I'm an old man and HST is wearing me out

S

Solid

New Member
I am just finishing the 3rd week of HST. I like it, but I am getting some overuse joint pain. Things like tendinitis. I am wondering how I should proceed.

I am 45 years old and have been lifting regularly for the last 5 years. I consider myself an intermediate lifter. I have done a variety of programs, usually focusing on strength. Most recently I did the 5-3-1 program for about a year. This spring I lost about 15 pounds. Most of what I lost was fat, but I also lost some strength. I think my size is limiting my strength, so I decided to gain some weight this fall and winter with the ultimate goal of putting up bigger numbers.

I usually take quite a few days off between workouts. For example, I will only squat once per week. The volume with this routine is more than I am used to. I suspect my age may be my biggest problem. So I am wondering how to proceed. Normally I would just take a few days off, but workout frequency seems to be one of the most important parts of the HST program.

I currently am doing 2 sets of these exercises: Squat, Shrug, Bench press, Row, JM press, Curl. One thing I may try is cutting down my sets from 2 to 1.

Any ideas or advice?

Thanks
 
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i am 56 and am trying to get this thing rolling also.....how big of increments for weights are you useing...i made the mistake of useing too little of an increment.....
 
never thought of being an old man.....i know though that when you work too often to near your max......your start feeling overdone......
 
diogeneese said:
i am 56 and am trying to get this thing rolling also.....how big of increments for weights are you useing...i made the mistake of useing too little of an increment.....
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I am using 5 pounds increments, except for the Shrug where I am using 10. If I had used bigger increments, then most weeks I would be working well below my maxes. So I guess that would help keep me from burning out, although it might also keep me from growing.
 
diogeneese said:
never thought of being an old man.....i know though that when you work too often to near your max......your start feeling overdone......
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Well, I certainly can't recover like I could when I was younger. Less testosterone and things like that I guess.
 
You are using too small of increments. Post your entire layout along with the loads you are using. The whole point of HST is that you do not need to lift at total max or so close to your max all the time in order to stimulate hypertrophy, and in fact, as you have found out through direct experience, working so close to your maxes will make you burn out very quickly if you are lifting three times a week. So you either have to drop your frequency or else stop lifting so heavy all the time. Since lower frequency is not as good for muscle growth, obviously that's not the ideal choice here... So stop lifting so heavy. Start out each microcycle at 70% of your max for that cycle and evenly space out your increments between 70% of your max and 100% of your max. Don't worry, you won't turn into a girl if you stop lifting so heavy.
 
I agree with Totentanz, "You are using too small of increments." I've tried a lot of different programs, and I always get my best results with HST. It's kind of a paradigm shift in that you don't have to work hard every workout. HST is definitely different than a lot of training programs. You don't have to work hard every workout, just smart. It's really strange, with half the workouts, I just feel refreshed.

I would also suggest taking 3-5 days off to recover and redo your numbers. I've done cycles with squat w/ 40lb increments. It still works too. The first week of the microcycle is basically "keeping the joints warm" with light weight. The sets of 15 are humbling when you're only using 65 lbs or so. 6 week later though, you're using serious weight.

Hope that helps,
Clay
 
Not only that, but research shows that you don't even need to go that heavy for the weight to be effective. Your 15 RM should be effective already at stimulating at least some growth. So once you get into the 10s, you are definitely working with heavy enough loads for it to be effective, hence why you do not need to stay so close to your RMs. Seriously, I don't know what your RMs are, but if you were squatting say 315 for your 10 RM, that means that you are starting out the 10s with 290 lbs on the first day. That's pretty friggin close to your RM and squatting that heavy three times a week for several weeks? Going to burn anybody out.

One other thing to look at is your nutrition. How many calories are you putting in each day? Fewer calories and you will get closer to burning out. Your body needs a lot of fuel to be able to deal with all the strain you are putting on it. Some other things I would recommend is some fish oil. That helps a lot with keeping my joints healthy. Are you taking any vitamins at all? If so, what are you taking?
 
Maybe I misunderstood how to setup the program. Here is what I have done so far.

PRs
Body weight: 175
Bench press: 260
Row: 275
Squat: 245
Deadlift: 405

All exercises 2 sets x 15 reps
Sat 9/25: Squat 125, Shrug 215, Bench press 110, Row 110, JM press 70, Curl 25
Mon 9/27: Squat 130, Shrug 225, Bench press 115, Row 115, JM Press 75, Curl 30
Wed 9/29: Squat 135, Shrug 235, Bench press 120, Row 120, JM Press 80, Curl 35
Sat 10/2: Squat 140, Shrug 245, Bench press 125, Row 125, JM Press 85, Curl 40
Mon 10/4: Squat 145, Shrug 255, Bench press 130, Row 130, JM Press 90, Curl 45
Thu 10/7: Squat 150, Shrug 265, Bench press 135, Row 135, JM Press 95, Curl 50

All exercises 2 sets x 10 reps
Sun 10/10: Squat 170, Shrug 295, Bench press 155, Row 155, JM press 105, Curl 55
Tue 10/12: Squat 175, Shrug 305, Bench press 160, Row 160, JM press 110, Curl 60
 
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Totentanz said:
One other thing to look at is your nutrition. How many calories are you putting in each day? Fewer calories and you will get closer to burning out. Your body needs a lot of fuel to be able to deal with all the strain you are putting on it. Some other things I would recommend is some fish oil. That helps a lot with keeping my joints healthy. Are you taking any vitamins at all? If so, what are you taking?
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My nutrition is good. I eat healthy, and I've increased my calories for this program. I also take a multivitamin, fish oil, and glucosamine-chondroitin supplements.
 
you have made the same mistake i have made.....those increments are way too small.....good luck and thanks totentaz for your guidance and patience....
 
I think the HST writeup ought to be modified. It never says start at 70% and work up in increments of 5%. In fact, the example given starts at 88% and works up in increments of 2.5%:

• There is an obligatory increase in weight (from 5-20 lbs.) each workout. This means that at times you may be working with less than your maximum weight for any given rep scheme. This is by design. You will reach max poundages for a given rep range on the last workout of each two week block.
• Determining weights for each workout: Assign your max weights to the final workout of each 2 week block. Then, in 5-10 pound increments, assign weights in decreasing fashion starting from the last workout working backward to the first. So, for example, if your 10 rep max is 200 pounds, assign 200 pounds for the last workout of the 10 rep block, then assign weights that build up to your max in 6 workouts. For our example, using 5 pound increments, the weights for the whole 2 week block would be 175,180,185,190,195, and 200. Do this for each exercise for each rep scheme.
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OK, I plan to take a few days off and rest. And then restart using bigger increments.

Thanks everyone for the help.
 
i am in my 5th week starting tomorrow....and i will make sure my increments are at least 10 pounds...i made the mistake of swithcing from things like dips to benches and i would not do it properly......that is, i would be 10 pounds heavier next i did dips but i should have been 20....dont know if that makes sense....anyway i think in the past in all the programs i did i stayed too close to maxes......and so even when working out a body part once per week i would hit bottom quickly......i would get stronger to a point and then my weight would nose dive....so this seems more reosonable....or hollistic?????? so in my next cycle i will see if things go much better...
 
Solid,
The things you posted are eerily similar to me. Same age, exact same supplements along with the exact same feeling... Old and worn out. I felt compelled to register, after lurking here for a couple months, and respond to you.

In my first round of HST I developed tendinitis in my patellar tendon in both knees, about half way through the 5's microcycle. I ended up dropping squats to rehab, that is until the last (#6) work out of 5's. Which I should have skipped too because my knees were NOT happy.

I want to point out I did follow the protocol of starting with 70% of RM and followed the increases according to the HST calculator.

I'm in my second cycle of HST now and decided to leave squats out of this time. I traded them for deadlifts and the tendinitis is almost gone. Although every other workout I do swap deads for a "leg" exercise. Decided I will do this next cycle too when I return to squats... Alternate with another leg exercise that doesn't hit the Rectus Femoris as hard as squats seem to do for me.

I just think there are just some things us 'life experienced guys' can't do at greater frequency. Like squat three days a week.
 
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One thing to note for "older" guys... you may want to get your hormones and etc checked out. If you are feeling tired a lot, you might have low testosterone. I know there have been others here who have found the same and once they got on hormone replacement therapy, they felt a lot better and made much better progress.

I'm not surprised if you are having problems squatting three times a week though. I'm doing it twice a week now and can barely handle it.
 
Damn I am 43 and still think I am young (ish)

I have had similar issues with burnout to what you guys have pointed out so I thought i would let you know what I have changed that has helped me. I had to re-structrure my training differently becasue of my work commitments, however this proved to work in my favour. I now only train with weights twice a week even if I get the extra time to do more.

15's - Normally only I set
Dips alternate with Chins each session
Bench close grip
Declined dumbell presses
Squat alternate with Deads each session
Military presses

The above don't take me much more than 30 mins and I have to fight the urge not to do more, if I cannot do 15 reps I cluster to 20 reps and adjust my weight for next session likewise if I don't feel I have done enough I will do an extra set. Due to my age, work schedule etc... some session's I just have more energy and drive so I use it if its in the tank.

Like Totentanz said earlier I find doing Squats and Deads at the end of my session works better and from 10's onwards I am toast the next day if I try to do both Squats and Deads in the same session they just kill my CNS.

After 15s I choose which body area's I need to pay a little more attention too so in the following example I have added a couple of extra exercises to focus on my arms and chest.

10s- I split my routines into two sets of exercises one set being all "pull" exercises and one with all "push " exercises
Push session
Dips & push ups
Bench
Military presses
Squats

I am doing some extra chest work so will superset my bench with some extra dumbell chest sets (decline & incline)

Pull session
Chins
Cleans
Rows
Shrugs
Deads

On my pull sessions I add in some arm work usually barbell arm curls

5s - I follow the same two training routines as in the 10's but I also add some extra sets on arms and chest to compliment what I have been doing in the 10's such as preacher curls and flys. I also move to push presses instead of Military presses to ge the weight up. Depending on how I am feeling with the 5's I will extend to a third or even 4th week of 5s or 3s.

General
My routine means i only do 4 training sesions in each cycle of 15s and 10s so I use larger increments in each session, as an example for squats and Deads I will add at least 10kg per session.

Supplements.
Fish oil - At least 20mg a day
Vitamin C
Glutamine
Multi vitamin
Whey protein

I am going to add ZMA and creatine

My main problem is a lack of sleep and cortisol but I am working on both of these.

Results
I am just starting my 3rd HST cycle and by following the above I have been able to increase my strength, gain some size around 7lb per cycle and I have been slowly reducing my overall bf%. Pretty sure the fat loss has been mainly through small changes in my diet though. I have put over 1.5 inch on my kneck, over 1 inch on my wrists, 2 inch on my thighs and my shoulders and back are considerably thicker.

Prior to finding the HST site I had been doing stronglift 5 x 5s, I got my back squat to around 100kg and my deadlift to around 125kg in around 9 months. I hurt my back using bad technique after around 4 months on the 5 x 5s. I learned a lesson and started again with good technique this time. The 5 x 5s give me a great foundation to build on as I train on my own. I found I was struggling to increase the wieght in my lifts by any real % until I found HST :D:D:D

My current stats and PRs are

Age : 43
Height : 5 feet 7 inches
Weight : 170lbs
BF : 16%

Bench : 205lb
Squat : 286
Deads : 320


Kev
 
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thanks kevan67 for adding that....i have toyed with twice per week....has anyone else had success with twice per week.....any of you experts suggest some of us try this or do you think we should stick to the main format until we get things right....we should start an old fats category.....
 
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