5*5  vs HST

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(quadancer @ Dec. 27 2006,14:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(drpierredebs @ Dec. 27 2006,00:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I am at 96 kilos as I sit on the crapper typing this email.</div>
...before you sat down...
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Yes, B4 I sat
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Enjoy the 5 x 5, you may get hooked. Try a 4 week 10 x 3 cycle after your first
5 x 5 cycle.

DOn´t blow off the assistance movements during the 5 x 5 otherwise your squat and deads may suffer as you hit the &quot;Manly&quot; poundage!
 
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(Totentanz @ Dec. 27 2006,10:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(drpierredebs @ Dec. 26 2006,23:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Totentanz @ Dec. 26 2006,17:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How important do you all feel benching is in the 5x5?  I don't think bench is that necessary for overall strength...  I'm starting out a 5x5 cycle right now that focuses on squats, bentover rows and then clean and press on Mons and Fris, benching only on Weds when I deadlift.</div>
I just thought about this some more and I think the Benching IS important if you are doing olympic style weight lifting. I think it is important for balancing out and supporting the shoulder girdle and upper back when you are doing movements like the Clean and jerk and any other movement where a heavy weight is basicllay thrown above the head.

For me, benching is unimportant because it is stronger than I can ever imagine needing to be and I ain´t clean and jerking (usually it is the otherway around, harharhar)</div>
You're probably right.  My bench is fairly weak.  I can barely incline bench over my bodyweight.  But...  I think once a week benching might be enough for now, and only once 5x5 cycle shouldn't do any (or much) damage.

Well... for this cycle, I'm going to just go ahead and experiment a bit.  I'll do Squats, Clean and Press, Rows on Monday, along with 2x8 weighted hypers and situps.  On Weds, I'll do light squats, then deads and incline bench.  Only 4 sets of each on Weds, along with 2x8 dips and chins.  Then on Fri I'll do the same exercises as on monday.  It'll basically be the intermediate version, except only 3 sets ramping up the weight instead of 4 and 2 top sets each workout (except Weds squats, obviously...)

My goals... higher squat, higher row, higher clean and press.  Heh.  My 5 RM for bentover rows is 255, so I'd like to see at least 275.</div>
When I realized that my Bench 1RM was way too close to my 1RM squat, IT kinda gave me the motivation to drop benching and direct chest work. When my shoulder starting acting up, it was the proverbial nail in the coffin for benching for me.

I will not ever enter a bench contest anyway.

Another problem with too much benching is that the pec growth overpowers the back muscles which pull the shoulder blades together and also the rear delts get screwed.

I think if you do highly efficient chest worl, once a week should get you some good results.

Are you dipping heavy?

I have rowed for so long, and it really developed my back to where I can sart hitting heavy weights for squats and deads. PLUS chins are no longer a weak point for me.

For the next several months, I am dropping back squats and will do a an AB workout M:A W:B F:A etc....

A:
Front Squats 5 x 5
Deads 10 x 3
MP 10 x 3
Chins 5 x 5 plus weight
Dips 5 x 5 plus weights

B:
Front Squats 10 x 3
Bent Pendly Rows 10 x 3
MP 5 x 5
 
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(drpierredebs @ Dec. 27 2006,15:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Enjoy the 5 x 5 said:
Question [/u]for you guys: my max is 550 squat in my lever machine (I found it's about 20% over freeweight, for a reference) and I incremented the poundages by 12% - which wound up my day's max at 420...breathing hard and a couple small 'grunts'. I'm wondering if this isn't a little too ambitious of a start.
On the other hand, my new T-bar machine gave me a max of 215, which I thought was pitiful, until I remembered that I used to just do five plates in my prime (that's 225- I don't count the bar in these), which just shows that HST really DOES build strength...and I just started doing these instead of cable rows!
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depending on how you up the weights from workout to workout, you´ll know soon enough if you started to high. It happened to me. You´ll be doing your second set of 5 during squats when you realize hell is the next set.

BTW, you won´t sweat as much as you will if you do a 10 x 3.
I rarely sweat with 5 x 5 but then again I wasn´t go so fast with the reps.
If you go for speed, you´ll start sweating soon enough!
 
At this point I have the two weeks of HST 10's, and a week of the stock 5x5 in. My strengths are shooting up FAST and I feel solid. I'm also doing the core exersizes and more, along with some dance skating for cardio. My arms have shrunk a bit lately, so I'll be watching them closely on this once-a-week arm routine.
Amazingly, the T-bar rows are now EQUAL to my former MAX of 225x5! Squats went up, but I'm close to the line at 430 allready. They may be the first thing to zigzag. Or they may continue to climb due to the very nature of the program setup; I don't know.

What is missing for me is shrugs. I feel the need to incorporate them, but fridays are out, since there are the arms and core iso's after the workout. I'm wondering if I should maybe just do them on an offday or put a split in a day. I hate splits, but one exersize wouldn't bother me too much if I find time for it.

As a side note, I tried the Vitargo. Bigger pump post workout. Feels about the same as maltodextrin and dextrose, except for no bloated stomach.
 
Now that you are deadlifting again, you probably don't really need shrugs. If you are like me and feel incomplete without doing them, shrugging at the top of the deadlift will finish you off.

Because of your back history, don't do like I did and start the deadlift with the intent of a shrug making it a &quot;dynamic&quot; shrug. For me, this was a recipe for injury. Now I just do the dead, pause a second then shrug the weight before putting it back down.

Hmmm, another good reason for me to keep saving for the trap bar and actually spending the money without ticking the old lady off........
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Personally, I'd really rather not mix exersizes, as I'm really big on focus when I lift, and of course, the 5x5 is for maximal strength, so all the more important. And also, for me, my 315 DL isn't even a warmup for shrugs. Of course, my DL will be enough one day soon.
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Bummer on the shrugs.

I'd probably throw them in on a short day or an off day. Maybe add them on light squat day or something?
 
I may be wanting to do that, but also, my arms have shrunk a bit for various reasons...down to 16-1/4&quot; now. I'm concerned about the one day arm iso's in the 5x5 program being enough. I mean, I WANT to believe it's enough, but I feel like I'm risking further losses.
Maybe 2x a week?

Progress in the strength dept. so far is amazing. Hope it keeps moving up.
 
I don't know man, just keep track of it and give it enough time to be sure if you need it or not. My 16's that I was so proud to finally get with HST shrunk down almost to 15's again during my month of not training and barely training. Moving in the right direction again with only 1 arm day...and just 3 sets on that day.

Can't forget that overheads and bench works the tris, pullups and rows work the bis. I'm rowing 160-180 right now depending on where in the week I'm at, pulling BW (195)+55 -that's 250lbs. I sure as hell can't curl that much.

Some need the extra arm work, some don't. Myself, if I do too much they get smaller. If I do less, they seem to grow better. I think I'm the only guy in the world who's ever done clean barbell curls with 155lbs and sub 15&quot; arms...and wondered why I wasn't growing.

I think that's why they grew well on HST. Because even though they were being worked 3x a week, they weren't being worked nearly as heavy since I was using light weights along with the higher frequency.
 
Arm size isn´t that important for squatting
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Aren´t arms the things that attach my hands to my body so that I can deadlift?

You mean they bend?

(Just kidding!)


Well, it is a strength program, and you say you are getting stronger.
 
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(drpierredebs @ Jan. 06 2007,22:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Arm size isn´t that important for squatting
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Aren´t arms the things that attach my hands to my body so that I can deadlift?

You mean they bend?

(Just kidding!)


Well, it is a strength program, and you say you are getting stronger.</div>
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I like that. I don't know why but I really do.

Don't forget though, arms are the things that make the chicas want to come up to you and touch you. &quot;Can I feel your arms&quot;, starts at 16&quot;
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. It stops when you get below that.
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(vagrant @ Jan. 07 2007,10:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
drpierredebs said:
Don't forget though, arms are the things that make the chicas want to come up to you and touch you.  &quot;Can I feel your arms&quot;, starts at 16&quot;
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.  It stops when you get below that.
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my legs get the chicas!
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Haha lets be honest, that's why we do what we do, hours in the gym day after day, drinking that aweful protein shake, eating the steak and chicken, doing the heavy bench and bicep curls...its all so chicks will want come up and touch us...

Btw my new 2-day split program: Mon-Chest, Tues-Biceps, Wed-Chest, Thurs-Biceps
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Workout to end all workouts

Monday-4 x 6 Hammercurls 99%1RM
Tuesdays- 5 x 5 Reverse triple Barbell curls, Standing 75%1RM
Wednesday- 4 x 6 Powerrack Barbell curls-175%1RM
Thursday-10 x 3 Preacher Curls--125% 1RM
Friday- 30 x 5 Seated Barbel curls 75% 1RM
Saturday-10 x 3 Incline Dumbell CUrls-95% 1RM
Sunday- 5 x 5 Repeat Monday through Wednesday workout with 100%1RM
 
Blimey Doc! That's awesome. How can you afford to give away such top training secrets? I like the frequency but I think I'll up the volume a little (or a lot) to give me something to do in the afternoons as well.
 
Onecan simply repeat the workouts: Do an AM and PM with the same exercises for each day.

AM
Monday-4 x 6 Hammercurls 99%1RM
Tuesdays- 5 x 5 Reverse triple Barbell curls, Standing 75%1RM
Wednesday- 4 x 6 Powerrack Barbell curls-175%1RM
Thursday-10 x 3 Preacher Curls--125% 1RM
Friday- 30 x 5 Seated Barbel curls 75% 1RM
Saturday-10 x 3 Incline Dumbell CUrls-95% 1RM
Sunday- 5 x 5 Repeat Monday through Wednesday workout with 100%1RM

THen PM

Monday-4 x 6 Hammercurls 99%1RM
Tuesdays- 5 x 5 Reverse triple Barbell curls, Standing 75%1RM
Wednesday- 4 x 6 Powerrack Barbell curls-175%1RM
Thursday-10 x 3 Preacher Curls--125% 1RM
Friday- 30 x 5 Seated Barbel curls 75% 1RM
Saturday-10 x 3 Incline Dumbell CUrls-95% 1RM
Sunday- 5 x 5 Repeat Monday through Wednesday workout with 100%1RM
 
I am a little worried that this is happening because I am cutting (for the first time ever  
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 ). Anyone else been affected this way? What should I do? Eat a pile of Mars bars? Do more curls?
 
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