TangoDown's Vanilla HST Run

Discussion in 'Training Logs' started by TangoDown, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    lol well anything is possible
     
  2. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    So what do you think about that lower body plan? Does it work?
     
  3. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I think speed work is completely unnecessary for you.

    Further, you're going to need to gain size at some point.
     
  4. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    I'm up about 8lb a cycle. That's 150lb to 165lb-166lb @ 5'8" since I finished the cut from 180lb and probably around 17-18% body fat. Not really much I can do other than keep following HST and eating at a manageable surplus. Albeit, I've put 15lb on my bench press and maintained (roughly) my weighted pullup weight so size has to be coming. It's not like I can snap my fingers and put on 20lb of muscle in the next cycle. That is, unless you'd like to Fedex me some dbol lol.
     
  5. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    All good, just had a vague memory about you not chasing size at some point.

    At your height, sumo is probably the way to go. I would be looking strongly at front squats and box squats with a wide stance as your assistance work. At the end of the day, if you've gain 8lbs of weight and your deadlift is still the same on the bar, then it's just a matter of training it consistently so the neurological gains follow the size gains.

    Deficits wouldn't hurt.
     
  6. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Nah, I'm all for putting on size. I just want to keep the surplus conservative so I'm not putting on 16lb in a cycle and becoming a meatball.

    Sumo Deadlift did go up. Only thing that didn't was squat.

    I'd love to box squat but there's nothing I can sit on at my gym. So I'm pretty much stuck with back squat (without safety pins) and leg press. I can do front squat but I didn't test my maxes before SD.

    Assuming I use either front or back squat and wide stance leg press as assistance work alongside sumo DL, how would you suggest I program and progress there, taking into account the fact that upper body work (bench, weighted pullups) will be run concurrently in the typical 15/10/5/5rm HST way?
     
  7. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    You mentioned it isn't good to deadlift consecutively but I think you will be fine. I do it 3x a week and thinking of trying it 6x a week.
     
  8. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Bump. Probably starting up again on Saturday so advice on how to structure legs with leg press, squat, and sumo dl (primarily to bring up the sumo dl) whilst keeping with vanilla HST for upper body would be greatly appreciated.
     
  9. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    That's a lot of deadlift. Do you lift heavy 3 days a week?
     
  10. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    That's the optimal deadlifting frequency IMO.
     
  11. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    With a heavy load though? No moderate load day thrown in?

    A/B

    A: Sumo DL Heavy, Leg Press Heavy, metabolic squat set 1x15

    B: Sumo DL Moderate, Leg Press Moderate, metabolic squat set 1x15

    Reps/volume: Since 10RM is about 80% of 1RM. I could start at 65-70% 1RM and do 1-2x10 sumo DL/3x10 leg press until I hit 80% 1RM for both lifts and then start doing 1-2x5 sumo DL/4x5 leg press. If I overshoot the 10RM since I don't know them, I can always cluster.

    I guess I'd make moderate day volume a bit higher since a notably lighter load is being applied. Maybe 1 more set for either lift.

    How does that sound?
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  12. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    In my last cycle I started at 250 and worked to 320 over 3 weeks doing a 3 x 6 and maxed 405 about a month after (during that month I used a modified cycle of 531). Talking percentages, I went from 60% (assuming I could have pulled 405 at the start of the cycle, which I doubt) to 80% of my 1rm. I am not advocating this for programming but while I do agree that deadlifting is taxing, your body will adapt to regular deadlifting provided adequate sleep and food. I may have to revisit this once I pull heavier weights but right now it doesn't seem to be an issue pulling multiple times a week.
     
  13. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I would advocate:

    Day 1: Heavy
    Day 3: Deficit/chief assistance exercise, mod-heavy
    Day 5: Moderate

    For a M-W-F split of deadlifting.
     
  14. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    The chief assistance exercise is non-plate-loaded leg press from a dead stop.

    Rep-scheme? Load Progression?

    Think I might do what I've planned out above and see how it works this cycle. Sumo DL seems like the only movement I'll be pushing heavily that'll be fatiguing the lower back so I think I can handle heavy work twice a week.

    Moderate day, maybe 80% of what I was lifting on the previous heavy day? As for volume, I'm thinking 1-2x10 for sumo DL and 2-3x10 for leg press until around 80% of 1RM, then 2-3x5 sumo DL and 3-4x5 leg press. Added light-moderate squat at 15 reps somewhere just to keep it in the bullpen. That'd put me at around 60 reps on legs per session until the weight starts getting heavy where volume would decrease a bit and it'd end up around 45 reps per session (considering the 15 reps of squat).
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  15. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    M: 10-15 singles at 90% 1RM. Speed sets and/or work-down to finish off sometimes.

    W: Deficits and some work-down/speed sets at the end

    F: 5-6 doubles at 85%. Deficit speed pulls if you're feeling l ike it.



    I don't see why you'd need to progress upwards across sessions. Obviously you warm up to your working load each session. There's a substantial difference between SST programs and HST-like programs.

    That prospective volume is insane, IMO. Just my thoughts. If you want to go volume-psycho, there's always Sheiko.


    If your deficit is anything LESS than an O-plate 15, I don't think you're going to get a damn thing out of it, frankly. I would recommend an O-plate 20 or 25 (blue or red). If you need a LOT of help, breaking off of the floor, then deeper still until it's a squat-deadlift hybrid, but frankly, you aren't at that stage yet. Not even close.
     
  16. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    I don't need to progress across sessions. I can progress weekly.

    I like the simplicity of that. I'm deconditioned so I doubt I can pull 90% 1RM for 10-15 reps. Maybe I can start at a lower % and then be up at 90% by the 3rd week.

    I don't have O-plates at my gym so I don't have can't use that point of reference. I also haven't tested my deficit or conventional deadlifts.

    I think Sumo is always slow off the ground. It's not terrible for me. I just have more issue with the bar rolling a bit out of position before the pull than actually getting it off the ground once it is in position. So I don't know how necessary a deficit is at this point, especially if I have no idea what weight to use.

    I'd like to continue with some sort of pushing movement for legs, and since heavy-ass squat isn't viable with no way to fail at the bottom without immanent paraplegia, leg press seems is my only option. Also front squat, but I haven't tested my max.

    How does this look? % start slightly lower because I've SD'd.

    M - 10-15 singles @ 85%-90%
    Work Down Sets: 1x2 @ 85%, 1x3 @ 80%, 1x5 @ 75% [20-25 reps total]

    W - Dead-Stop Leg Press 4x3 @ 75% - 80%
    Speed Sets Sumo DL 5x4 @ 70% [32 reps total]

    F - 5-6 doubles @ 80%-85%
    Speed Sets Sumo DL 5x4 @ 70% [25-26 reps total] or Workout Sets??
    Light set of squats because I'd like to keep it in the wheelhouse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  17. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Weighed in today at 164lb, after sweat-inducing cardio mind you. Scale in the gym is always finicky. I might increase calories to 3700-4000 a day.

    Sumo Deadlift:
    Warmup: 135lb x 5, 225lb x 5, 275lb x 3
    10x1 @ 300lb (could have been 9 singles...lost count because I got into a drawn-out conversation with someone)
    290lb x 2, 270lb x 3, 250b x 2 (planned on 5 but just pooped out)

    Bench Press:
    Warmup: 95lb x 5, 115lb x 5
    2x15 @ 135lb

    Weighted Pullups:
    Warmup: BW x 5
    Belt + 15lb x 15

    Decline Situps (didn't feel like Ab Ripper X today lol):
    Warmup: BW x 20
    25lb Plate x 15

    E-Z Bar Concentration Curls:
    Bar [weight unknown] + 25lb x 15
    ______________________________________________________

    Deadlift % were scaled back by 5% because I deconditioned. So I did 300lb instead of 320lb. It got hard near the end but it wasn't horrible. I'll probably be at 90% 1RM (about 320lb) by week 3 and then go from there. Had about 2 minutes between singles for the first 5 singles and then increased to 3 minutes when it started getting harder.

    Could have probably knocked out 25 reps of 135lb on bench on the second set. Didn't expect it to feel that strong just back from SD.
     
  18. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Get rid of the EZ bar work. It's literally accomplishing nothing when you have deads and pull ups.
     
  19. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Was on the fence about getting rid of them. It is only 1 set but I'll take your advice.

    A couple of questions since strength-based programming is brand-spankin' new to me:

    How should I handle progression? Say 90% to 100% 1RM on singles/85%-95% 1RM on doubles/80-90ish% 1RM on triples w/ leg press over a cycle, moving up by 10lb a week, or just stick at the current % until I feel stronger there and test a new max? I assume I should keep speed sets about 70% 1RM throughout the entire cycle.

    And what should rest look like? I did 2-3 minutes between singles yesterday but I suppose I can decrease it.
     
  20. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    If your rest periods between singles at 90% is less than 3minutes, you're going to take a lot of steps backward, and in quick fashion, or hurt yourself.
     

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