Customizing HST

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Actarus @ July 30 2005,6:15)]clustering is not effective :
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Clustering is effective if used for their purpose. Reduced peripheral fatique management, coupled with increased tension and maintenance of TUT.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Results: Measurements of blood lactate and serum hormone concentrations after the NR and WR regimens showed that the NR regimen induced strong lactate, growth hormone (GH), epinephrine (E), and norepinephrine (NE) responses
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My point.

Also from Br J Sports Med2002;36:370–374
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Methods: Twenty three healthy adults (18–29 years of age; eight women) were assigned to either a high fatigue protocol (HF: four sets of 10 repetitions with 30 seconds rest between sets) to maximise metabolic stress or a low fatigue protocol (LF: 40 repetitions with 30 seconds between each repetition) to minimise changes. Subjects lifted on average 73% of their 1 repetition maximum through the full range of knee extension with both legs, three times a week. Quadriceps isometric strength of each leg was measured at a knee joint angle of 1.57 rad (90°), and a Cybex 340 isokinetic dynamometer was used to measure the angle-torque and torque-velocity relations of the non-dominant leg.
Results: At the mid-point of the training, the HF group had 50% greater gains in isometric strength, although this was not significant (4.5 weeks: HF, 13.3 (4.4)%; LF, 8.9 (3.6)%). This rate of increase was not sustained by the HF group, and after nine weeks of training all the strength measurements
showed similar improvements for both groups (isometric strength: HF, 18.2 (3.9)%; LF, 14.5 (4.0)%).
The strength gains were limited to the longer muscle lengths despite training over the full range of movement.
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Also look at
"Recent Advances in the Understanding of Skeletal Muscle Fatigue"

and

J Appl Physiol 96: 218–225, 2004.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]With the current activity-rest intervals within and between bouts, it was found that MVCs induced both peripheral (16.2%) and central fatigue (12.6%), with only peripheral fatigue being correlated to the decrease in plantar flexor strength.
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also

From Annu. Rev. Physiol. 2004. 66:799–828
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]In contrast, an increased energy demand (reflected by lowered ATP/ADP ratio, higher AMP, and lower creatine phosphate concentrations) leads to a depression of protein synthesis (85). A recently discovered interaction between AMPK and PKB-mTOR signaling in muscle has provided a possible mechanism for this effect:
AMPK is activated by AMP and inhibited by ATP and creatine phosphate and is involved in the regulation of numerous cellular functions such as mitochondrial biogenesis and fuel metabolism (18, 86). Treatment of rats with the AMPK-activator, AICAR, resulted in a reduction in skeletal muscle protein synthesis.
This was accompanied by a decreased activation of PKB-mTOR and its downstream targets p70S6k and 4E-BP1 (87).
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ok thanks DKM ! Interessant informations. I knew the study about 4x10 versus 40x1 and I personaly believe that heavy singles with long rest is probably the best way to go but after reading all thoses studies about fatigue I had some doubts about fatigue.

"With the current activity-rest intervals within and between bouts, it was found that MVCs induced both peripheral (16.2%) and central fatigue (12.6%), with only peripheral fatigue being correlated to the decrease in plantar flexor strength."

I don't understand that ? Peripheral fatigue = PNS fatigue or fibers fatigue ? What does it tell us about fatigue as a stimulus or not ?
butbut.gif
 
Peripheral fatigue is detrimental or at least doesn't enhance strength, as seen in that and other studies. Peripheral fatigue is the changes that occur in metabolites, ion flux and others. CNS fatique is the inability to fire up the motor units or at least a diminished ability. Chronic peripheral fatigue can lead to diminished CNS activity, or at least some say.

All of this can relate to diminished loading ability or frequency.

Clustering simply does the two things I mentioned earlier, or at least the way I define clustering.

TUT or TTI and clustering, although needed TUT is diminished in heavier loads this doesn't mean it's not necessary it's just that the mechanotransduction events are more dependant on Peak Tension rather than TTI or the rate of tension. (See Bamman et al). So clustering provides for a constant in TUT but overall it is still the heavier loads that dictate.
 
I just finished a 6 week cycle using the "big four" cookie cutter routine in optimizing HST, i stopped without doing the post 5s because i have to start summer school but its worked incredibly well for me as i went from 160 (7ish percent fat) to 175 lb (at 8 percent bodyfat) over the 6 weeks and gained 2 lbs of fat (i also used creatine for the first time and im assuming a portion of my weight gain is because of cell voluminization).

I used clustering to keep my volume at 20 reps per exercise during 10s and at 10 reps per exercise for the 5s and i also worked out 6 days a week and started metabolic work (15 rep burn sets) during the 5s along with running after my workouts. To optimize it further i added stretch point exercises for calves and deltoids (donkey calf raises and lateral raises). I used clustering for the stretch point exercises to reach desired rep totals. The volume of combining working out almost everyday and using clustering really killed me during the 5s...SD is heavenly.

Id like to optimize my next cycle further by including loaded stretches, but i really dont understand what im required to do to increase the strain on the desired muscle groups. The guide detailed regular stretches and PNR but i thought this was to increase general connective tissue flexibility. While it detailed weighted stretches im confused as to how much weight to use and what to actually do as the guide is a little obstruse with this regard. While i got a good amount of DOMS by combining the stretch for abs (using about 35 lb weights) and doing nelson situps im still dont know how to deal with other muscle groups. I would appreciate any educated responses to my question.
 
With regards to the stretch reflex, there's roughly an inversely proportional relationship between amount of weight needed and amount of time needed. If you're using the same load as your training load (recommended), then you should sense the reflex kicking in about 15-30 seconds when you're using 10RM+ loads. Calves, which are mostly slow-twitch, are a notable exception.

Really, this is more of a feel technique; how long you want to stretch is really up to you. Practically, anybody doing LS 3x-a-week or more won't want to hold too long for any given session. It's too painful, and overdoing extending the time will cause a further detraining effect of the reflex. The latter has applications toward flexibility training, but for our purposes, it's not desirable.

cheers,
Jules
 
Hi I want to show you my version of 912 hst.
It is a tweak of the original, but i think it is very effectiv.
Please do not mind my bad english, because i am an uneducated german.
Modifications:
1. At least one drop set for every muscle group
Reasons:
- lactic acid generation seems to burn additionel calories (s. Poliquin`s last t-nation articel and meltdown training by don allesi)
-lacid acid seems to repair tendons.....(s. on Hsnhst
:D )
- vicious said so in the thread I told you about the existens of 912 Hst....
You should not do them every day!
2. Do HIIT while you do 912 hst
a hiit unit every second day will burn additional calories  
i recommend
5min warmup
4 200meter sprints (start every 60 sek)
400meter slowly walking
4 200meter sprints (start every 60 sek)
walk home
hot shower
These sprints will also increase your performance in the squat ( based on a field study of a  german Pler) and your  genaral sport performance
3. On hiit off days do light cardio
It will also burn additional calories
4. Do Rekom after your Cluster training
15 min  containing of light cardio and dyniamic streching is a good way of active recovery after training
5. Do additional exercises
You need to work every bodypart or you will lose muscle in that bodypart, so add exercises for those bodyparts 10reps (clustered) will be enougth
Example:
Your bulk up routine looked like this:
Bench
Row
Hack squat
lateral Raise
than Add these exercises:
military press
leg Curl
Hyperextension
Curls
Narrow grip Benchpress/ Pushdowns
calf raise
situps
schrugs
 
7. You can  add negativ exercises and loaded streching
example:
Negative chins and negativ dips or do loaded streches just to produce more damage, which leads to more calorie burning
but they are not necessary
8. Stop immiditly if you feel in danger of injury!
Just make a rest day if you feel any pain, if it does not stop than stop your cycle, go into sd! 912 hst can be very dangerous!
9. drink a lot of cold water (this will burn add cal)
10.Torture yourself
Go into a big cal deficid for the 12 days
11. take 1000mg vitamin c a day
this will keep you resistent against illnesses
12. sleep 8 until 10 houers a day
I think this is necessary to recover your cns
greetings from germany
m@x
 
Hey guys!
Lots of great reading here, love it, just love it!!
The questioin I would like to get to grips with, what would the ideal volume be for a; genetically average dude, no AAS, only using compund exercises with the maximum amount of frequency and or, 2x a day training overy other day? (if youre wondering, yes this genteically average dude probably is me
tounge.gif
)
Thanks for the attention!
 
wow Jules! obviously there has been a lot of info since we last talked. I think I will leave all the overtweaking to others and then brain drain from the sight occaisionaly to see what come up since the last read. I still ,by the way, promote hst as the most effective program I have ever done while being natural. My only problem with continually trying to find ways to increase the load and volume and frequency is that after a while you end up doin something like arnold or the old 70's type routines. Never worked for me. There is obviously some 'crossover point' at wich diminishing returns are met. I beleive you touched on it in one of the earlier posts in this thread. (i GOT A HEADHACHE AND SKIPPED TO THE END). We will have to do some catching up one day Jules.

Woody(a.k.a. morded)
 
Max, Zyko, and anyone concerned with the 912 posts...

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]5. Do Rekom after your Cluster training
15 min containing of light cardio and dyniamic streching is a good way of active recovery after training
Click to expand...

How is light cardio good "recovery?"

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Your bulk up routine looked like this:

Bench
Row
Hack squat
lateral Raise
Click to expand...

Is that referring to the 8 weeks (15s through negs) as a standard bulking cycle... and then you immediately dive into the 12 days of cluster training adding these exercises..

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]military press
leg Curl
Hyperextension
Curls
Narrow grip Benchpress/ Pushdowns
calf raise
situps
schrugs
Click to expand...

Where you follow "912 principals" and do a heavy cut for the week and a half. The proposed effect of this would be to get rid of that fat gain that you had in the prior two months while bulking. I'm skeptical of how much of your lost weight during the 12 days will be fat. If you lost 4-5 lbs in that timeframe then some would have to be muscle??

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]9. Take lecithin it will help your cns recovery and drink a lot of cold water (this will burn add cal)
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lecithin?

That's enough questions for now. For some reason I missed the old updates on this thread.

-Colby
 
wow... theres mucho to read here!! :P:P

but curiously, here's my HST.. which is probably to the very basic of it.. 3x/week M-W-F all compound movement, except for bi and tri (2 iso)

I read here that a muscle is fully regenerated after 48h.. but triaining 6x/week isnt gonna lead a bit to overtraning?
if not.. i guess that this is "Optimizing" to get better results "faster"?? (summation effect??!)
and is this 6x/week includes a full body each workout?

thx!!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (vicious @ Jan. 19 2005,12:17)]Having set up your routine, then you look at what would be the most frequent and feasible schedule. In order of preference . . .

1) Every other day training at about the same time. (Least effective)

2) Every other day training with alternating AM/PM scheduling. You'll get a summation effect.

Note: Most trainees will want to achieve at this level regardless of their exercise selection. Therefore, if you have too many exercises to prevent you from training often enough for the summation effect, you'll want to back track the exercises until you can achieve at least this level. That is the big exception for workout planning.

3) 5-6x-a-week, every day training. You may get an enhanced summation effect as well as increased loading.
4) 3x-a-week, two-a-day training. Same as 3) plus better management of CNS and metabolic resources.
5) 10-12x-a-week training.

cheers,
Jules
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Thanks for taking the time to present all this info. Am I to understand from this that if I can structure my schedule to fit in #'s 3, 4, or 5, they are superior to performing #'s 1 or 2 (as listed by Jules?)

Also, does this mean that mean that #'s 3, 4, or 5 are preferable even if I have to limit myself to 4-6 mostly compound exercises to cover my full body rather than the 10-12 exercises I could handle doing HST only 3X per week? I have enough training experience to be fairly certain that at this higher frequency my body would only tolerate a very limited number of exercises and only a few total sets per workout.

Thanks for all the input and insights I've already discovered on this forum.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]How is light cardio good "recovery?"

Quote
Your bulk up routine looked like this:

Bench
Row
Hack squat
lateral Raise


Is that referring to the 8 weeks (15s through negs) as a standard bulking cycle... and then you immediately dive into the 12 days of cluster training adding these exercises..

Quote
military press
leg Curl
Hyperextension
Curls
Narrow grip Benchpress/ Pushdowns
calf raise
situps
schrugs


Where you follow "912 principals" and do a heavy cut for the week and a half. The proposed effect of this would be to get rid of that fat gain that you had in the prior two months while bulking. I'm skeptical of how much of your lost weight during the 12 days will be fat. If you lost 4-5 lbs in that timeframe then some would have to be muscle??

Quote
9. Take lecithin it will help your cns recovery and drink a lot of cold water (this will burn add cal)


lecithin?

That's enough questions for now. For some reason I missed the old updates on this thread.

-Colby
Click to expand...

Light cardio is recovery, because metabolic waste products are carryed away throught the increased blood flow!
Why do you think soccer players have to run slow laps around the field after a game!

Befor you do the cutting you have to do 9 days SD , I expirimented with the direct change from bulking to cutting, but the results are much better with this approch 9days sd 12days cutting...

The trick is that you do not lose muscle because of the short time frame! (the sd turns you into a beginner again = build muscle and loose fat at the same time if you eat normal and loosing a lot of fat if you go into a huge deficid.....

forget about lecithin... I worked but 1-2 hours of sleep a day make this supplement unnecesary....

any questions left
 
I just don't understand how you can lose that much fat and not lose muscle. The only way for me to truely understand is to experiment with 912 myself.
 
had anybody experimented with the towels and the grip width stuff? im about to start a new cycle and was wondering if anybody had any insight to offer
 
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