Simplify and Win!

Hi:

I'm new to HST, and I first posted in the "Training Logs" section asking for help with a routine. I haven't gotten a response yet, so I thought I would try this section. I was looking for an upper-body routine, since I'll be running heavily on my off-days.

I came across an old post by Cold Zero, who was looking for the same thing. He posted the following:

A:
Bench Press
Pullups
Military press
Abs

B:
Bent-over rows
Dips
Laterals
Abs

I'm familiar with the exercises except "laterals" - do these refer to lateral raises?

And what do people think of that A/B split?
 
ilias said:
I'm familiar with the exercises except "laterals" - do these refer to lateral raises?

And what do people think of that A/B split?
Click to expand...


Hi,

Yeah, I would imagine, in that context, they would refer to a variation of side raises. Either with dumbbells or a machine?
Both work fine, when you alternate them with proper shoulder presses, as he suggested.

Yes. The routine, as an upper body only, looks ideal. Not too much, compound only (with the exception of the lat raises)
You still may want to consider at least one day a week (a day when you dont run) for squats/deadlifts/leg presses. Something compound and heavy, just to balance out all the running.
Its a completely different form of exercise, and I think you should incorporate at least some heavy weights work for your legs.

Good luck

Brix
 
Yeah, the training logs section is mostly for actual training logs, so I wouldn't recommend posting in there asking for help.

As Brix said, even if you want to do upper body only, it would be a good idea to devote one day to a heavy compound that hits the legs as well. I would recommend deadlifts as those work the whole back very well. If you are considering that, then I would modify the routine you posted as follows:

A:
Bench Press
Bent-over rows
Military press
Abs

B:
Deadlift
Dips
Chins
Laterals

You don't want to row on deadlift days, but I think that chins or pulldowns are acceptable with deadlifts. Also, no need to directly hit abs on deadlift day.
 
I just found my maxes, and have a few more questions:

1) What is the difference between military press and a standing DB shoulder press? They seem to be very similar and work the same muscles. Can I use the latter as a substitute for the former?
2) For some lifts, I can only lift very low weights. How would I structure the weight progression for the 2-week blocks? For example, I can only do 15x20lbs for the military press (10lb DB on each arm), and it would be difficult to have a weight progression from 8lbs/arm to 10lbs/arm.
 
1) Not a lot. You're right both are very similar. One is generally with a barbell and one is with dumbbells. Use either - there would be no difference in results. Which ever is more comfortable for your joints.

2) Bear in mind that, as you are alternating between side lateral raises and overhead presses, you will actually only need 3 increments. If your starting weight is so low, there is no harm in repeating a weight two workouts in a row - ie; week 1
Mon w/o = 5lb X 15,
Wedns w/o = lat raises
Fri w/o = 5lb or 7.5lb X 15

week 2
Mon w/o = lat raises
Wedns w/o = 10lb X 15
Fri w/o = lat raises

Hope this helps.

Brix
 
Hey guys, new to HST here. I was hoping to get a critique on what I was planning on doing.

Workout A
Warmup = Jumping Jacks, situps
Squat (with warmup sets as well)
Bench Press (with warmup sets as well)
Seated Cable Row (don't have proper equipment for bent row at gym)

Workout B
Warmup = Jumping Jacks, situps
Deadlift (with warmup sets as well)
Overhead Press
Chin-ups (to work a little more bicep and less back since deads are same day and I want more focus on biceps)

Workouts would alternate A,B,A,B etc on M, W, F.

Weeks 1/2 = 1 set 15 reps
Weeks 3/4 = 1 set 10 reps
Weeks 5/6 = 2 sets 5 reps
Weeks 7/8 = 2 sets 5 reps (same weights as weeks 5/6)

10lbs increments for lower body, 5lbs for upper body. Question by example: Would increments go like M squat 200, W deadlift 220, F squat 220, M deadlift 240 or would it go M squat 200, W deadlift 220, F squat 210, M deadlift 230? In other words, would a deadlift count as an increment increase for squat and vice versa? I guess I have the same question for Bench/Presses too.

Lastly, how would I increment doing chins if I can't even do 15 reps in a set?

I appreciate the help!
 
In answer to your increment question you would do it the second way:

would it go M squat 200, W deadlift 220, F squat 210, M deadlift 230?
Click to expand...

I like how nice and simple your workout is, just one each push, pull, leg. Just a couple thoughts on your exercises selection. If you want to keep it simple doing one each push, pull and legs then you might consider doing both the Bench Press and the Overhead Press with a slight incline so that you get more crossover between the chest and shoulders on each exercises. So something like Incline Bench and Incline Seated Shoulder Press.

Also depending on how you do your Squats and Deadlifts you might want to add in a Hamstring exercise each day for balance. If you use a very wide stance for those lifts you will already get a lot of hamstring involvement which probably wouldn’t need anything else for balance. However, if you use a conventional Deadlift stance and narrow (shoulder width) squat stance then you really should consider adding in something like leg curls to balance out your leg development. Probably not going to be a big deal for just one cycle but over time you’ll get better leg development doing some direct hamstring work.

As for the chins the ideal way is an assisted Chin Up machine. Another way is to start doing your chins on a Lat-Pull machine and once you reach your bodyweight switch over to Chin Ups. If neither option is available I would just do as many Chin Ups in one set as you can without going to failure and then cluster or doing singles to reach your target reps 15, 10 etc. . . . Just make sure you don’t go to failure except perhaps one every 2 weeks or even better wait until the end of the cycle to go for an all out set to see how many you can do.
 
grunt11 said:
In answer to your increment question you would do it the second way:



I like how nice and simple your workout is, just one each push, pull, leg. Just a couple thoughts on your exercises selection. If you want to keep it simple doing one each push, pull and legs then you might consider doing both the Bench Press and the Overhead Press with a slight incline so that you get more crossover between the chest and shoulders on each exercises. So something like Incline Bench and Incline Seated Shoulder Press.

Also depending on how you do your Squats and Deadlifts you might want to add in a Hamstring exercise each day for balance. If you use a very wide stance for those lifts you will already get a lot of hamstring involvement which probably wouldn’t need anything else for balance. However, if you use a conventional Deadlift stance and narrow (shoulder width) squat stance then you really should consider adding in something like leg curls to balance out your leg development. Probably not going to be a big deal for just one cycle but over time you’ll get better leg development doing some direct hamstring work.

As for the chins the ideal way is an assisted Chin Up machine. Another way is to start doing your chins on a Lat-Pull machine and once you reach your bodyweight switch over to Chin Ups. If neither option is available I would just do as many Chin Ups in one set as you can without going to failure and then cluster or doing singles to reach your target reps 15, 10 etc. . . . Just make sure you don’t go to failure except perhaps one every 2 weeks or even better wait until the end of the cycle to go for an all out set to see how many you can do.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the feedback! :D

As for exercise selection, I think I'll keep it the same. I agree with your comments, but I really don't want to add more exercises due to time constraints. Luckily, I do squats past parallel, so my hamstrings get plenty of involvement. My deadlifts are a little narrow and I obviously don't go past parallel, so there is limited hamstring involvement there... I'll just take the sacrafice.

For the chin-ups, I have both machines available to me... I will probably opt for the assisted until I can do them on my own.

Thanks again.
 
Food for thought: I guess it really depends on how many situps you're doing, but I have no interest in doing abs before I do heavy squats or deadlifts. I also don't like doing overhead press (I assume you're talking about standing) after deadlifts. My back is usually pretty shot after DLs, and overhead pressing just makes it worse.

I like your schedule, but If I was doing it, I would swap the days I do the bench and OHP.


WBartlett said:
Hey guys, new to HST here. I was hoping to get a critique on what I was planning on doing.

Workout A
Warmup = Jumping Jacks, situps
Squat (with warmup sets as well)
Bench Press (with warmup sets as well)
Seated Cable Row (don't have proper equipment for bent row at gym)

Workout B
Warmup = Jumping Jacks, situps
Deadlift (with warmup sets as well)
Overhead Press
Chin-ups (to work a little more bicep and less back since deads are same day and I want more focus on biceps)

Workouts would alternate A,B,A,B etc on M, W, F.

Weeks 1/2 = 1 set 15 reps
Weeks 3/4 = 1 set 10 reps
Weeks 5/6 = 2 sets 5 reps
Weeks 7/8 = 2 sets 5 reps (same weights as weeks 5/6)

10lbs increments for lower body, 5lbs for upper body. Question by example: Would increments go like M squat 200, W deadlift 220, F squat 220, M deadlift 240 or would it go M squat 200, W deadlift 220, F squat 210, M deadlift 230? In other words, would a deadlift count as an increment increase for squat and vice versa? I guess I have the same question for Bench/Presses too.

Lastly, how would I increment doing chins if I can't even do 15 reps in a set?

I appreciate the help!
Click to expand...
 
Clayton, thanks for the feedback. I prefer to perform the larger exercises first since they are more important to me. I also prefer to keep bench/row on same day and dead/press same day. I like working in the same plane. :)

I do have another question about my plan though. Since I'll be rotating workouts, I'll either need to turn each 2 week cycle into 4 weeks (keeping 6 increments) or using only 3 increments to keep them 2 weeks. Is there a preferred method?
 
Generally most people use only 3 increments instead. However, if you don't mind a longer cycle, then extending each microcycle to 4 weeks is definitely an option.
 
Totentanz said:
Generally most people use only 3 increments instead. However, if you don't mind a longer cycle, then extending each microcycle to 4 weeks is definitely an option.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I assume I'd just take 70% of my maxes, subtract the difference and divide to get the increments to the nearest 5lbs? Example: 200lbs max, so 140lbs min, 60 divided by 3 gives 20lbs increments.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I'm doing things correctly.
 
It would actually be 60 divided by 2, so 30 lb increments - 140, 170, 200 - but yes, that is basically the essence of it.
 
how does this sound for a beginner...Im actually not gonna start a cycle till i get my compunds up.... what exercises would you add or alternate?

Chinups/Pullups
Squats
Deadlifts
Incline Bench/Dips
Military press
Abs
 
Hi,

I'm new to HST (I posted in this thread a little while back asking for advice), and I'm currently on the 3rd cycle (each cycle = 6 weeks of lifting and 1.5 weeks of SD). The problem is that I'm reaching the limit for a few lifts, such as Chin-ups (the underhand grip one) and Lateral Raises, while still improving nicely on other lifts, such as Bench Press and Deadlifts.

This pattern fits my previous weight-lifting experience: my arms are comparatively weak, while my chest is comparatively strong. What I want to know is how do I work through it? I definitely want to continue making progress in those weaker lifts.

For reference here are my targets for the current cycle:

15s
Chin-ups: -30lbs (it's negative because I'm using an assist machine)
Lateral Raises: 22.5lbs

10s:
Chin-ups: -15lbs
Lateral Raises: 27.5lbs

5s:
Chin-ups: 0lbs
Lateral Raises: 30lbs

Cheers,
ilias
 
Last edited:
I dunno, Ilias, it seems to me that your progress looks okay. By the time you finish your cycle you'll be doing body weight chins. That's not bad. Then perhaps your next cycle you could hope to hang some weight off your belt when you get to your 5's week.

Many folks have a hard time improving their chins. It's hard when you have to start at body weight. Since you have access to a chin-assist machine, just plan to decrease the weight a bit each workout. Progressive loading and frequent workouts are helpful both for hypertrophy and for strength.
 
As for chins-up, my advice would be to add Rack Chins instead of chins-up. If you never heard of rack chins, it is an exercise popularized a lot by the DC trainees as shown here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM-b4qOOWsE

Lot easier, especially for heavier dude like myself. It work great.

And while being here, here is my simplify and win opinion about HST, using A-B exercise :

Squat - Deadlift
Bench Press - Dips
Db Row - Rack chins
Mil. Press - Lat. raise (mainly for width)
Hammer Curl - BB Curl (some biceps because tri's get enough work from the presses and dips imo)

Simple and quick!
 
Hello all, I have been following this thread (and forum) for months and am finally making my first post.

Just finished my 4th week of HST and starting the 5s next week. My routine (ABA/BAB) is as follows:

Workout A
Squat
Bench
Row
DB Press
Abs

Workout B
DL
DB Incline
Lat Pulldown
Lateral Raise
Seated Calf Raise

So one thing I didn't anticipate is that I would increase my DB Incline to the point where I will max out my gym's DB's (80lbs) in the second workout of 5s. Is there anything I can do to keep the progress going? Should I ditch the DB's and move to BB incline for the 5s? Or maybe do 6-7 reps when I finish 80X5X3 to keep progressing?

Thanks in advance!
 
Since you are only in the second workout of the 5s I would change over to BB and keep progressing the weight, with the understanding that you might have to jump the weight up a little higher since you should be able to BB Press more than you can DB Press.

I have done this before and it works just fine. However, I did it so I could combine both DB Presses and BB Presses in the same cycle without having to add an extra exercise. I felt this gave me the best of both worlds, DB Press when the weights were light enough I could handle them and heavier BB Presses when the weights got heavier.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top