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(Dan Moore @ Dec. 03 2007,08:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(scientific muscle @ Dec. 02 2007,23:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Dan Moore, do you know of any studies which find fatigue as a hypertrophy stimulus benefit? I swear the papers Lyle posted were fairly decent studies in conclusion pointing strongly at fatigue as a significant factor in training response.</div>
He's talking about the Smith Schott studies, they are crap. He's used these same studies over and over again as evidence and the problems with those studies are many.
You couldn't find the studies because he didn't have them, only the abstracts.
What they did was compare long continous
isometrics (higher metabolic cost) versus short isometrics (lower metabolic costs) that matched total time only. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to see that these are very poorly constructed in terms of recruitment between groups.
Also how can one take metabolic change measurements from a group that didn't even show the hypertrophy they are talking about and then draw the conclusion that the hypertrophy seen was because of the higher changes seen in metabolites?
The other one he mentions I'm sure is the Goto et al study.
I've discussed these ad nauseum before. But if you want me to elaborate email me.</div>
Dan, I found them. You are right about which studies he posted abstracts to. And come to think of it, it is true that isometric long vs. short contractions is not anywhere near the same as isotonic contraction with or without rest (max-stim vs, conventional).
Anyway, good point. I haven't bothered arguing with Lyle for a LONG time, since he resorts to insults instead of answering questions politely as yourself.
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1: Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol. 1995;71(4):332-6.
The role of metabolites in strength training. I. A comparison of eccentric and
concentric contractions.
Smith RC, Rutherford OM.
Department of Physiology, St. Mary's Hospital Medical School, London, UK.
This study examined the role of high forces versus metabolic cost in the
adaptations following strength training. Ten young, healthy male and female
subjects trained one leg using concentric (CL) and the other using eccentric (EL)
contractions of the quadriceps muscle for 20 weeks. EL used weights which were
35% higher than those used for CL. Isometric strength, and the length:tension and
force:velocity relationship of the muscle were measured before and after
training. Muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) was measured near the knee and hip
using computed tomography. Increases in isometric strength were greater for CL
compared to EL, the difference being significant with the knee at 1.57 rad (90
degrees) [mean (SD), 43.7 (19.6)% vs 22.9 (9.8)%, respectively; P = 0.01].
Increases in isokinetic strength tended to be larger for EL, although the
differences were not significant. Significant increases in CSA occurred near the
hip for both EL and CL. These results suggest that metabolic cost, and not high
forces alone, are involved in the stimuli for muscle hypertrophy and strength
gains following high-resistance training.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Comparative Study
Controlled Clinical Trial
Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
PMID: 8549576 [Pubmed - indexed for MEDLINE]
2: Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol. 1995;71(4):337-41.
The role of metabolites in strength training. II. Short versus long isometric
contractions.
Schott J, McCully K, Rutherford OM.
Department of Physiology, St. Mary's Hospital Medical School, London, UK.
The role of intramuscular metabolite changes in the adaptations following
isometric strength training was examined by comparing the effect of short,
intermittent contractions (IC) and longer, continuous (CC) contractions. In a
parallel study, the changes in phosphate metabolites and pH were examined during
the two protocols using whole-body nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy
(NMRS). Seven subjects trained three time per week for 14 weeks. The right leg
was trained using four sets of ten contractions, each lasting 3 s with a 2-s rest
period between each contraction and 2 min between each set. The left leg was
trained using four 30-s contractions with a 1-min rest period between each. Both
protocols involved isometric contractions at 70% of a maximum voluntary isometric
contraction (MVC). The MVC, length:tension and force:velocity relationships and
cross-sectional area (CSA) of each leg were measured before and after training.
The increase in isometric strength was significantly greater (P = 0.041) for the
CC leg (median 54.7%; P = 0.022) than for IC (31.5%; P = 0.022). There were no
significant differences between the two protocols for changes in the
length:tension or force:velocity relationships. There were significant increases
in muscle CSA for the CC leg only. NMRS demonstrated that the changes in
phosphate metabolites and pH were greater for the CC protocol. These findings
suggest that factors related to the greater metabolite changes during CC training
results in greater increases in isometric strength and muscle CSA.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Comparative Study
Controlled Clinical Trial
Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
Research Support, U.S. Gov't, P.H.S.
PMID: 8549577 [Pubmed - indexed for MEDLINE]</div>
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Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2005 Jun;37(6):955-63. Links
The impact of metabolic stress on hormonal responses and muscular adaptations.
Goto K, Ishii N, Kizuka T, Takamatsu K.
Institute of Health and Sport Sciences, University of Tsukuba, Tsukuba, Ibaraki, Japan.
PURPOSE: The purpose of this study was to examine the impact of exercise-induced metabolic stress on hormonal responses and chronic muscular adaptations. METHODS: We compared the acute and long-term effects of an "NR regimen" (no-rest regimen) and those of a "WR regimen" (regimen with rest period within a set). Twenty-six male subjects were assigned to either the NR (N = 9), WR (N = 9), or control (CON, N = 8) groups. The NR regimen consisted of 3-5 sets of 10 repetitions at 10-repetition maximum (RM) with an interset rest period of 1 min (lat pulldown, shoulder press, and bilateral knee extension). In the WR regimen, subjects completed the same protocol as the NR regimen, but took a 30-s rest period at the midpoint of each set of exercises in order to reduce exercise-induced metabolic stress. Acute hormonal responses to both regimens were measured followed by a 12-wk period of resistance training. RESULTS: Measurements of blood lactate and serum hormone concentrations after the NR and WR regimens showed that the NR regimen induced strong lactate, growth hormone (GH), epinephrine (E), and norepinephrine (NE) responses, whereas the WR regimen did not. Both regimens failed to cause significant changes in testosterone. After 12 wk of resistance training, the NR regimen caused greater increases in 1RM (P < 0.01), maximal isometric strength (P < 0.05), and muscular endurance (P < 0.05) with knee extension than the WR regimen. The NR group showed a marked increase (P < 0.01) in muscle cross-sectional area, whereas the WR and CON groups did not. CONCLUSION: These results suggest that exercise-induced metabolic stress is associated with acute GH, E, and NE responses and chronic muscular adaptations following resistance training.
***
J Strength Cond Res. 2004 Nov;18(4):730-7. Links
Muscular adaptations to combinations of high- and low-intensity resistance exercises.
Goto K, Nagasawa M, Yanagisawa O, Kizuka T, Ishii N, Takamatsu K.
Institute of Health and Sport Sciences, University of Tsukuba, Tsukuba, Ibaraki, Japan.
Acute and long-term effects of resistance-training regimens with varied combinations of high- and low-intensity exercises were studied. Acute changes in the serum growth hormone (GH) concentration were initially measured after 3 types of regimens for knee extension exercise: a medium intensity (approximately 10 repetition maximum [RM]) short interset rest period (30 s) with progressively decreasing load ("hypertrophy type"
; 5 sets of a high-intensity (90% of 1RM) and low-repetition exercise ("strength type"
; and a single set of low-intensity and high-repetition exercise added immediately after the strength-type regimen ("combi-type"
. Postexercise increases in serum GH concentration showed a significant regimen dependence: hypertrophy-type > combi-type > strength-type (p < 0.05, n = 8). Next, the long-term effects of periodized training protocols with the above regimens on muscular function were investigated. Male subjects (n = 16) were assigned to either hypertrophy/combi (HC) or hypertrophy/ strength (HS) groups and performed leg press and extension exercises twice a week for 10 weeks. During the first 6 weeks, both groups used the hypertrophy-type regimen to gain muscular size. During the subsequent 4 weeks, HC and HS groups performed combi-type and strength-type regimens, respectively. Muscular strength, endurance, and cross sectional area (CSA) were examined after 2, 6, and 10 weeks. After the initial 6 weeks, no significant difference was seen in the percentage changes of all variables between the groups. After the subsequent 4 weeks, however, 1RM of leg press, maximal isokinetic strength, and muscular endurance of leg extension showed significantly (p < 0.05) larger increases in the HC group than in the HS group. In addition, increases in CSA after this period also tended to be larger in the HC group than in the HS group (p = 0.08). The results suggest that a combination of high- and low-intensity regimens is effective for optimizing the strength adaptation of muscle in a periodized training program.
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, force/volume that comes with it but there are other reasonings in there as well.
