HST/Wernbom Experiment

I skipped a workout, and may skip another one.... just getting recovered a bit, I plan to start up again, probably Wednesday, I have pretty much squeezed all the growth out of the 3x10 setup, going to move the loads UP, to a 4x6 setup. 1 extra set, but total volume goes down to 24 reps per exercise. I'll see how far I can stretch the 4x6 setup before I do a 10 day SD and reset the loads to the 10s again.
 
I am still recovering...slept 10 hours last night. ( I bought a king size memory foam mattress... so supportive, highly recommended for weightlifters, as we tend to be heavy and dense, requiring good bone support)
Taking tonight off too... 6 total days off... not quite a deconditioning period, but enough to get my system fully recuperated from all the lifting.
 
Sci said:
I skipped a workout, and may skip another one.... just getting recovered a bit, I plan to start up again, probably Wednesday, I have pretty much squeezed all the growth out of the 3x10 setup, going to move the loads UP, to a 4x6 setup. 1 extra set, but total volume goes down to 24 reps per exercise. I'll see how far I can stretch the 4x6 setup before I do a 10 day SD and reset the loads to the 10s again.
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Too much volume per bout ;)
 
HST_Rihad said:
If you lie in bed once woken unusually early, you may still fall asleep and cluster it up to 9-10 total hours :) That's how I do it.
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Depends on what time you have to get up, I get at best between 6 and 7 hours during the week, up at 6am
 
mickc1965 said:
Depends on what time you have to get up, I get at best between 6 and 7 hours during the week, up at 6am
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Same here. I catch up at the weekends usually.

Read an interesting swedish study regarding sleep recently. Those that dont get enough sleep during the week and dont catch up at the weekends are more likely to hit the proverbial wall.
 
It's not so much the training, but my two little daughters that are draining my energy!!! If I didn't have kids I could train for 60+ minutes every day!

Exhausting, but at least I don't have an army of children like Totentanz! :)
 
Screwed the science, just went into bodybuilding mania....

Got:
Reverse Flys: 80x15, 90x12, 90x8
Flys: 130x12, 150x8
Pulldowns: 220x8
Decline Bench: 225x7
Seated Press: 115x8
Laterals: 20s x10
Curls: 115x8
Skullcrushers: 115x8
Leg Press: 270x15, single leg: 270x6 (not counting sled)
Lying Leg Curl: 110x15, 130x10
Calf raise: 320x10,10,7

Done in 50 minutes.... at fast pace.

This is more my style, (I am Bipolar type 1, so I have a manic edge that i channel into weights.) If some moderator is reading this, just chnage the thread title to:

SCI's Bipolar Weightlifting Log.

:p
 
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It may very well be that the recommended 30-60 rep range per MG is for someone at or near their genetic limits (both strength & size-wise), simply because it allows them to keep the progression ball rolling, the same way less experienced lifters manage to do at a lower volume. Meaning, if seasoned folks do NOT increase the volume of work their muscles experience (within some defined time-frame, say 1 week), they will be unable to progress in loads, and hence, further hypertrophy may be compromised. Bryan may be forced to do 30-60 reps per MG only because at his training age he's unlikely to be able to increase his strength at will, and in order to combat the RBE (which no amount of SD can counter sooner or later because it's more of a global, systemic issue), he just *has* to increase work done, either directly through per-bout volume, or indirectly through more frequent bouts.
 
Sci said:
It's not so much the training, but my two little daughters that are draining my energy!!! If I didn't have kids I could train for 60+ minutes every day!

Exhausting, but at least I don't have an army of children like Totentanz! :)
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Lol

Having a job that requires you to work more than 40 hours a week consistently doesn't help either. All the biggest guys I know either do it as their job or are sponsored and only work part time, giving them a lot more time and energy to devote to lifting. For normal guys like us, it's not likely you'll become gigantic or that you'll ever be able to devote as much time, passion and energy as these other dudes do.

Don't worry, eventually the kids move out and work gets easier, then you'll have plenty of time to focus on lifting and diet.
 
Just finished a big plate of eggs, oatmeal, potatoes and blueberries... With my growing 16 month old daughter. She ate almost as much as me! Amazing how fast they grow at this age!
 
Joe.Muscle said:
Bryan actually does 50 reps per muscle group during the 10's and 30 reps per muscle group during the 5's.
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I know of the 50-60 reps per MG during 10's, but has he ever mentioned doing 30 reps per MG during 5's in his own training? I thought it was more like 3 sets of 5's plus some 10-15 rep finishing work.

Anyway, I remember reading this key note by him, although it dates back to the before-Wernbom era (BW):
Bryan Haycock said:
Muscle tissue has essentially the same composition and physical properties regardless of how much it has hypertrophied. For this reason, there exists a non-relative or independent threshold for how much load must be applied before it will respond significantly.

As long as one trains with absolute loads below this threshold, they will never induce significant hypertrophy regardless of the volume of training. On the flip side as long as one uses weights above this threshold growth is assured (or size is maintained) with little difference seen between exact numbers of reps, sets, etc. Once again, none of these can be represented by fixed values...biology is analog, not digital if you get my drift.
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Joe.Muscle said:
Go down to the 7th post and see his response.

http://www.exercisebiology.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/355/P0/
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Good, thanks. Also, an interesting part:
Once again, from my experience, both in grad school, and in the gym, and examining research such as Wernbom’s I feel that it is tension, not fatigue, that is the primary stimulus for growth in adult natural lifters. Wernbom alludes to this when he mentions that high loads with very low volume (e.g. ~12-14 total reps) also lead to significant hypertrophy. This is a high-load/low fatigue situation.
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I think AlexAustralia proves this in his thread, doing similar volume with heavy loads. And I think I do too, because 12-20 is my current rep target with heavy loads (3-4RM) in incline bench presses (wide grip and then narrow grip 6 exercises later).
Ok, I won't be hijacking this thread anymore :)
 
Tension has always been the stimulus. Fatigue has it's uses, and they are many, but it is not the primary, and I'd say not even a particularly significant stimulus for hypertrophy - check a marathon runner's physique, compare a swimmer who sprints with one who does the 1500m etc.

Load => muscles.
 
I do reach a point of fatigue (getting close to failure), in the couple finishing 8-15RM sets. I may also extend the final set by 1-2 additional myo-rep clusters. My last incline bench example:
4RM: 4,3,3,2
10RM (considering accumulated fatigue): 10
12-15RM: 12+1+1 myo, singles spaced 3 breaths apart. Will keep the load constant until I can do 15 non-stop.

So the 10 & 12-15 are very close to failure, I'd call them [email protected], and they don't seem to be compromising recovery. I also do band-resisted incline pushups at home on days off + some myo-repped band rows + band lateral & front raises + bis curls, attempting to hit 50 reps in each as per these recommendations. So like you I train the muscles I intend to accentuate (which for me is upper body) 6 days a week.

p.s.: oops, turning this into my own log again, sorry, Sci, I hope you won't get discouraged and will keep doing 30-60 reps per MG which are still optimal at least for ramping-up loads at the 3 times per week frequency :) What you do next depends on your attitude towards lifting. I simply cannot bear having to limit my load progression in order to stay within the 30 reps @85% loads. Maybe it's a bad choice of mine, I dunno. You'll tell us :)
 
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This is why I like mikeynov's idea of adding a strength phase after the 12s and 8s are over. Most of my size/strength has been developed using heavy loads and lower volume than Wernbom suggests.
 
SO far, I am very pleased with the 3x10 setup. I don't really like training super-heavy, and will not likely go above my 6RM. I think the volume and loading I am doing is perfect for optimal hypertrophy... the main problem is the same as ALWAYS... frequency. It is very difficult to get my ass in the gym frequent enough. I like 3x/week ideally per bodypart, 2x/ minimum. As I have stated before the ideal would be an upper on day 1, and lower on day 2, alternating and training 6x/week.... I just haven't been able to make that a reality.

I am moving up the loads slightly, probably go for 3x8 for awhile.
 
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