TangoDown's Vanilla HST Run

Discussion in 'Training Logs' started by TangoDown, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Completed 3 sets of 185lb bench. Only did 3 reps on the 4th set because I didn't like how I was set up.

    Gonna repeat the weight next time and if I get 4 sets, I'll move onto 190lb.

    Should be about 10lb away from a 225lb 1rm. Excited.

    Weighted pullups 3 sets of Belt + 55lb at 162lb-164lb. If I can get myself 3 sets of Belt + 60lb x 5, I'll only be down 2.5lb from last PR and about 5-8lb heavier, giving me a net PR.

    Squat felt like garbage today. Sumo deadlift was fine, though I still have trouble breaking the bar off the floor. Once it's off the floor, it flies up.. I may post a separate topic on how to fix that and brainstorm some deadlift-centric cycle alterations for next cycle. That is, unless someone wants to help me in this thread (if anyone still checks it lol).
  2. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Deficit deads, done with conventional set up. Good mornings. This is how to improve the break.
  3. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Deficit deads and you could also try adding in a pause about an inch off the floor.
  4. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Weight: 164lb @ 5'8" (+ 6lb)

    Bench: 190lb x 5 (PR + 5lb)

    Weighted Pullups: Belt + 60lb x 5 (Net PR due to weight gain)

    Squat: 2x5 @ 220lb

    E-Z Bar Concentration Curl: Bar (weight unknown) + 50lb x 9 (PR + 1 rep)

    Finished out the 5s, and moving onto post 5s. Didn't get to squat my 230lb because I barely squatted last session so I repeated last session's weight. 3rd set of squat I lost balance on the 2nd rep and had to rack the weight (no safety pins cus my gym sucks). Hoping for at least 240lb x 5 this cycle.

    Everything else PR'd. Next session I'll try to PR on sumo deadlift, which I should have assuming the weight comes off the ground because once the bar clears the ground it flies up. Hardest part of sumo is breaking the fuckin' thing off the ground.

    Very happy about bench PR. I'll do multiple sets next time and see if I can't get at least 3x5. Hoping I might get to 195lb x 5 but I only have 5 more sessions until I leave for a vacation in Florida so that'll most likely result in a forced SD.
  5. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Had a horrible bout of insomnia last night, so I probably got a total of 5-6 hours, and it was cut in half by 4 hours of laying in bed wide awake.

    Went into the gym anyway because I only have a few sessions left til I'm forced to SD due to my trip to Florida.

    Squat felt horrible. Only got 1x5 230lb and then failed on the 5th rep of the last set. I might just have to drop squatting because my gym is never going to put in a power rack since it caters to cardio bunnies so heavy squat is always going to be dangerous and thus I'm always going to go into heavy sets with caution.

    Bench also was bad. I didn't set up the way I would have liked because my spotter wouldn't get out of the way, and of course his lift off was bad and pulled my shoulders right out of position. So I only got 190lb x 4 as opposed to the multiple sets of 190lb x 5 that I was planning on getting. 190lb x 5 was easy last time so I'll chock it up to shitty spotter and insomnia.

    Sumo Deadlift, on the other hand, was super easy. 285lb x 5 flew up like absolutely nothing. I'll progress to 295lb next time and if the speed is the same I might just jump to 315lb.

    Weighted pullups, again Belt + 60lb 2x5. I'll try for a 3rd set if I sleep better next session.

    Concentration curls, failed on 10th rep.


    Honestly, don't think I'm gonna be able to push my numbers much higher considering my timetable. If I wasn't leaving so soon I'd extend out the cycle and just grind out the reps.
  6. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    Along with the other deadlift suggestions, I let the weight come to a complete rest before pulling again rather than touch and go. This makes sure you are practicing the off the ground portion each pull rather than just at the first rep.
  7. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    I don't do touch and go.

    I basically fixed my deadlift now.
  8. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    Good to hear.
  9. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    315lb x 5 sumo DL at around 165lb. Should be around a 340-355lb 1RM.

    I admit that I deadlifted 3 sessions in a row because I'm an idiot, but 285lb x 5 was super easy, 295lb x 5 was rounded for some reason (last session), and 315lb x 5 looked decent but the camera angle was bad so I'll have to try it again on my last session before I leave for Florida.

    I noticed that though I didn't have an issue with 295lb x 5, 315lb x 5 - the bar rolls forward before it pulls off the ground. I assume this is to get the bar under the scapula but I definitely lose pulling power from fighting the bar.

    I think it doesn't happen with 295lb because 315lb is heavy so when I drop the bar on the eccentric motion I get out of position before I tighten up for the next rep.

    The set itself took about 1 minute, which is a bit slow. But the shit is heavy so what can I do lol.

    I also haven't squatted in a few sessions. I became demotivated after only being able to squat 230lb x 5 (albeit probably ATG) for 1 set, whereas last cycle I got it for 2 sets and almost had a 3rd. I will have to see where I stand with squat, but it's just so hard to go heavy with no power rack or safety pins/self-spotting gear available.

    Bench 190lb x 5 felt pretty good this time. Second set was slower but not extremely hard. Third set I was out of position so I only do 2-3 reps.

    I might try 195lb x 5 for shits and giggles soon. I'm definitely more powerful when I unrack the bar myself so I've got to really focus on my setup before the lift.

    Managed to get Belt + 62.5lb x 4. Didn't try rep 5. Might be able to get it if I don't deadlift beforehand.

    Did some really slow concentration curls - not near max.
  10. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    I think this probably happens because you are shooting your hips and allowing the bar to get away from you. You need to activate your lats more and focus on keeping your torso angle constant until the bar is past your knees. Your quads should be firing like crazy to break the bar off the floor. Do deficits to train yourself to focus on this aspect more.
  11. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Hips actually move downward as the bar travels forward for me as torso becomes.more upright. Gonna try to actovate lats and also get weight way onto heels
  12. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    I've just realised you said you are doing sumo! Even so, I can't see how the bar can get away from you if your torso becomes more upright?
    Your hips should never move downwards during the pull either.
  13. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    I'm not manually lowering my hips. The torso angle is changing, and thus the hips are lower to the ground. Bar only moved slightly forward with 295 (and there's no noticeable torso angle change) but it's shifting way forward on 315 by the end of the set. Torso angle changes to compensate alongside the bar moving forward so the bar can get under the scapula. It's sort of the reverse of hips shooting up but the torso angle is changing instead.

    I did pop this problem into google and people were recommending activating the lats more. I also think I could get onto my heels as if my weight is shifted onto the forefoot, my shoulders would be too forward over the bar and thus I'd think the bar would move forward.

    I do have a video of myself pulling so I'll try to upload it for you to see when my phone is charged enough.
  14. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah, it would be good to see a vid. A picture paints a thousand words...
    Def think about keeping weight back on heels and activating lats more.
  15. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    The angle of the video isn't the greatest but you should see what's going on.

    Also, be in awe of the tiny, neglected weight room at my gym. What you see is literally half the size of the entire room.

  16. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    The bar is drifting away because you're doing one/all of these;

    a) too far forward in your set up, meaning more back and less glutes/hamstrings dragging that thing along you shins for dead-bleeding
    b) not using the lats enough to pull it into place
    c) leaning forward during the lift as your body tries to assert itself into the stronger position of higher hips, rounded low back

    From my take on that video, I think it is probably a bit of a) and b). Your lower back and hip height control don't seem to be causing a forward drift.
  17. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    So do you think rocking back onto heels would solve the problem?

    Also, how would I bring the lats more into play? I would assuming tucking the shoulders down would do it (as opposed to contracting the scapula back, which is not what I'd want to do)?

    EDIT: Think I know the cue. "Breaking the bar" should flex the lats.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  18. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    320 x 5 sumo deadlift today. Pretty hard but I did manage to stop the bar from rolling forward all bit a little bit during the set.

    After rep 3, I had about 10 seconds of rest between reps. For some reason on rep 3, the bar got stuck a bit up the shins for about half a second. Dunno wtf was going on there.

    It looked like there was a little bit of rounding on the last couple of reps. Here's a comparison of the moment right before the bar leaves the floor. Let me know if you think it's acceptable. [​IMG]

    I know it was stupid to deadlift 5 sessions in a row lol but only the last couple of sessions were near max effort. It was my only leg work too.

    Only got 2 sets of 190lb x 5 bench again. Second set was considerably slower than it was last session so I know my CNS is starting to fatigue.

    Think I'm calling it a cycle.


    Weight: 158lb to 164lbish (+ 6lb) @ 5'8"

    Bench Press: 1x5 185lb to 2x5 190lb (PR + 5lb)

    Weighted Pullups:
    3x5 Belt + 62.5lb to 2x5 Belt + 60lb x 5 (considering the weight gain, PR + 3-4lb)

    Sumo Deadlift: 275lb x 5 to 320lb x 5 (PR + 45lb)

    E-Z Bar Concentration Curls:
    Bar (weight unknown) + 50lb x 8 to Bar + 50lb x 9 (PR + 1 rep)
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  19. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    So the cycle ends today. I tested a few more lifts. I did some front squat and though I have the ROM to keep straight, the bar basically digging up onto my adam's apple which I don't particularly like. Still, 135lb x 5 was easy. I probably have maybe 165lb - 185lb x 5 there. Still, don't feel very comfortable doing these without any sort of spot. If I fall backwards with the bar digging into my adam's apple that's it for me.

    I tested the non-plate loaded leg press and got 370lb x 5 (looks like this). Max on the machine is 505lb. Also tested my 10RM for bench and got 175lb x 10 without too much trouble. Might have been able to push to 180lb x 10 but I'll air on the side of caution.

    As for what I'm going to do next cycle, I'd like some advice. I'm going to keep upper body work vanilla HST cus it seems to be working.

    What I have tested: sumo deadlift, low-bar back squat and leg press 5rm. I don't feel very safe squatting near max because no safety pins but I'd like to keep squat in my wheelhouse. So I was thinking about doing something like this:
    Bench: 1 week of 15s, 2 weeks of 10s, 2 weeks of 5s, increase 5rm

    Weighted Pullups: 1 week of 15s, 2 weeks of 10s, 2 weeks of 5s, increase 5rm

    Lower Body:

    Day 1: Heavy Leg Press (4x5), Metabolic set squat (15 reps... ??? % 1rm)

    Day 2: Sumo DL Speed Work (5x4 @ 50-70% 1rm), Metabolic set squat (15 reps... ??? % 1rm)

    Day 3: Moderate Leg Press (5x4 @ [email protected] of 1rm ), Metabolic set squat (15 reps)

    Day 4: Heavy Sumo DL (2-3x5), Metabolic set squat (15 reps... ??? % 1rm)

    What do you guys think? Volume, frequency of heavy lifts, etc. Feel free to tear the lower body portion apart if you don't think it'll work.
  20. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure how you can fall backward doing front squats?

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