The Ultimate Diet version 2.0

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by ttboyy2k, Sep 11, 2003.

  1. ttboyy2k

    ttboyy2k New Member

    Has anybody got a copy of Lyle's new diet book? If so, what do you think about it? Also, where can I get a copy of it at?
     
  2. Steve McDermott

    Steve McDermott New Member

    Right now, only a select few have the complete diet. Lyle mentioned that it should be out very soon on his site in .PDF format and the print version would be later than that. There is a thread at avant where he talks about it.
     
  3. Cliner9er

    Cliner9er New Member

    What is Lyle's website? I can not find it.
     
  4. Steve McDermott

    Steve McDermott New Member

    I think it is Lyle's page

    I could be wrong though. If I am , just google for Lyle's name.
     
  5. Blade

    Blade Super Moderator Staff Member

    Truly a great book. A recommended read for everyone! [​IMG]
     
  6. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    I havent read it in one cohesive production, but individually it was excellent. Extremely worth reading for anyone who wants to try a more extreme diet without losing strength
     
  7. Esperantistino

    Esperantistino New Member

    I have the ketogenic diet book and plan to buy the Ultimate Diet book as well. It seems to be on sale already, but there were some probs with setting up the 'sales'.
    I'm very curious...

    By the way, I'm now in my 2nd cycle of HST, after having stopped the first one after the 4th week when I went on hols. Only re-started on Sept 1.
    I've noticed that I now really NEED that weekend refeed even though I was doing a TKD-approach. Friday's 15rep max workout really did me in, esp. since I was also doing physiotherapy for my knee (so the entire workout takes 1,5 hrs rather than 45 mins)

    Espi
     
  8. ttboyy2k

    ttboyy2k New Member

    It's finally available @ lyle's websiet www.theketogenicdiet.com.
     
  9. I bought the UD2 today and skimmed it over lunch - it seems very impressive. Lyle breaks down a whole lot of recent research about leptin, dieting, hypertrophy, and the body in general in a very easy to understand way. The diet looks like it will work very well for the dedicated lifter.

    Highly recommended.
     
  10. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    If you liked the CKD, this will be right up your alley, I did it origonally for a few weeks, with no real loss of strength, but dropped 5-6kg. But i injured myself on the first week [​IMG]
     
  11. ttboyy2k

    ttboyy2k New Member

    The workout routine Lyle suggests in the UD2 is not based on HST's principles. You basically do lots of volume in a few workouts and then move to a power lifting routine at the end of the week. So your muscles are being exposed to different loads throughout the week. Could one still be successful at fat loss using HST and Lyle's UD2 just skipping his workout routine?
     
  12. Esperantistino

    Esperantistino New Member

    These are my thoughts exactly.. and actually I asked on Lyle's board how to combine HST with a ketodiet or his UD2.
    Now I'm back on HST, I find it a lot harder to be low-carbing. Should I adapt HST to the diet or vice versa?

    Espi
     
  13. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Of course, Lyle's approach is to deplete glycogen stores at the begining of each week. That requires high volume in the gym, which in turn requires that you use lighter weights at the begining of each week. The heavy workouts at the end of the week are to try to get some growth and/or prevent muscle loss.

    I deplete and load each week on my current diet but I use HST. I haven't found that the degree of "depletion" directly corelates to the amount of fat lost each week. Instead, I have found that the volume of exercise in general, or in other words, the total amount of exercise does corelate, even if I compensate with higher carbs...

    Now, Lyle's diet will work, I'm not saying anything to the contrary. I'm just saying for "me" I've benefited from keeping the weight loads heavier, and using cardio rather than reps to cut into stubborn fat. In addition, I can't eat as many carbs as he recommends without getting gastric upset... I have good results with less carbs during the repletion phase.

    If you don't like cardio, go ahead and do the depleting workouts as Lyle outlines. They will work great. Plus, for some the additional training, although lighter, will still help to maintain lean mass.

    On a side note, lifting light in the begning of the week and heavy at the end has been studied and was found effective for strength gains.(Rhea MR, Ball SD, Phillips WT, Burkett LN.
    A comparison of linear and daily undulating periodized programs with equated volume and intensity for strength.
    J Strength Cond Res. 2002 May;16(2):250-5.)
     
  14. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Oh yeah, and Lyle did a great job on the book. [​IMG]
     
  15. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    While the gastric upset is common (well most cant avoid some problems when stuffing down 10-15g/kg lbm carbs) you probably have good results with less carbs at the end because you are having more carbs durign the week.

    I trialed it for a few weeks (4 properly, 3 not so good) and dropped a few kg, but dont know if the result was much better than normal. But I didnt do any cardio.
    The carb loads were massive tho, I was getting in the region of 1000-1200g carbs in around 10 hours or so. Not the most comfortable feeling in the world.

    But I still wonder if the massive carb load, with added creatine and vinegar had something to do with my chest strain I suffered on the first heavy day...
     
  16. Claudio

    Claudio New Member

    I am just halfway reading the book but flicking ahead a few chapters can see as well that Lyle is recommending a style training very unlike HST. I am surprised at this since I have seen him commend HST very highly elsewhere.

    Aaron - What style of training did you utilise while on the UD2?

    I was thinking (once I've read the pamphlet completely) and finished my SD of trying thw two together. Although I've read this is not recommended apparently because of the low cals/carbs I was thinking of adopting sessions 1 and 4 in each two week HST block as my depletion workouts and leaving the rest of HST as is and varying sets, reps according to the diet's demands. Has anyone tried the two (HST and UD2) together?
     
  17. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    I used a PL style program, cos thats what I do at the momnet.
    But i think its possible to work the two together. Basically do shortned cycles, 1 week to peak rather than 2, and use larger steps. Do mon/tue as the first two days,and use that to deplete and do another deplete on thursday (light) if possible. Then reload nad on the saturaday (I think thats the way he has it set up) do the final, heavy RM workout.

    But do the 6 week cycle, but do RM each week for say 15, 12, 10, 8, 5+drop, neg+drop
    or something similar. Wouldnt be fun, but it could work.
     
  18. Blade

    Blade Super Moderator Staff Member

    It's no problem adapting this diet to HST, when you understand the mechanisms. So for depletion, you could use 15s - given the immense caloric deficit, there is no need for the heavy work here. The so-called 'tension' workout is lower volume, and you can do 1-2 sets of whichever rep range you're in 15s/10s or 5s with dropsets on some exercises. For the 'power' or muscle-building workout, you just make sure to use a sufficient increment during 15s and 10s. You can probably tolerate more sets, at least during 5s (3-4 sets per exercise, mostly compounds).

    The carbloading is a lot easier if you start off with liquids - e.g. 2 shakes of 150-200g of carbs + 30g of protein spaced 1-1.5hrs apart is an easy 300-400g. In fact, glucose polymers/maltodextrin/dextrose/Vitargo shakes with some protein can be used for every other meal. Bloating and distention is less if you focus on getting enough fluids (1g of carbs needs 3-4g of fluid). Vinegar also helps. Some carb sources will also bloat you less, this seems to be individual. Rice and cereals are horrible for me personally, while pasta is a breeze.
     
  19. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Lyle loves bagels from memory :)

    I always did a mixture of solids and liquids, as well as the ever delicious glucose lollies :)

    I would have been pushing something up hill to get that many carbs in with solids.
     
  20. It should be no surprise. Lyle is recommending an exercise routine which, with his diet routine, is more optimal for fat loss than anything else he's seen out there. HST is optimal for muscle growth. If the two exercise routines were the same, THEN I'd be surprised!

    HST is great for cutting if you're trying to retain as much muscle mass as possible -- HST creates an excellent muscle stimulus, which will cause growth when gaining, and retention when cutting. But that doesn't mean HST will case the very best or fastest weight loss; that's where Lyle's anyalysis comes in.

    Any similarities between the two stem from the fact that Lyle is trying to limit the weight loss to fat, and therefore needs to impose an effective muscle stimulus; any differences stem from the fact that Lyle is optimizing for fat loss.
     

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