Are bent over barbell rows sufficient for rear delt development?

Last I heard it was a predominantly lat exercise, with static trap and lower back load. There are safer ways to do dynamic loading on lower back, like hyperextensions.
 
HST_Rihad said:
Of course not, it's much safer to listen to random advice given on message boards.
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I can't believe you managed to shoot yourself whilst being sarcastic. The original poster (OP) I'm sure is capable of determining their own direction on their exercise selection. However, making unsupported claims with a link to random.website.com doesn't really help, evolve or progress the conversation.

Totentanz said:
Of course they involve the lower back. It's a back exercise.
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Yes, you'd think it's pretty straight forward ...

HST_Rihad said:
Last I heard it was a predominantly lat exercise, with static trap and lower back load. There are safer ways to do dynamic loading on lower back, like hyperextensions.
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How is it physically possible for your trapezius muscles to be uninvolved in this lift, beyond static tension?

Hyper-extensions are not a safe exercise at all.

Totentanz said:
Bentover rows are not a lat exercise. Just look at how the elbow moves.
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I somewhat agree with Sci on this. There's certainly involvement, but I wouldn't say they work them to the same degree that pulls or chins do.
 
In my experience, the traps (and rhomboids) get the brunt of the work for sure, with erector spinae a close second. Lats and all the minor back muscles would be third, as Totentanz pointed out, rows tend to work the trapezius and rhomboids heavily, and lats not as direct.
 
People tend to forget/are not aware that the portion of the trapezius that connects the neck to the shoulders is actually the smaller part/head of the muscle group. It's a giant kite/diamon shaped group that basically runs down the back in thick pipes until it links up w/the erecters.

Regardless - it's a great exercise, and just like a car, it's not dangerous unless/until you misuse it.
 
Traps are the prime mover with rows. Yes, lats get some tension but it's nothing compared to the load the traps take. Nobody got lats from bentover rows alone.
 
If you don't do chin/pull ups, your back won't be much wider than your obliques. :(


And, if you stick to the big compound movements, your rear delts should stay in proportion to the rest of your body. Doing isolations can lead to doing even more isolations to correct perceived weak spots which leads to even more isolations and then you end up a misproportioned, inflexible, crippled mess.
 
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Lats move the elbows back - they are the prime mover. Traps, as biceps and some smaller back/shoulder muscles, are more like synergists. Moreover traps take more load in shrugs with a fraction of lower back load.
 
HST_Rihad said:
Lats move the elbows back - they are the prime mover. Traps, as biceps and some smaller back/shoulder muscles, are more like synergists. Moreover traps take more load in shrugs with a fraction of lower back load.
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I've never seen you do a BB Row, but if your traps aren't carrying the load then I have trouble believing your form is correct. And no, we're not talking about the uppermost heads of the muscle.
 
You're probably talking about relaxing your traps and lowering your shoulders on the way down, and pulling the shoulders back, and squeezing the traps on the way up. Sounds like welcoming a shoulder problem. True, I don't do bent over BB rows any more, but when I did, I made sure to never relax my traps and lower my shoulders. Then it's mostly lats doing the work.
 
No, I'm talking about using the muscles that comprise your back to do an exercise using the back muscles.

I don't understand why you imagine I'm dropping my shoulders down.

You do realise that you can't isolate your lats and trap from each other when doing what we call a 'row' movement ? This isn't a vertical pull (pull/chin) that almost exclusively uses the lats (with minor involvement from muscles surrounding the scapula, the same way a DB overhead has minimal, so not zero, pec involvement).

Take a video of your BB Row form, doing whatever weight (empty bar is fine), and show me how you're doing a row movement whilst not involving traps and lats. It's the equivalent of trying to tell me you can do a squat with quads only and no glutes. I'll believe it when I see it.
 
This guy pretty much shows the correct form, although it's hard to see if his traps are pulled back or not. Suffice it to say they seem to not be moving.
Same plane of motion as seated rows. There's no way to isolate lats or traps with rows, it's a compound movement. It's just that lats are primarily lifting the weight. An analogue would be bench press: pecs (primary movers, bringing your arms towards the body), triceps+delts (secondary synergists). I'm not saying traps aren't needed to perform the lift, it's just not one of the movements they're used primarily for (think shrugs).
 
The major part of the trapezius pull the scapula back. When you row, you have to pull your shoulders back. That is why the traps are the prime mover. Same with rear Delt laterals, the traps and rhomboids are heavily involved in rear deltoid movements, because the rear deltoid pulls the humerus back, (like lats in a row), while the traps pull the shoulder itself back (the scapula).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5sOhwBZon8
 
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