The Ultimate Diet version 2.0

[Claudio]

Blade - Is that how you will incorporate the diet into HST, by making use of large increments and 1 week cycles?

Even then a heavy day of 15's is far off his saturday power w/o but allowances have to be made I guess.

Aaron - Are you the powerlifter he quotes in the book who lost weight while maintaining performance?

 

[ttboyy2k]

I am going to start Lyle's UD2 on Monday Sept. 22, 2003. But I am not going to alter my current HST routine. My question is how much cardio would I need and what kind, sprinting or cardio and or both to meet Lyle's glycogen depletion in a 4 day period?

 

[Chupacabra]

Quote[/b] (ttboyy2k @ Sep. 17 2003,6:17)]I am going to start Lyle's UD2 on Monday Sept. 22, 2003. But I am not going to alter my current HST routine. My question is how much cardio would I need and what kind, sprinting or cardio and or both to meet Lyle's glycogen depletion in a 4 day period?

For kicks I tried Lyle's recommended Monday workout the other day. Based on that experience I'd suggest not worrying about cardio until Wednesday or so, if then.

I've been bulking for the past three months, and the Monday workout still had me whining like a bitch at the end. That workout twice a week on low carbs and calories is going to suck @$$, but if that workout doesn't deplete your glycogen levels all by its lonesome, you're not working hard enough.

 

[Claudio]

Chupa - tt was saying he'd add cardio because he was gonna do the diet while training in HST fashion so he needed the extra cardio to aid depletion.

On a personal note I think, after 3 months of dieting I will give the maintenance/growth version of the diet a runout since I think this will allow regular HST training to be used w/o the hassle of training mondays/tuesdays on as severely a low cal/carb state. I think as was said earlier this is the best fit for HST.

I will follow Blade's advice in his earlier post regarding increments. Hopefully, I can add muscle w/o as much fat gain as has been the case in the past (Could do with a fingers croosed incon here).

 

[zafh]

Quote[/b] ]Of course, Lyle's approach is to deplete glycogen stores at the begining of each week. That requires high volume in the gym, which in turn requires that you use lighter weights at the begining of each week. The heavy workouts at the end of the week are to try to get some growth and/or prevent muscle loss.

Could you comment on why you think he chose this style of training??
While you need to do the high reps to deplete, won't a HST style workout of submaximal loads be better for the hypertrophy part??
Zaf

 

[morded]

why couldn't you do your normal workout, and then just do some overall body high rep circuit on days one and two after the core lifting movements of your routine? Also unless i misunderstood lyle in the book, if you are doing a tkd and it is working for you, then there is no reason to switch. why fix it if it isn't broken? I ran this little blurb by swolecat and that was essentially his statement also about staying with what has been working for you. So i am not currently going to switch to the diet ud2.0 I have read both of the books. the ud2.0 is a lot easier to read. I carb loaded yersterday and i have already gotten that keto taste back in my mouth. I didn't even do the two normal days of diet. i am not so sure they are an ultimate needed part of the routine for every one. why not just let your body do its thing on saturday and sunday and by tuesday you will be carb low again. Just a thought.

 

[morded]

So I think that really the point seems to be depletion of the carb stores those first few days. I could be wrong, but that it what I got from my first quick perusal of ud2.0

 

[zafh]

Quote[/b] (zafh @ Sep. 20 2003,8:49)]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] (Bryan Haycock @ Sep. 16 2003,8:56)]

Quote[/b] ]Of course, Lyle's approach is to deplete glycogen stores at the begining of each week. That requires high volume in the gym, which in turn requires that you use lighter weights at the begining of each week. The heavy workouts at the end of the week are to try to get some growth and/or prevent muscle loss.

Could you comment on why you think he chose this style of training??
While you need to do the high reps to deplete, won't a HST style workout of submaximal loads be better for the hypertrophy part??
Zaf

Bump for Bryan.

I am really interested in Bryan's thoughts on this.


Zaf

 

[Ryan]

Quote[/b] (zafh @ Sep. 23 2003,4:31)]

Quote[/b] (zafh @ Sep. 20 2003,8:49)]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] (Bryan Haycock @ Sep. 16 2003,8:56)]

Quote[/b] ]Of course, Lyle's approach is to deplete glycogen stores at the begining of each week. That requires high volume in the gym, which in turn requires that you use lighter weights at the begining of each week. The heavy workouts at the end of the week are to try to get some growth and/or prevent muscle loss.

Could you comment on why you think he chose this style of training??
While you need to do the high reps to deplete, won't a HST style workout of submaximal loads be better for the hypertrophy part??
Zaf

Bump for Bryan.
I am really interested in Bryan's thoughts on this.
Zaf

As an addendum to that question. Bryan, if one were going to use HST wouldn't tons of cardio be necesary when the user is at the 5 rep level? Are the depletion days a great time to add in drops sets for the depletion?

Many users that want to stick to HST and use UD2 would appreciate a micro-cycle look at how you would apply your depletion technique across the different weeks of the HST macro-cycle.

 

[Steve McDermott]

I haven't had a chance to read UD 2.0 yet, but I will tell you that adding drop sets, or more acurately double drop sets, is a great way to deplete glycogen. You really need to push these to the point of being uncomfortable though. Throughout the 5s during this cycle I've been doing two sets of each exercise with at least a double drop set at the end of the second set of everything. It has been working very well.

 

[imported_guyben]

It's intersting how much everyone is talking about -losing- weight (fat, I know) and how I just can't seem to put ANY weight no matter how much I eat.
I have put on lean muscle but I'm sure if I could just manage to eat more than maintenance I would gain much much more...the question is what the f$#^ is my maintenance level ? My weight is around 60kg and I've tried eating 4000 calories a day for about 3 weeks without ANY weight gains what so ever. My activity level is light, my only activity is workouts 3 times a week.
Please help...?
No calculation of calories intake seem to work for me

.

 

[boggy]

guyben start a new thread about your problem and post the diet you followed while you was eating 4000 cals. I am sure someone will help you.

 

[Guest]

little question about how to adapt the diet exactly to hst...blade allready gave some advices some replies before

In my mind I am creating the following idea, what about depleting a whole week and overfeeding a whole week like

first 3 workouts of 15's depleting then, the next week start two or 3 days loading and then keep overfeeding during the week...so you would always overfeed during the time the workouts are getting heavy - maximum...and depleting to the startwheigts of each rep-minicycle..?!?!

the other thing I am thinking about is to deplete during 2 weeks and overfeed 2 weeks...so to use for example the 15's for depleting, the 10s for loading and overfeeding, 5's for depleting and negatives for load/overfeed...

of course you couldnt drop your calories down to 50% of maintenance...but thats just a question of adjustment...

what do you think about the 2 ideas in generall or what are you doing right now to combine the two?

ps: should you use drop sets only during 5s and negeatives? I now the dont make much sense during 15's but what about 10's? and how many drop sets do you do...? lets say you do 4 sets (2 different exercices) for all of the big muscles, you would do a drop set at the 4th and last set of any muscle?

thanks guys...

 

[Cold Steel]

"Many users that want to stick to HST and use UD2 would appreciate a micro-cycle look at how you would apply your depletion technique across the different weeks of the HST macro-cycle."

Bump for this.

 

[Guest]

hmm maybe Ill do microcycles but 6 workouts in one week...(with a high bulking at the end and the right supps) or I will do it over the 2 week period...but thx...

 

[imported_fuzz]

Lyle has spoken about combining HST w/ UD2 over on his forum (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/) - and basically, he said the two shouldn't be mixed.

Of course, Lyle is a stubborn @$$ at times, and I imagine its possible to combine the two effectively.

 

[imported_edziu]

He is a "stubborn @$$" who tends to have very good reasons for being a "stubborn @$$."

HST is optimized for muscle stimulus -- growth when bulking, preservation when cutting. Other factors are coincidental.

UD2 is optimized for fat loss -- muscle preservation is important, but secondary.

They are optimized for different purposes; you should expect them to be different. The degree to which they're similar should be a surprise. And if you combine them, you will be doing neither; the changes you make mean you are no longer optimized for one or the other.

It's like standging by the left wall of a room, or the right wall of a room -- either is the optimal "end of the room." Standing in the middle of the room doesn't mean you're on both ends; it means you're on neither.

So do HST; when you want to cut, cut. If you want to cut as fast as possible and are willing to risk slightly more muscle loss, do UD2.

 

[Claudio]

I have a training log over at avant labs detailing my HST/UD2 hybrid. I am using the mass version of UD2 and sticking to HST principles. So far, I am leaner AND have gained muscle. And this was from a starting position of me being lean as well. So I would disagree that the two can't be combined. As someone who has always gained a fair amount of fat when bulking even with HST, this combination has worked extremely well so far.

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] ]Aaron - Are you the powerlifter he quotes in the book who lost weight while maintaining performance?

Probably not, its one of the other mfw'ites I think.
But I havent read the book.

Quote[/b] ]Lyle has spoken about combining HST w/ UD2 over on his forum (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/) - and basically, he said the two shouldn't be mixed.

Of course, Lyle is a stubborn @$$ at times, and I imagine its possible to combine the two effectively.

in the main part that i have read from him on it, it wasnt as if the two shouldnt be mixed. But if you wanted to keep training identical to the origonal HST framework, then do another diet.

 

[imported_fuzz]

Just to add to Claudio's point, there are several of us using the straight up UD2 at www.avantlabs.com forum in the training log, if anyone is interested in watching our progress. Also, there are some folks at www.wannabebig.com using the UD2. So far, I would say the results from everyone look very positive.