Diet optimization guide

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by il_dottore, Mar 29, 2008.

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  1. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Don't worry X, apparently we are all either basically the same as drug users or we are genetic abnormalities on this forum.

    As quad pointed out, many of us have lost weight both with and without carbs. I've done both and to be honest, I'm happier when I'm not low carbing it. Intermittent Fasting so far has been the easiest and most dramatic diet I've done and I used carbs while doing it.

    And apparently there are only two types of people in the world - fat people and bodybuilders. Nevermind that people went for thousands of years eating carbs without growing fat. Yeah, nevermind that.

    Anyway, X, you've got my respect. It takes willpower and time to do what you did. The people who can't do it, who can't muster the willpower to actually do something like this, these are the ones who make excuses, such as accusing people like you of only succeeding due to using stuff, or saying that they failed because of such and such in their diet, whatever. Ignore these people. They just want to cut you down in order to make themselves feel better because ultimately they are insecure in themselves.
     
  2. Martin Levac

    Martin Levac New Member

    <div>
    (XFatMan @ Apr. 04 2008,15:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You wrote that you take Metformin</div>
    No, I never wrote that.
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">... other supplements such as chromium</div>
    I took chromium for exactly three weeks. My experience is that it is absolutely useless, so I stopped taking it quite some time ago.

    I have come all the way from slightly over 42% body fat to currently 14.4% body fat with my simple diet in 22 months. During this time, I have used chromium during exactly three weeks, and guaraná powder during four weeks. The rest, which accounts for approximately 20 months, was determination on the verge of obsession caused by the fanatical wish to become healthy. I don’t need any supplement. And frankly speaking, I don’t need any people who try to take away my merit to put science in its place, either. I wouldn't hesitate to bet anything I own that I can get below 10% body fat with my way of dieting. And I can do it at least as fast as other people with their fancy and scientifically backed up diets. [/rant]</div>
    My apology. I was under the impression that you took Metformin. I was mistaken.
     
  3. Martin Levac

    Martin Levac New Member

    <div>
    (Totentanz @ Apr. 04 2008,21:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">...
    Nevermind that people went for thousands of years eating carbs without growing fat. Yeah, nevermind that.
    ...</div>
    We have eaten carbs for millions of years but only recently have we begun eating highly refined carbs (read: full of sugars and starches but empty of nutrients such as protein, vitamins and minerals). Our consumption of refined carbs has increased dramatically over the last one hundred years. Our consumption of fat has decreased over the last 30 years. Incidentally, that's when we began growing fatter. See obesity epidemic.

    Carbohydrates is not the preferred food for humans. Fatty meat is. Compare our digestive system to that of a herbivore. See if we fit the definition of a herbivore. Then do the same comparison but this time with a carnivore.
     
  4. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Our consumption of fat has decreased over the last 30 years. Incidentally, that's when we began growing fatter. See obesity epidemic.</div>
    Dr. Scott Connelly did research from burn unit patient recovery to nutrition to obesity and discovered the obesity epidemic raised exponentially right around 1980. This was attributed at the time to the sudden use of high fructose corn syrup in everything from sodas to ketchup. Remember the sugar wars? But for some reason &quot;they&quot; (I don't know who, exactly all) are saying it's not exactly the syrup, but overeating that is mostly the culprit.
    You remember Dr. Connelly? He invented Met-Rx.
     
  5. il_dottore

    il_dottore New Member

    <div>
    (Totentanz @ Apr. 04 2008,09:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The only problem with that theory is that it fails to explain the millions of people who are not fat and do not exercise.  However, calories in vs calories out successfully explains all of it.</div>
    You're right but I think both contributes to over weight/obesity
     
  6. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    <div>
    (Martin Levac @ Apr. 05 2008,17:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Our consumption of fat has decreased over the last 30 years. Incidentally, that's when we began growing fatter. See obesity epidemic.</div>
    Why not be perfectly clear with what you are claiming.

    Percentage fat has decreased over the past few decades.

    Actual amounts of fat have not decreased, if anything they have slightly increased.
     
  7. Martin Levac

    Martin Levac New Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Apr. 05 2008,03:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Our consumption of fat has decreased over the last 30 years. Incidentally, that's when we began growing fatter. See obesity epidemic.</div>
    Dr. Scott Connelly did research from burn unit patient recovery to nutrition to obesity and discovered the obesity epidemic raised exponentially right around 1980. This was attributed at the time to the sudden use of high fructose corn syrup in everything from sodas to ketchup. Remember the sugar wars? But for some reason &quot;they&quot; (I don't know who, exactly all) are saying it's not exactly the syrup, but overeating that is mostly the culprit.
    You remember Dr. Connelly? He invented Met-Rx.</div>
    At the time we cut back on fat and cholesterol, we did so because it was thought that saturated fat and cholesterol was bad for us. That was around the 70'.

    While we cut back on fat, we had to replace it with something. We couldn't just eat less. So we began eating more refined carbs. We see it everywhere in processed food. Where fat was used as a filler or as a thickener, there is now sugar, starch or both. There's low fat processed food everywhere. Compare the low fat product with the normal product (mayo for instance) and see how we trade fat calories for carbo calories.

    Fat is an essential nutrient just like protein, vitamins and minerals. If nutrients are missing or there's not enough, we will eat more to try to get enough. That's what happens when we cut fat and replace it with carbs. In part, that's the reason we overeat. The other reason we overeat is the carb/insulin/adipose tissue mechanism.

    There is this hypothesis that says if we cut fat we'll grow lean. We believe that because fat contains more calories per weight, cutting it out will allow us to eat fewer calories. It's an extension of the Positive Caloric Balance hypothesis. The problem here is that nutrient poor food don't satiate us as much and so we must eat more of it to get our fill. As we eat more of it, we also eat more calories. The very thing we were trying to cut by cutting fat out of our diet.

    As we eat nutrient rich foods, we are sated with much less food so we eat less food. Fatty meat, cheese, cream, lard, suet, ghee are all rich foods that fill us quickly and don't actually make us fat because they contain no carbs.
     
  8. XFatMan

    XFatMan New Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Intermittent Fasting so far has been the easiest and most dramatic diet I've done and I used carbs while doing it.</div>
    Sounds interesting. Could you describe how that works in a couple of sentences?
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Carbohydrates is not the preferred food for humans.</div>
    Nutritionists study this subject for years at universities. Talk to these people and you'll see that you are plain wrong.
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Compare our digestive system to that of a herbivore. See if we fit the definition of a herbivore. Then do the same comparison but this time with a carnivore.</div>
    And don't forget to look up omnivore in a dictionary. Then compare again. You will be surprised.
     
  9. Martin Levac

    Martin Levac New Member

    <div>
    (XFatMan @ Apr. 05 2008,04:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">...
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Carbohydrates is not the preferred food for humans.</div>
    Nutritionists study this subject for years at universities. Talk to these people and you'll see that you are plain wrong.
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Compare our digestive system to that of a herbivore. See if we fit the definition of a herbivore. Then do the same comparison but this time with a carnivore.</div>
    And don't forget to look up omnivore in a dictionary. Then compare again. You will be surprised.</div>
    Don't presume to know what a nutritionist learns in school and then presume to teach me this pseudo-knowledge. Unless you are a nutritionist yourself?

    You talk to nutritionists. Ask them what diet they advise for diabetes type 2 or even type 1. Or obesity. Or heart disease. Or arthritis. Or epilepsy. Or acid reflux. Or diverticulitis. Or glaucoma/cataract. Or depression. Or anorexia. Or acne. Or infertility. Or cancer. Or for a perfectly healthy human.


    I did not say we were not omnivore. We can still eat carbs. But our digestive tract is not adapted to eat carbs to any great extent. Unlike that of a cow or a gorilla. Our digestive system is more suited to meat especially fatty meat such as fat, marrow and brain. We can eat carbs but the cost is great.

    For instance, we don't have the enzymatic capacity to digest cellulose. Incidentally, it is for this reason that we advise to eat it: We can't digest it. It's fiber and supposedly, fiber is good for us. There's one problem with that: It comes with digestible carbs (starch and sugar) and so even if fiber is good for us, it comes with what is bad for us. It's just a little stupid to eat both the poison and the antidote in the same bite, don't you think?
     
  10. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (XFatMan @ Apr. 05 2008,04:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Intermittent Fasting so far has been the easiest and most dramatic diet I've done and I used carbs while doing it.</div>
    Sounds interesting. Could you describe how that works in a couple of sentences?</div>[/quote][/quote]
    Skip breakfast. Then try to eat all of your meals in an eight-hour window around the time of your workout.

    On workout days, you eat 25% (or so) over maintenance. On non-workout days, you eat 25% -- 50% under maintenance.

    There's a bit more, but you only gave me &quot;a couple of sentences&quot;... [​IMG]
     
  11. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    That's pretty much it, TR, except for putting the w.o. at the end of the fast - which I did not do yesterday and had a great one! See my log. Amazing.
    Hmmm, logic, huh? <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But our digestive tract is not adapted to eat carbs to any great extent. Unlike that of a cow or a gorilla.</div> Who are built to eat exclusively carbs, have no canines.
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">fiber is good for us. There's one problem with that: It comes with digestible carbs (starch and sugar)</div>...that we can't digest, but the body uses for fuel...
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It's just a little stupid to eat both the poison and the antidote in the same bite,</div> but we've added more antidote to the 'poison', as BB'ers, because it takes out fat with it, aka high fiber breads and use of whole grains. Love my oatmeeel!
     
  12. Avi1985

    Avi1985 New Member

    <div>
    (TunnelRat @ Apr. 05 2008,08:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (XFatMan @ Apr. 05 2008,04:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Intermittent Fasting so far has been the easiest and most dramatic diet I've done and I used carbs while doing it.</div>
    Sounds interesting. Could you describe how that works in a couple of sentences?</div>[/quote][/quote]
    Skip breakfast. Then try to eat all of your meals in an eight-hour window around the time of your workout.

    On workout days, you eat 25% (or so) over maintenance. On non-workout days, you eat 25% -- 50% under maintenance.

    There's a bit more, but you only gave me &quot;a couple of sentences&quot;...  [​IMG]</div>
    But i allow you to give more details
     
  13. Martin Levac

    Martin Levac New Member

    Fiber is no use to us. We can't digest it so we can't use the energy that it contains. It goes right through untouched. The fiber from wheat, bran, consists of the husk of the grain. As a result of our inability to digest it (pretty much no animal can digest it either) it can be eaten by most and then excreted intact elsewhere to increase the grain's chance of survival. After all, it too wants to live. This same mechanism is used by many other seeds as a way to multiply.
     
  14. XFatMan

    XFatMan New Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There's a bit more, but you only gave me &quot;a couple of sentences&quot;... </div>
    I'm a lazy reader ... If all online articles were that succinct ... [​IMG]
     
  15. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (Avi1985 @ Apr. 05 2008,09:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (TunnelRat @ Apr. 05 2008,08:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
    Skip breakfast. Then try to eat all of your meals in an eight-hour window around the time of your workout.

    On workout days, you eat 25% (or so) over maintenance. On non-workout days, you eat 25% -- 50% under maintenance.

    There's a bit more, but you only gave me &quot;a couple of sentences&quot;... [​IMG]</div>
    But i allow you to give more details</div>
    One of my full diet consultations will run you about $1,000 (and I'll pretty much say the same thing, only using fancier language... [​IMG] ).
     
  16. Avi1985

    Avi1985 New Member

    No one is ready to tell what is if?
     
  17. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (Avi1985 @ Apr. 05 2008,13:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">No one is ready to tell what is if?</div>
    Look here for the author of IF.

    An example of how an IF recomp may be structured:

    Fasting period lasts 16 hrs. This means you initiate your first meal 16 hrs before eating the last meal on the night before (which is easily done by skipping breakfast and lunch). Thus, ideally all eating is done within an 8 +-1 hour timeframe. Most do well with 3 meals, but some may even prefer 2 or 4. In order to have a steady supply of amino acids in your blood during the fast, I suggest the last meal consists of whole foods and some slow digesting protein (cottage cheese for example).

    non-WO days: only lean protein and veggies (max 100 g carbs). Stay in the 1200-1500 kcal range and include 60-90 min of low intensity cardio. Kcal intake on these days is set to approximately 50% maintenance for most males.

    WO-days: have a moderate sized meal of 50-60/50-60 carb/pro (minimum fat) pre-WO (approx 450-550 kcal). PWO-meal is ideally a high carb, moderate protein and low fat refeed. Kcal target for this day should be around maintenance+25% with the absolute majority of kcals eaten PWO. General guidelines for this day is (at least) 1 g protein/bw and 2 g carbs/ bw, and then you may fill out with whatever macronutrient you want to a certain degree. Ideally, emphasis should be put on carbs while fat intake is kept low; these conditions are the most favourable in order to prevent fat storage and optimize glycogen storage.

    For the recomp protocol to work effectively, you need to balance the surplus days with the deficit days. This means that an EOD workout routine is ideal for those wishing progressive lean gains accompanied by fat loss. 2-3x week WO routines delivers faster results for people with bodyfat loss as a main priority.
     
  18. XFatMan

    XFatMan New Member

    Doesn't sound bad at all. Perhaps I'll try it during my next vacation. I'd like to know from those who have already tried this: how did you feel during the cycle?
     
  19. bluejacket

    bluejacket New Member

  20. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Way too early for an opinion, but here in day 3 I've had some hunger in the mornings, like knowing I missed breakfast...sipping chai tea to stave off the worst...and then there's sort of a 'second wind' effect where near the end of the fast I could take food or leave it .
    Then there's yesterday's fasted workout that surprised the tar outta me. And finally, the 8 hour 'window of eating' has been comfortable, using my normal patterns of maintenance, leaving me with a deficit total  for the day.
    The thought occurs to me that NOT eating is easier than teasing myself with half-meals and nibbling bits and pieces.
    The day has it's rewards.  [​IMG]
     
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