Light versus heavy weight

Hi, Joe, I did that surplus thing for three freaking years :) And now I can say with all confidence: enough of that. I've put on some muscle evidenced by tracking my sizes, sure thing, but the price to pay for that was quite huge: 100 cm (39") waist! When I finally get lean, I'll slowly start eating a bit more while keeping fat gains in check. The usual "rebound" at that time will probably bring some of my muscle size back. But there's no way I will eat away uncontrollably like I did before.
 
Rihad, I hear what you are saying. Just bear in mind that your maitenace level of calories goes up as you do more.

Forgetting about all the calorie stuff for a minute, what I do not understand is how you could be 5'7", 156 pounds and have a 39" waist after 3 years of lifting! Many studies say, without taking into account lifting weights, that is takes about 7-8 pounds of weight to lose or gain 1" around the waist. I am not sure how good that number is but let's assume it is only 5 pounds per inch. For you to diet down to a more desireable 32" waist would require reducing your weight to about 120 pounds (156 pounds -(5 pounds X 7 inches)) and you would be pretty sickly looking. That does not make any sense to me. Granted we are all different but not to that degree. Your waist would have to be as big as your chest based on the numbers you are quoting. Are the numbers wrong? Are you just fooling with us? Are you built like a pumpkin? What's the scoop here Rihad?
 
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HST_Rihad said:
Hi, Joe, I did that surplus thing for three freaking years :) And now I can say with all confidence: enough of that. I've put on some muscle evidenced by tracking my sizes, sure thing, but the price to pay for that was quite huge: 100 cm (39") waist! When I finally get lean, I'll slowly start eating a bit more while keeping fat gains in check. The usual "rebound" at that time will probably bring some of my muscle size back. But there's no way I will eat away uncontrollably like I did before.
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No, you didn't. You just over-ate.

You didn't count calories, you didn't calculate what your actual maintenance level was and you didn't have enough protein (the macro type that leads to least fat gain - and yes, protein is expensive in money terms).
 
Old and Grey said:
Are the numbers wrong? Are you just fooling with us? Are you built like a pumpkin? What's the scoop here Rihad?
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C'mon, guys :D What I wrote:
HST_Rihad said:
I've put on some muscle evidenced by tracking my sizes, sure thing, but the price to pay for that was quite huge: 100 cm (39") waist!
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That was before I started eating less.

Mar'13 (begin): 80kg/100cm (176lbs/39.3")
Jun'13 (today): 69.8kg/86.2cm (154lbs/33.9")
-22lbs/-5.4"
 
AlexAustralia said:
No, you didn't. You just over-ate.

You didn't count calories, you didn't calculate what your actual maintenance level was and you didn't have enough protein (the macro type that leads to least fat gain - and yes, protein is expensive in money terms).
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I could pick any recent popular diet book and it would tell me pretty much the same thing. But calories are a gross estimate. You can't predict or really know how much you expend on a day to day basis. A few extra stand ups from the chair you're sitting on, and we could be talking 30-40 cal slip-offs. Then when I see a daily "norm" of 1683 cals set up by some poor dude and putting it out on his blog, I can't help but laugh at it. Before finally starting to eat less, I had long thought eating to gain in weight to add muscle was the way to go, that I was doing the right thing as a bodybuilder. It turns out I was wrong, or better yet, it wasn't the best way to do it. Now I have proved to myself that I can lose weight by simply eating less, with only roughly counting the amount of needed protein (70-120g per day), and making sure to get carbs somewhere above 100g daily to be at a safe distance from going keto. That's it. When I finally do get lean (and the previous 3 months have shown that it's only a matter of time), I don't think I will change my eating habits in an incompatible way. I'll simply start eating a bit more.
 
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Dated today:

Mar'13 (begin): 80kg/100cm (176lbs/39.3")
Jun'13 (today): 69.8kg/86.2cm (154lbs/33.9")

Dated Yesterday:

(156 lbs) @171 cm (5'7")

And then dated today again:

Hi, Joe, I did that surplus thing for three freaking years And now I can say with all confidence: enough of that. I've put on some muscle evidenced by tracking my sizes, sure thing, but the price to pay for that was quite huge: 100 cm (39") waist! When I finally get lean, I'll slowly start eating a bit more while keeping fat gains in check. The usual "rebound" at that time will probably bring some of my muscle size back. But there's no way I will eat away uncontrollably like I did before. May'13 PRs: Leg press 280 kg (617 lbs) x 5, Incline bench 82,5 kg (182 lbs) x 5, BB Shrugs 127,5 kg (281 lbs) x 5 @BW 71 kg (156 lbs) @171 cm (5'7")

Rihad , that makes no sense to me. Sorry but I would love to help you but you make no sense,

You may mean well but I think you detract from what this forum is really about. I think you should find a forum that agrees with what you beleive, what ever that is!
 
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HST_Rihad said:
I could pick any recent popular diet book and it would tell me pretty much the same thing. But calories are a gross estimate. You can't predict or really know how much you expend on a day to day basis. A few extra stand ups from the chair you're sitting on, and we could be talking 30-40 cal slip-offs. Then when I see a daily "norm" of 1683 cals set up by some poor dude and putting it out on his blog, I can't help but laugh at it. Before finally starting to eat less, I had long thought eating to gain in weight to add muscle was the way to go, that I was doing the right thing as a bodybuilder. It turns out I was wrong, or better yet, it wasn't the best way to do it. Now I have proved to myself that I can lose weight by simply eating less, with only roughly counting the amount of needed protein (70-120g per day), and making sure to get carbs somewhere above 100g daily to be at a safe distance from going keto. That's it. When I finally do get lean (and the previous 3 months have shown that it's only a matter of time), I don't think I will change my eating habits in an incompatible way. I'll simply start eating a bit more.
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Educated guesses are always better than taking blindfolded shots in the dark.

Furthermore, your own fat gains support my very point.

You're also drastically underestimating the ability of modern science to put your caloric expenditure down to a pragmatic range that you can then base your eating upon.
 
O&G, sorry for the misunderstanding. I probably should've made it clearer that 100 cm related to the old me, before starting dieting. I did update my progress in my log a while ago, though.
Sorry for hijacking your thread, I won't post here stuff unrelated to the subject line any more.

AlexAustralia, I was wrong before, not paying attention to fat gains, thinking it would somehow go away with time, but after much reading on the mechanisms of how fat is gained and lost, I finally began making more educated guesses.

p.s.: would anyone interested in the discussion relating to how I make progress please continue making comments in my log.
 
You dieted off 20 pounds and 4 inches off your waist. That lends some credence to the 5 pounds per inch estimate.

Now if you go into a caloric surplus of 300-500 calories per day, you should be able to build size over time without ballooning your waist. Just make sure you emphasis quality protein, preferably meat, and good fats. Take out sugars and restrict simple carbs. Combine that with solid compound movements and you should be able to add about 20 pounds of muscle within a year without gaining much fat at all.

Not trying to chase you away but it has been a confusing ride. Now I think I have most of the facts straight after reading your log. Just remember that working out for an hour lifting weights typically burns 300-400 calories so you need to adjust your "maintenance" level accordingly.

O&G :cool:
 
Old and Grey said:
Now if you go into a caloric surplus of 300-500 calories per day, you should be able to build size over time without ballooning your waist.
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All 500 calories per day above the point of "sufficient" calories is gonna do is put on a pound of fat every week.
In any case, it could be more efficient to eat a bit over the edge on the days with workout, and eat a bit less than normal on rest days to stave off fat gains. I will check that out as soon as I decide to stop cutting.
 
HST_Rihad said:
All 500 calories per day above the point of "sufficient" calories is gonna do is put on a pound of fat every week.QUOTE]

If that were true then your whole body would be fat with no muscle.

It all depends on your definition of "sufficient." It may already incorporate the maintenance excess required to build a larger body. Or, it may assume something like the theory of turning ordinary metal (fat) into gold (muscle).

Either way, good luck.

O&G :cool:
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Old and Grey said:
If that were true then your whole body would be fat with no muscle.
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Alas, gaining and especially keeping the fat is a lot easier than one may think. Overeating for a couple of days a week and eating normal on all others is all it takes for the fat mass to eventually pile up. Fat doesn't cost our bodies much to have day after day, so it will not go away if we simply eat at maintenance, after occasional periods of overeating at some point.
 
Totentanz said:
Might want to look into a little thing called p-ratio.
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Correct. That is why I keep harping on people knowing their Testosterone levels as that is one of the few factors that we can actually manipulate to impact our genetically given p-ratio. The higher the T level, the more efficient the p-ratio. Please note, that I am not referring to illegal steroids but merely making sure that you run as close to the high "normal" range as possible if you want to be "natural."

I suspect, but really have no idea, that Rihad may have low T levels and high cortisol levels. That may partially account for his strange fat-to-muscle gain imbalance.
 
I think I just overate at some time ;)
I don't know, guys, unfortunately for fear of muscle loss I cannot hasten fat loss, it's taking place at its own rate. I'll let progress, or lack thereof, in what I'm trying to accomplish speak for itself.
 
Old and Grey said:
Rihad, do you know your Testosterone level in ng/dl?
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No, I've never measured it, and I don't think it's that easy or affordable to get at it in a 3rd world country like mine :) FWIW, my beard hardly grows, if I don't shave for a few days there of course will appear some traces of beard and moustache, but no stubble overall as you would normally expect from someone at my age (hell, at half my age!). Don't know if it's related, but I don't really care. My chest isn't hairy either, but I do have normal hair growth in my armpits, and in another place where healthy males normally have it :)
 
Well, my friend, you are flying through the mountains without an altimeter or radar in a snowstorm with a radio that only transmits and does not receive. You can only really experiment and see what happens with various calorie routines but that will take a while to find the right combination. Good luck!

BTW, there are some salivary testosterone tests available through the internet that I hear are accurate but I don't know much about them nor can I recommend one.

O&G :cool:
 
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