference.[b said:Quote[/b] (Cliner9er @ Feb. 05 2003,4:22)]I am referring to the FRENCH study Aaron F. Not the Tipton study. (i.e. "expansion of U. Texas study"
I crossed it as an editorial point in my clinical EP journal. If you NEED a reference look on medline. It will give you a start point.
THis comment also reads as tho you have read the actual study, surely a reference isnt difficult.[b said:
Here is your needle in haystack. What do you guys think of this study is it a pure protein shake or a mix shake before exercise?
: Bouthegourd JC, Roseau SM, Makarios-Lahham L, Leruyet PM, Tome DG, Even PC. Related Articles, Links
A preexercise alpha-lactalbumin-enriched whey protein meal preserves lipid oxidation and decreases adiposity in rats.
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Sep;283(3):E565-72.
: Bouthegourd JC, Roseau SM, Makarios-Lahham L, Leruyet PM, Tome DG, Even PC. Related Articles, Links
A preexercise alpha-lactalbumin-enriched whey protein meal preserves lipid oxidation and decreases adiposity in rats.
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Sep;283(3):E565-72.
I write this with reference to many of the recent posts about pre/post workout shakes. i think we are all getting carried away with the benefit of workout shakes. their only purpose is to 'ice the cake'. They are NOT the be all and end all of hypertrophy!!!
You really think it makes so much difference whether the body gets 22grams instead of 25 grams of protein. or 60 grams of carbs instead of 55.7!!!!
We know that after training there is a window where you may enhance hypertrophy by supplying protein and carbs. But the window is 36hrs long!!! real food during the course of a day is more important than any shake will be!
Carbs or no carbs...it will really not make that much difference if you eat appropriately at all other times!
Remember, post/pre workout shakes are only the icing on the cake!
You really think it makes so much difference whether the body gets 22grams instead of 25 grams of protein. or 60 grams of carbs instead of 55.7!!!!
We know that after training there is a window where you may enhance hypertrophy by supplying protein and carbs. But the window is 36hrs long!!! real food during the course of a day is more important than any shake will be!
Carbs or no carbs...it will really not make that much difference if you eat appropriately at all other times!
Remember, post/pre workout shakes are only the icing on the cake!
Unfortunately no, in a study of older men (I iwll find the reference later) they compared the intake of a post training drink either taken directly after training, or 2 hours after training. THe remainder of hte diets where equal. Those who took the supplement directly after training had more increases in muscle and strength. While not directly comparable to younger men, the principals still hold true. You need a rise in aminos prior to training or directly after training to achieve best results.[b said:
it doesnt hav to be whey hydroslate (as tmag would say), it could be chicken etc. its just important to have pro/cho before and after training (especially if you train first thing in the morning)
Thanks...[b said:
1) rats - about says it all
2) 4 training feed groups - fasted, glucose rich, whole milk protein or alpha lactglobulin rich, all (except fasted) had the same level of fat.
3) fasting around training = lighter rats
4) glucose & milk protein = bigger rats, a-lacto = biggest rats - but very little of significance
5) havent read it that well cos Im tired, but thats a start
Ok. Now we are getting somewhere.....finally. I workout first thing in the AM. I have a 9 hour fast before my workout (overnight). Should I throw carbs in my pre WO drink (20 NH4, 20 CHO)? or keep it pure protein (20 NH4, 0-2 CHO)? What is the consensus? Goal is to continue to get lean while attempting to add mass. (Everyone's longitudinal goal I suppose.)
I know it doesnt give the complete picture, but you said[b said:
which the point which is not correct. Pre and post training are amongst the most important times to get food, especially protein, as the addition immediately before/after, generally combined with carbs will increase protein synthesis. There may be something happening that doesnt allow full increases in protein synthesis, if the food isnt consumed around the training period.[b said:
These older adults both had the same diet, the only difference was the drink directly after, or 2 hours later.
It made the difference between growth and no growth.
Right after an overnight fast, it would be good to get carbs and protein before a training session.[b said:
There is none[b said:
While fat loss can happen while adding mass, the two are generally seperate goals. Potentially around HST cycles, it could be best to provide carbs around both, as whole body workouts drop whole body glycogen quickly.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Goal is to continue to get lean while attempting to add mass. (Everyone's longitudinal goal I suppose.)
There is potential that no carbs around training could limit any potential fat gain (by not blunting fat oxidation) but in the real world, it will make little difference.
I would suggest you leave the carbs out of the pre-workout, and ad them to the psot workout drink. This should allow fat to be mobilized during exercise, and at the same time, replace calories with carbs instead of fat post-workout, with an over all effect of preserving muscle and losing fat.[b said:Quote[/b] (Cliner9er @ Feb. 06 2003,8:52)]Ok. Now we are getting somewhere.....finally. I workout first thing in the AM. I have a 9 hour fast before my workout (overnight). Should I throw carbs in my pre WO drink (20 NH4, 20 CHO)? or keep it pure protein (20 NH4, 0-2 CHO)? What is the consensus? Goal is to continue to get lean while attempting to add mass. (Everyone's longitudinal goal I suppose.)
I'm sure you already know this, but your calories throughout the rest of the day are going to make a big difference too.
RainierWolfcastle
New Member
Do you burn a lot of fat in an anerobic workout ?
Rainier
Rainier
How about the cortisol management properties of pre workout carbs? Aren't these possibly enough to justify this practice?
If one is trying to minimize muscle loss and is trying to lose fat as slow as possible, should one still avoid pre workout carbs?
These last two threads on this subject confused me to a large extent. Not good.
If one is trying to minimize muscle loss and is trying to lose fat as slow as possible, should one still avoid pre workout carbs?
These last two threads on this subject confused me to a large extent.
Not good.