HST, Arthur Jones, 20 Rep Squats Oh My!

<div>
(quadancer @ Jan. 14 2008,19:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yes. This is HST, a science-based site, even though our majority are only gym rats, we're well-informed rats. Whenever a disagreement should be proven, either we bow out gracefully or ante up. The point isn't about 'winning' or ego or anything. It's about Truth and not misleading any new folks with outdated, errant, or useless information.
Too many of us have come here with heads full of brologic and mythology only to happily remain after being reprogrammed! The result is usually growth.</div>
Poetic. That should be your new signature, Quadancer.
 
Dan is a labcoat kind of guy... he is always interested in studies! First person to 4,000 posts Dan... give it another day or so!
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<div>
(scientific muscle @ Jan. 14 2008,19:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Its time for my leg workout...I'll be back in hour or so, hopefully jacked up on a surge of anabolic hormones and update my log. See ya soon!</div>
Hahaha, Sci you are having too much fun with this!
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Ok then......................


Pritzlaff, CJ. Impact of acute excercise intensity on pulsating GH release in men.
J applied phisiology 1999 87:498

Chwalbinska- montera, J. Threshold increase in pulsating GH in relation to plasma catecholamine and blood lactate during progressive excercise.....
Eur Journ applied  phisiology.

Luger, A Hormonal response to the stress of excercise.
Adv Exp med biol  1988 145:273

Felsing NE. etc..  Effects of low and high intensity excercise on circulating GH in men.Jou clin endocrinology metab 1992 75:157

Viru, A. Hormonal ensemble in excercise, hormones in muscular activity. Vol 1  1985CRC Press

Rennie, MJ, johnon RH. Alteration of metabolic and hormonal response by physical training.

These studies advance the idea that sufficient training unleashes Gh testosterone relative tovarious factors namely load and length of training.

There as many studies which point out that excessie volume inhibits hormonal response.

Here lies the crux of my thinking on the training aspect of bodybuilding.

You must sufficiently stimulate the muscle AND the terrain in order to put muscle repair into action to its fullest potential. Stimulus then adaptation.

You must NOT go beyond what is needed. In doing so you risk setting off alarm bells which forewarn the entirety of the body system that survival may be threatened. Doing so negates the adaptation response andtraditional signs of overtraining set in, ultimatelty not allowing you to train or train effectively because the body is protecting itself from percieved peril.

The bottom line is that you must train enough to stimulate growth response while flying under the radar of a negative response. This means in terms of training, not too much load and volume. The greater the stimulus the less volume you can use. negative reps cannot be used effectively in a 5x5 routine for very long because the stimulus is too great and overtraining quickly sets in. Failure sets, even one set to failure ala nautilus also leads to overtraining quickly because failure ets setoff CNS alarm bells, in a matter of a month or two the trainee finds a plateau and later a strong disintrest in training, this is a biological defense mechanism aimed at survival.
The same underlying energy is used both for the immune system and for musclular repair. if your overtraining you are using too much of this energy for repair and not enough is left for the immune system. How many of us have gotten sick after a few weeks in a cycle? your body does not like this at all! And it WILL shut you down.

Frequency too falls under the same catagory, too frequent of a training schedule often leads to illness as well and for the same reasons, without days awayfrom training the body desnt have time or energy for system maintenance leading to illness.

Okay this way too much rambling.

Like Arthur Jones said

Brief

infrequent

intense.

Intense enough to relaese the terrains growth respone yet not enough to send it into meltdown.

Jones had it almost nailed but placed too much value on stimulation via failure sets, not seeing the correltion between frequent failure sets and overtraining.

HST has it all.

Legs first, setting up the terrain for optimal growth, and then a minimal amount of sets to stimulte the growth response in individual muscles. With frequency allowing for system maintenance and properly running immune system.

My hands are tired......

IMO

RR
 
<div>
(redrooster @ Jan. 14 2008,16:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Heavy squating or deadlifting promotes both test and growth hormones systemically. As stated earlier Casey Viators arms grew simply from heavy squating.</div>
Anyway, Casey's arms growing from squats... simply isn't true. That's not what happened.
Muscles don't grow unless you work them. That's just how they work. They don't just spontaneously grow for no reason, not without some kind of tension being applied at some point.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Additionally physical therapy research has demonstrated that a person with an injured leg need not experience atrophy in the injured leg. If the person does leg excercises such a one legged leg press with their good leg, to a degree that growth hormones are released, the injured leg will grow in some proportion to the excercised one.</div>

Link? I'd like to read that.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I know Ill be asked to show my homework here so Ill try to find the studies.</div>

Okay, just make sure you actually read the studies you post to be sure they support what you are saying.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But this is the underlying principle of Jones' work and the 20 rep squat routine. The growth mechanism is started by heavy leg and back work. The largest muscle stimulate the growth process most easily and the rest of the body reaps the benefits as well. HST starts with legs first as well, its not an accident.</div>

Again, flawed understanding of HST. HST does not dictate exercise order nor exercise selection at all. Yes, compounds are encouraged but you don't even have to do that. You could make an entire HST routine based on isolations if you really wanted, as long as you used mechanical load, progressive load, chronic stimuli and took an SD once in a while.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Both Jones and Vice Gironda , when commenting on an arms routine, said the best way to maximaize arm size is to specialize on the arms alone, but to squat first.</div>

That doesn't really mean much. They said a lot of stuff that was correct but a lot of stuff that was wrong too. In this instance, they are wrong.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Who here, after a heavy leg workout, has not at one time or another FELT a surge of testosterone after youve got your wind back? For me it happens every time on the way home. This study says this isnt the case. Who you gunna believe?</div>

The study. You do realize that how you feel is meaningless, right? Go get a blood test done, have them check your test levels. Go do a heavy leg workout and have them tested again. There isn't going to be a surge in systemic testosterone levels. If anything, they will be slightly lower.
 
Aparrently not.


Heres one in a nut shell

P. VanHelder1, 2, K. Casey1, 2 and M. W. Radomski1, 2

(1)  Department of Physiology, and the School of Physical and Health Education, University of Toronto, Canada
(2)  Defence and Civil Institute of Environmental Medicine, Downsview, P. O. Box 2000, M3M 3B9, Ontario, Canada

Accepted: 22 May 1987  

Summary  Five normal men performed seven sets of seven squats at a load equal to 80% of their seven repetition maximum. Plasma growth hormone (GH) and lactate levels increased during and after the completion of the exercise. A significant (r=0.93, P&lt;0.001) linear correlation was found between GH changes and the corresponding oxygen Demand/Availability (D/A) ratio expressed by  (where f=[lactate at time x]/[lactate at time 0]). A retrospective examination of previously published data from our laboratory and others also demonstrated the existence of a significant correlation between changes in plasma GH levels and the D/A ratios over a wide variety of exercise; aerobic and anaerobic, continuous and intermittent, weight lifting and cycling, in both fit and unfit subjects under normoxic and hypoxic conditions. It is suggested that the balance between oxygen demand and availability may be an important regulator of GH secretion during exercise.


What this snipet is suggesting is what the breathingsquat guys knew.
Squats and heavy breathing = Big hormonal response.

I have a a theory about the value of deep breathing during your workout. Gironda was an advocate of it too, but i think Ive stirred the pot too much already we'll leave that for another day....

RR
 
I am a noob. So be gentle with me. These are the HST principles:

Load: Muscle must be loaded to stimulate a growth response

Progressive load: Muscle must be loaded with progressively heavier load to further stimulate a growth response

Frequency: Muscle must be loaded frequently to maintain a chronic growth environment

Strategic Deconditioning: Muscle becomes resistant to the load, decondition it to make it sensitive to the load again


Some clarification is needed to understand the concepts outlined above. For instance, to load a muscle, all one needs is to stretch it. More specifically, all one needs is to stretch the muscle cell. In fact, the muscle doesn't even need to be attached to the body for it to be stimulated and for a growth response to occur. But obviously, we're not going to cut out our muscles just so we can stimulate a growth response and then re-attach them to allow the rest of our body to feed this growth response for our muscles to actually grow.

So we lift the bar. We lift it frequently. We lift a heavier bar each workout. We take a break once we've reached the limit of our ability. Then we start over with a slightly heavier starting weight. And so forth.


The model HST routine on the front page.

HST is not a workout. It's not a routine. It's not a set of exercises. Instead, it's a set of principles to be applied to a workout, to a routine, to a set of exercises. How you apply them is your business. In other words, you can choose any exercise you can think of and then some. Do any rep scheme you want. Breathe or not (but I strongly recommend that you do breathe because air is so much better than vacuum). Do squats on a machine or with a barbell. Do curls or some other compound exercise that requires the biceps. As long as you apply the HST principles correctly, you are training with HST.

Any program that produces growth has one or more of the principles of HST. Few have all of them applied optimally or even correctly. Most have some of the principles applied just OK. But here's the good part of HST, you can take any program and apply HST principles to it.



About fatigue and momentary muscle failure.

Fatigue is a limiting factor. So is momentary muscle failure. We only need look at what it is to see that it is a limiting factor. Once we can avoid it, we can progress much faster than otherwise. We lift much heavier than otherwise. We can lift much more frequently than otherwise. Dan's Max-Stim is one such method that explicitly tries to avoid fatigue and MMF.

HST principles do NOT advocate going to failure at all. You infer this from your current set of knowledge which is, by the way, erroneous. I know exactly where this inference comes from. You think that RM means &quot;lift bar until you can't lift it anymore and that must be the way to lift the bar every time you lift the specific RM for this exercise.&quot; In HST, RM represents a load, not a number of reps. So for instance, 15RM represents 60kg on the squat. 10RM represents 75kg, 5RM 90kg. As you can see, the RM phases are progressing toward heavier and heavier loads to obey the principle of progressive load. How you lift the bar whether it be continuously or in clusters or a la Max-Stim is inconsequential as long as you lift the bar a sufficient number of times in this workout.

RedRooster, you wrote: &quot;Jones correctly pointed out that failure sent a powerful signal to the CNS, which in turn switched on the growth machine.&quot;

The CNS has no role in muscle growth. Breathing has no role in muscle growth. Cardio-vascular health has no role in muscle growth. CNS alarm bells is a strange concept and I can safely say that it has no role in muscle growth. Progressive overload, maximal overload, optimal overload, these are terms and concepts that don't fit well with HST principles. They confuse more than they help. I don't know what you mean by them.



Growth and shrinkage.

I haven't read if you mentioned that you eat enough to grow or even if that is your goal at this time. Suffice to say that it would be wise to address this problem immediately so that you understand the fundamental principle of growth and shrinkage and prevent future confusion:

Eat more to grow
Eat less to shrink
 
<div>
(redrooster @ Jan. 14 2008,20:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Aparrently not.


Heres one in a nut shell

P. VanHelder1, 2, K. Casey1, 2 and M. W. Radomski1, 2

(1)  Department of Physiology, and the School of Physical and Health Education, University of Toronto, Canada
(2)  Defence and Civil Institute of Environmental Medicine, Downsview, P. O. Box 2000, M3M 3B9, Ontario, Canada

Accepted: 22 May 1987  

Summary  Five normal men performed seven sets of seven squats at a load equal to 80% of their seven repetition maximum. Plasma growth hormone (GH) and lactate levels increased during and after the completion of the exercise. A significant (r=0.93, P&lt;0.001) linear correlation was found between GH changes and the corresponding oxygen Demand/Availability (D/A) ratio expressed by  (where f=[lactate at time x]/[lactate at time 0]). A retrospective examination of previously published data from our laboratory and others also demonstrated the existence of a significant correlation between changes in plasma GH levels and the D/A ratios over a wide variety of exercise; aerobic and anaerobic, continuous and intermittent, weight lifting and cycling, in both fit and unfit subjects under normoxic and hypoxic conditions. It is suggested that the balance between oxygen demand and availability may be an important regulator of GH secretion during exercise.


What this snipet is suggesting is what the breathingsquat guys knew.
Squats and heavy breathing = Big hormonal response.

I have a a theory about the value of deep breathing during your workout. Gironda was an advocate of it too, but i think Ive stirred the pot too much already we'll leave that for another day....

RR</div>
They did not once mention muscular hypertrophy anywhere in that abstract. Do you have anything that links RE stimulated hormonal response with elevated hypertrophy?
 
<div>
(redrooster @ Jan. 14 2008,20:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Pritzlaff, CJ. Impact of acute excercise intensity on pulsating GH release in men.
J applied phisiology 1999 87:498

Chwalbinska- montera, J. Threshold increase in pulsating GH in relation to plasma catecholamine and blood lactate during progressive excercise.....
Eur Journ applied  phisiology.

Luger, A Hormonal response to the stress of excercise.
Adv Exp med biol  1988 145:273

Felsing NE. etc..  Effects of low and high intensity excercise on circulating GH in men.Jou clin endocrinology metab 1992 75:157

Viru, A. Hormonal ensemble in excercise, hormones in muscular activity. Vol 1  1985CRC Press

Rennie, MJ, johnon RH. Alteration of metabolic and hormonal response by physical training.</div>
I am having trouble finding these, can you provide links or something? At least to the abstracts?
 
[/quote]
<div>
(redrooster @ Jan. 14 2008,16:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Heavy squating or deadlifting promotes both test and growth hormones systemically. As stated earlier Casey Viators arms grew simply from heavy squating.</div>
Anyway, Casey's arms growing from squats... simply isn't true.  That's not what happened.
Muscles don't grow unless you work them.  That's just how they work.  They don't just spontaneously grow for no reason, not without some kind of tension being applied at some point.

OF COURSE ITS TRUE,HE HAS NO REASON TO LIE ABOUT AN ANECDOTE. AND LIKE I SAID THIS WAS IN RESPONSE TO SERIOUS SQUATING, NOT KNEE EXTENSIONS.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Additionally physical therapy research has demonstrated that a person with an injured leg need not experience atrophy in the injured leg. If the person does leg excercises such a one legged leg press with their good leg, to a degree that growth hormones are released, the injured leg will grow in some proportion to the excercised one.</div>

Link?  I'd like to read that.

ILL TRY TO FIND THE SOURCE ON THIS ONE, BUT ITS BEEN AWHILE.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I know Ill be asked to show my homework here so Ill try to find the studies.</div>

Okay, just make sure you actually read the studies you post to be sure they support what you are saying.

ITS ALSO IMPORTANT THAT THE CONTEXT OF THE STUDY IS ALSO CLEALRY UNDERSTODD AS WELL AS ITS LIMITATIONS. THE STUDY POSTED EARLIER PROVED NOTHING WORTHWHILE TO A SERIOUS BODYBUILDER WHO LIFTS HEAVY WEIGHTS WHILE SQUATING OR DEADLIFTING

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But this is the underlying principle of Jones' work and the 20 rep squat routine. The growth mechanism is started by heavy leg and back work. The largest muscle stimulate the growth process most easily and the rest of the body reaps the benefits as well. HST starts with legs first as well, its not an accident.</div>

Again, flawed understanding of HST.  HST does not dictate exercise order nor exercise selection at all.  Yes, compounds are encouraged but you don't even have to do that.  You could make an entire HST routine based on isolations if you really wanted, as long as you used mechanical load, progressive load, chronic stimuli and took an SD once in a while.

HST DOES NOT DICTATE MUCH, BUT AGAIN ITS NOT COINCIDINTAL THAT HST NAUTILUS AND  MOST BREATHING SQUAT ROUTINES START WITH HEAVY LEG WORK. THIS SETS THE TERRAIN UP FOR BETTER GAINS. THIS IS NO WAY SAYING THAT YOU HAVE TO DO IT THIS WAY, IM SIMPLY SAYING THAT IT WILL ADD BENEFIT TOA ROUTINE TO DO LEGS FIRST!

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Both Jones and Vice Gironda , when commenting on an arms routine, said the best way to maximaize arm size is to specialize on the arms alone, but to squat first.</div>

That doesn't really mean much.  They said a lot of stuff that was correct but a lot of stuff that was wrong too.  In this instance, they are wrong.

THEY WERE WRONG SOMETIMES BUT THEY WERE ALSO RIGHT ALOT. ON THIS THEY WERE RIGHT.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Who here, after a heavy leg workout, has not at one time or another FELT a surge of testosterone after youve got your wind back? For me it happens every time on the way home. This study says this isnt the case. Who you gunna believe?</div>

The study.  You do realize that how you feel is meaningless, right?  

I DONT NEED TO GO TO THE DOCTOR AND GET LAB WORK DONE TO KNOW WHEN IM SICK. I DONT NEED BLOOD WORK TO KNOW WHEN IM TOO ACIDIC, LIKE RIGHT NOW.AND I SURELY DONT NEED LAB WORK TO TELL ME WHEN MY TESTOSTERONE IS SKY HIGH.

PAYING ATTENTION TO YOUR BODY IS VERY IMPORTANT
PERHAOS YOU ARE TOO YOUNG TO REALIZE THIS BUT US OLD DOGS KNOW ITS TRUE. ITS ANYTHING BUT MEANINGLESS.
Go get a blood test done, have them check your test levels.  Go do a heavy leg workout and have them tested again.  There isn't going to be a surge in systemic testosterone levels.  If anything, they will be slightly lower.

SURGES IN GH AND TEST UNLESS YOUR DOING A 10 X 10 OR SOME SUCH THING.

I SUSPECT YOUR A &quot;TRUE BELIEVER&quot;.

WHATEVER YOUR DOING TOTENTANZ KEEP IT UP, BUT TRYTO KEEP AN OPEN MIND. HST GOT HERE BY PIONEERS WHO THOUGHT OUTSIDE THE BOX!


RR
 
Those studies you pasted are not relevant to this discussion. And do not counter the the abstract I posted in any way.

I found Luger: hormonal response...that abstract had nothing to do with hypertrophy. Also found Rennie: alteration, etc...again, this abstract looked at long-distance runners and hormone secretion, it was not at all concerned with muscular hypertrophy. Why did you even post those???
rock.gif


I agree with Dan, do your homework before you post nonsensical arguments. You are only making it worse for yourself by continuing to post without any real knowledge to back it up.
 
&quot;The CNS has no role in muscle growth. Breathing has no role in muscle growth. Cardio-vascular health has no role in muscle growth. CNS alarm bells is a strange concept and I can safely say that it has no role in muscle growth. Progressive overload, maximal overload, optimal overload, these are terms and concepts that don't fit well with HST principles. They confuse more than they help. I don't know what you mean by them.&quot;

If you do not understand them why are you refuting them with your statements?

CNS and breathing do play a part- a part. there are many parts. in order to grow you need only to follow the HST vanilla formula and eat well, thats the beauty of it. Im simplycomparing HST to ther models that have had good results bro. Namely A Jones and Breathing squats. do a google search on breathing squats but not one one Jones, theres WAY too much dogma in them there hills!

Sci said;
They did not once mention muscular hypertrophy anywhere in that abstract.  Do you have anything that links RE stimulated hormonal response with elevated hypertrophy'

Its just a snipet bro!

If you dont think a hormonal response is important to growth ask yourself why do men get bigger than women, why do steroid users get bigger than naturals, and why GH users get bigger than roid users?

Enhancing hormonal output allows the body to use more nutrients to help the body grow for one thing.

Guys this is Bodybuilding 101 stuff. i dont understand why were even discussing it.

RR


&quot;
 
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Jan. 14 2008,21:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Those studies you pasted are not relevant to this discussion.  And do not counter the the abstract I posted in any way.

I found Luger: hormonal response...that abstract had nothing to do with hypertrophy.  Also found Rennie: alteration, etc...again, this abstract looked at long-distance runners and hormone secretion, it was not at all concerned with muscular hypertrophy.  Why did you even post those???
rock.gif


I agree with Dan, do your homework before you post nonsensical arguments.  You are only making it worse for yourself by continuing to post without any real knowledge to back it up.</div>
Sci said

&quot;Those studies you pasted are not relevant to this discussion.  And do not counter the the abstract I posted in any way.

I found Luger: hormonal response...that abstract had nothing to do with hypertrophy.  Also found Rennie: alteration, etc...again, this abstract looked at long-distance runners and hormone secretion, it was not at all concerned with muscular hypertrophy.  Why did you even post those???
rock.gif


I agree with Dan, do your homework before you post nonsensical arguments.  You are only making it worse for yourself by continuing to post without any real knowledge to back it up.&quot;


You need to understandthes are all pointing at thesame thing. Intense excercise creates a strong hormonal response. A strong hormonal response makes you grow. period.

You need to learn to study outside your knowledge base too.


RR
 
We are discussing it because you are arguing that working legs and back first in a workout (and doing 20 rep squats or whatever) is critical to hypertrophy because they significantly elevate anabolic hormones systemically.  The only way I know how to do that is with a needle or a pill.

Post something to back up your argument...so far you have done nothing of the sort.
 
I have stated no such thing. i did not say it was critical in fact i made that distintion clear. It adds value to do it that way but not needed.

I am simply pointing out thatmany of the great routines from the past do this as well as brians vanilla HST.

IM NOT saying you have to do it that way.

Im saying hormonal imporvement acclerates the growth process. This best done by leg and back work as they are the biggest muscles that invoke the strongest hormonal response.

THATS ALL IM SAYIN!

Surely im not going to have to argue that more hormones are better than less am I?

Seriously. do google search on 20 rep breathing squats. there some fun article about the old school guys did andbrothr for naturals they were BIG!

Im off tobed and Im sorry if I got contentious. I truly admire the passion of the people here.

RR
 
<div>
(redrooster @ Jan. 14 2008,21:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">&quot;The CNS has no role in muscle growth. Breathing has no role in muscle growth. Cardio-vascular health has no role in muscle growth. CNS alarm bells is a strange concept and I can safely say that it has no role in muscle growth. Progressive overload, maximal overload, optimal overload, these are terms and concepts that don't fit well with HST principles. They confuse more than they help. I don't know what you mean by them.&quot;

If you do not understand them why are you refuting them with your statements?

CNS and breathing do play a part- a part. there are many parts. in order to grow you need only to follow the HST vanilla formula and eat well, thats the beauty of it. Im simplycomparing HST to ther models that have had good results bro. Namely A Jones and Breathing squats. do a google search on breathing squats but not one one Jones, theres WAY too much dogma in them there hills!

Sci said;
They did not once mention muscular hypertrophy anywhere in that abstract. Do you have anything that links RE stimulated hormonal response with elevated hypertrophy'

Its just a snipet bro!

If you dont think a hormonal response is important to growth ask yourself why do men get bigger than women, why do steroid users get bigger than naturals, and why GH users get bigger than roid users?

Enhancing hormonal output allows the body to use more nutrients to help the body grow for one thing.

Guys this is Bodybuilding 101 stuff. i dont understand why were even discussing it.

RR


&quot;</div>
HST is Hypertrophy Specific Training

These are the fundamental principles:

Load

Progressive load

Frequency

SD

There is no other principle on which to build a training program for the specific purpose of stimulating a growth response. There is only one part to muscle growth. In its simplest expression, load is the only thing that is required to stimulate a growth response. Everything else is incidental to the application of this load: We must eat food and breathe air. We must transport this food and air to the muscle. We must flush the muscle with blood. Whatever effect these incidents have on the growth response is primarily in amplitude: More air is better than less air. More food is better than less food. More protein is better than less protein.

When it comes to the CNS, there is no benefit to be had from increasing or decreasing fatigue. There is, however, a negative effect of overloading the CNS. The CNS can become so fatigued that it responds by increasing the release of cortisol in the bloodstream. I don't understand everything that happens there but the point is that we can't infer a positive effect from one condition just because we notice a negative effect from the opposite condition. We certainly can't infer any positive effect from the release of cortisol either since we know that it eats muscle for breakfast. This is another reason that I say that fatigue is a limiting factor. It can't be a beneficial factor at any time.
 
You dont know it but youve agreed with me.

HST priciples all you need.

Hormonal response makes it better.

Cortisol is what happens when you over train.

Cortisol cannot happen when you have aproper hormonal response.

This is CNS alarm bellsIm speaking of, or at least a small part of it.


RR
 
You dont know it but youve agreed with me.

HST priciples are all you need.

Hormonal response makes it better.

Cortisol is what happens when you over train.

Cortisol cannot happen when you have a proper hormonal response.

This cortisol is part of the CNS alarm bells Im speaking of.

Again, a pair of twins doing the HST workout one takes steroids, an artificial hormone and one does not, which grows bigger?

The load priciple is the same yet one is bigger.

See my point?

RR
 
&quot;Curiouser and curiouser!&quot;

&quot;I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think. Was I the same after my last set of squats? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is 'Who in the world am I?' Ah, that's the great puzzle!&quot;, said Lol.

&quot;What is the use of repeating all that stuff, if you don't explain it as you go on? It's by far the most confusing thing I ever heard!&quot;, said the Mock Turtle.

&quot;Read the directions and directly you will be directed in the right direction&quot;, said the doorknob.

================================

I totally agree that 20 rep breathing squats with your 10RM are hell on earth but I haven't read any studies that suggest they elevate testosterone levels. I have read that test levels drop off after intense resistance training.

What if I do 4 sets of 5 reps with the same 10RM load instead? Certainly, the work done is the same and the strain on the muscle tissue is the same. What is different, as I understand it, is that the glycolytic pathway is 'trained' much harder in 20-rep breathing squats; after exhausting your ATP and CP stores, ATP will need to be produced from the breakdown of glycogen into glucose through glycogenolysis and then the glucose will be broken down through glycolysis to produce ATP and, eventually, lactic acid. By allowing a few deep breaths between reps, some of the lactic acid being produced can be flushed from the working muscles, so reducing fatigue and allowing continuation of the set.

One thing I am sure of is that regularly performing 20-rep breathing squats will make you much better at performing 20-rep breathing squats (SAID principle at work again). Is it not true that 20-rep breathing squats, as recommended by AJ, point to his belief that fatigue was a major cause of muscular hypertrophy?

Casey Viator was surely training his arms to get them to grow, not just squatting? From the routines I have read about in the Colorado Experiment his arms would have been worked hard by nearly every upper-body compound exercise.

Oh, have you seen some of the Paralympic powerlifters? A few have no legs at all - they obviously can't squat yet still have very good development in all areas of their bodies that they are able to train.
 
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