TangoDown's Vanilla HST Run

Discussion in 'Training Logs' started by TangoDown, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Thanks for the words of encouragement.

    Any tips on how I might handle sumo deads next cycle if I keep em in seeing as I'm doing standard 2x15, 3x10, 4x5 squat? 10 and 15 rep deads are a real killer and take away from my squats. I got up to 315 x 4-5 in decent form way back when (when I was heavier) by sticking in the 5 rep range and pushing up by 5-10lb each deadlift session (every other session). Of course that's not going to work sticking with vanilla HST. Loads will be too high relative to everything else, right?
  2. _tim

    _tim Well-Known Member

    I get it - and the thing is that 15 rep squats are no walk in the part either if you're using anywhere close to your 15RM. Honestly - if you're doing 2 weeks in each rep range, you can easily alternate the lifts and that will not only keep you fresher (mainly your lumbar spine and glutes) but it will keep the loads manageable. The thing about vanilla HST is that as long as you're sticking to the principles, the rules aren't violated and it's still vanilla HST. Bear in mind any increase in load is progressive if it's done linearly within the context of the cycle - and as long as your starting loads aren't too aggressive, this should be very doable.

    I think the main thing is patience, especially if at a heavier BW you were pulling 315 for 5; there is nothing saying that with proper nutrition and the correct progression, in a couple cycles you won't be pulling 350 for 5.
  3. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Yeah alternating what I had previously done. Thing is, I feel like I'm benefiting from squatting 3 times a week at this point. Today, got 235 x 5 squat, though spotter got scared and grabbed me right as I was powering out of my sticking point. Gonna repeat it. If I get it again, that's a 15lb PR w/ healed lifting shoes.
  4. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    235lb x 5 squat again. Last rep might have been a bit high but I'll count it.

    Belt + 65lb x 5 pullup at almost 160lb. Last rep was also questionable but I'll count it as well.

    Benched 185lb x 4 today. 1 less than 2 sessions ago. I'll push everything up 5lb and hopefully it won't be as hard come next cycle.

    Calling it a cycle. Retested sumo deadlift and just sticking with 275lb x 5 for now. Hopefully I can find some way to make it go up next time. Maybe knowing I'll be in a caloric surplus the entire time will help.

    Gonna try to eat at maintenance during SD. 3000 calories/day should do it.
  5. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Probably starting the new cycle tomorrow. I might need to aim for 4k calories a day. Wondering if I have hyperthyroidism lol.

    Still a bit iffy on how I've got my deadlifts incremented. I've got squat going every session and sumo DL every other session. Squats are incremented at about 5% intervals and deadlifts are incremented at 10-14% intervals.

    Guess I just have to hope an increase in calories will carry over.

    Any last minute suggestions, feel free.
  6. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Let the games begin.

    2x15 @ 140lb

    Sumo Deadlift:
    1x15 @ 175lb

    Bench Press:
    2x15 @ 115lb

    Weighted Pullups:
    1x15 @ Belt + 15lb

    E-Z Bar Concentration Curls: 1x15 @ Bar (Weight Unknown) + 25lb

    Squat felt easy as expected. I had some groin pain going into the final 2 weeks of last cycle when I squat with light weight and it appears to be gone. Happy about that. Squatting a little bit wider than I was last cycle for greater stability.

    Deadlift was fine. It's pretty hard to keep form perfect through 15 reps because I just wanna power them out. That, I feel, is somewhat of a double-edged sword when it comes to HST. You get a lot of practice with 15 rep sets but 15 rep sets are hard and so, at least for me, form deterioration starts because I want to finish off the set before I puke lol.

    Speaking of puking, after my second set of bench, I felt nauseous. Probably due to reduced conditioning, but could have also been contributed to the shit sleep I got last night. Lactic acid was definitely slowing me down second set of bench.

    I put some plates under my feet for the first set to see if I could gain increased leg drive (since apparently plates under the feet is also competition legal for most power lifting meets), but I didn't notice much of a difference so I'm not going to do that from now on.

    Pullups felt sufficiently hard after rep 10. I suppose that's to be expected. Did a quick set of curls and left without doing any cardio because I felt even more nauseous after that.

    I'll weigh myself next time.
  7. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    1st sessions of 15s make everyone want to puke. Don't stress it.
  8. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Squat 190lb x 15

    Bench 150lb x 14. Didn't try 15 because no spot, but I don't know if I could have gotten it. Mad lol.

    Pullups Belt + 20lb x 15 @ about 160lb. Last rep questionable but I'll count it since chin is just at the bar.

    Sumo Deadlift...didn't even attempt it - should be 235lb x 15. I feel too tapped out after 2 sets of 15 reps of squat to do 15 reps of deadlift. Dunno what I'm gonna do here. I think I need real, grind-it-out linear progression to progress here - not 30-40lb intervals.
  9. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Might be worth not doing a typical HST, and doing something closer to powerlifting in terms of programming.
  10. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Any suggestions?
  11. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Well TBH, even a basic 5x5 seems like it would work better for you right now. Your work capacity doesn't seem like it's there at this moment, and 5x5 will bring that up really quickly.
  12. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    I'll finish out the cycle and see where I'm at.

    It's not that I go to failure with the deadlift. It's just that I can't be bothered mentally because 15 reps after 2 sets of 15 reps of squat is fuckin' hard lol.

    5x5 will definitely help with deadlift in terms of small intervals. That's what I like.

    Have you checked out Candito's Linear Program?

  13. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I feel like Candito is better at training himself, rather than others, but having said that, his program is not horrible.
  14. _tim

    _tim Well-Known Member

    Are you after strength or size primarily, TD?
  15. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Primarily after strength, but this point I'm after anything...
  16. _tim

    _tim Well-Known Member

    Strength is an interesting topic - but at least from my perspective, there are a number of ways to increase it. I got my strongest across all lifts using Russ' triples layout, hands down. That said, had I done a second cycle with my buddy Jay's system (Ashman Strength System), that likely would have taken top prize. The 5x5 layout works for many - but for me, it missed something that was noticeable. I stagnated far too quickly, but I haven't done it in years so that may have changed. The common thread between both of the programs that I like is a noticeable volume of sets across tiny reps for the top loads. In addition, the use of rep ranges that are both strength and hypertrophy centric within the context of a cycle makes a huge difference. I have to believe that, like HST, there is a perfect alignment of factors to consider for a positive outcome; the old saying "lift heavy weights get big and strong" are part of it - but the counter is challenging the same fibers in multiple ways, not only through exercise selection, but also through set volume (total time under tension within a set). I dunno TD - I think at this point switching up to a noticeably different approach may be the ticket.
  17. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    TBH, I don't think anything in the literature or even anecdotal evidence supports this hypothesis as you've laid it out.
  18. _tim

    _tim Well-Known Member

    It's worked for me, Jester. That's all the support I need, especially as I have followed many other layouts to a T that have produced for others but fell short for me.
  19. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Started doing ab ripper x from P90x twice a week because I have no ab work and never do abs.
  20. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    I'm around 162lb at 5'8". Last session it said 163lb and today after more intensive cardio it said 160lb or 161lb.

    Bench 165lb x 10.

    Squat 210lb x 10 (though I didn't like my form. Gonna work on it during 5s).

    Weighted Pullups Belt + 37.5lb x 10 (last rep was questionable but I'll count it. Honestly I think I'd be even stronger here but I have to mind the fucking wall that's less than a foot from the pullup bar each rep or my weight slams into it. I hate my gym.

    E-Z Bar Concentration Curls, I tried to add 2.5lb more on each side and only got 13 or 14 reps (lost count lol). I'll know not to do that again.

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