My Apologies

Discussion in 'FYI' started by Bryan Haycock, Jun 7, 2007.

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  1. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    I just wanted to apologize to any of you who have been personal attacked or threatened either on the board or by email, PM, etc by “John Steel”. I too have received several inflammatory emails from this person.

    I am concerned about any personal threats that I have read about on the board. This is serious and something that is absolutely not tolerated.

    Please report such activity to me if it should happen in the future. Even if it is a private communication, if this person is using this forum to harass and threaten other members I need to know about it.

    Once again, I apologize for any problems that this individual has caused and will do my best not to allow this to happen in the future.

    All my best,


    -bryan
     
  2. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    Its not your fault. Its a great site, and its free. We all know you have to make a living like the rest of us, and don't always have the time to post or moderate constantly.
    Thanks for you intervention though, much appreciated here.
     
  3. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Wow, had me fooled.
     
  4. <div>
    (quadancer @ Jun. 07 2007,16:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Wow, had me fooled.</div>
    You`re too friendly, that`s your issue [​IMG]

    Bryan, is it safe to assume that this clears up to some extent my "sarcasm", as you called it?And I don`t see why you`d waste time reading the PMs we received starting with Nigga, p....y, c..t etc. It`s not like the internetz aren`t full of tough guys. You need to finish that book [​IMG]
     
  5. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    <div>
    (Morgoth the Dark Enemy @ Jun. 07 2007,15:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (quadancer @ Jun. 07 2007,16:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Wow, had me fooled.</div>
    You`re too friendly, that`s your issue [​IMG]

    Bryan, is it safe to assume that this clears up to some extent my "sarcasm", as you called it?And I don`t see why you`d waste time reading the PMs we received starting with N1gga, p....y, c..t etc. It`s not like the internetz aren`t full of tough guys. You need to finish that book [​IMG]</div>
    Let's just say this grew way out of hand rather quickly, and no I don't blame anyone here.

    It's true, at times I ask that you guys grin and bear some of the "strong personalities" that we get now and then (Allman?) but when people come on and are just ... well, you know what I mean. We don't need any "tough guys".
     
  6. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Some are funny; some are not.
     
  7. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Bryan

    Some of us tried our best to "settle" this character by highlighting the nature of the forum and whilst still being kind I sent a warning to JV, sorry should've pm'd you as well.

    Whenever I see these type of things I'll always either interfere directly and kindly or report it and try to get it sorted out.

    Our site is just too good to permit this "primitive" behaviour altogether.

    You're doing a great job and it takes a heart of gold to apologize for something you had no control of...now go and finish that book dude! [​IMG]
     
  8. jvroig

    jvroig Super Moderator

    I am personally saddened by this turn of events.

    Because of the PM that Fausto sent me to direct to my attention certain unwarranted behavior, I searched for all posts of John Steel in order to review them. Most of them were valid, helpful, and even kind posts. Informative, non-threatening and even with a smiley at the end. However, when some sarcasm was involved due to a disagreement of opinions, I found that things did get out of hand really quickly. He does not seem to be able to take such things lightly. This is merely my observation of what happened by reviewing several threads.

    I hope disagreements in the future will be handled in a more mature way, by BOTH parties, not just by the hotter-headed. We can all learn from this experience. Sometimes, you should have the good sense to cut down on your insults (whether in the form of sarcasm or humor or whatever it is you disguised your insults with), no matter how crazy you think the other party's idea is.

    Bryan has just clearly and definitely mentioned that abusive and threatening behavior has no place here. From now on, I will actively shut down threads or delete posts that are outright inflammatory. I encourage different opinions, in the hopes that we will continually have enlightening discussions and debates. But when a disagreement turns into a bullying session or an exchange of threats or personal insults, I will not think twice about shutting down the thread. If you wish to report something, do a "Fausto" and pm me, preferrably include the link to such a post/thread.
     
  9. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Batman

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I will actively shut down threads or delete posts that are outright inflammatory</div>

    Done in the true superhero way, shut down all threatds and threats! [​IMG] No pun intended!

    We need to start doing this, it is best for all. It is the way forward.

    Batman you still being very kind just putting this dude in probation.

    IMO he has gone too far when he started actively doing PM threats, tsss...tsss...tsss, not good.

    But thanks for all the good work. Long live the HST forum, lets keep it clean. [​IMG]
     
  10. <div>
    (jvroig @ Jun. 08 2007,03:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I am personally saddened by this turn of events.

    Because of the PM that Fausto sent me to direct to my attention certain unwarranted behavior, I searched for all posts of John Steel in order to review them. Most of them were valid, helpful, and even kind posts. Informative, non-threatening and even with a smiley at the end. However, when some sarcasm was involved due to a disagreement of opinions, I found that things did get out of hand really quickly. He does not seem to be able to take such things lightly. This is merely my observation of what happened by reviewing several threads.

    I hope disagreements in the future will be handled in a more mature way, by BOTH parties, not just by the hotter-headed. We can all learn from this experience. Sometimes, you should have the good sense to cut down on your insults (whether in the form of sarcasm or humor or whatever it is you disguised your insults with), no matter how crazy you think the other party's idea is.

    Bryan has just clearly and definitely mentioned that abusive and threatening behavior has no place here. From now on, I will actively shut down threads or delete posts that are outright inflammatory. I encourage different opinions, in the hopes that we will continually have enlightening discussions and debates. But when a disagreement turns into a bullying session or an exchange of threats or personal insults, I will not think twice about shutting down the thread. If you wish to report something, do a "Fausto" and pm me, preferrably include the link to such a post/thread.</div>
    Deep within your heart, you realize that he is a troll, and that everything went according to his plan from the get-go, right?At least in his latest incarnation, which may have little to do with the person who originally registered here. Because if you want to tell me that this really helpful goodwanting bro, decide, ACCIDENTALLY, to post in a thread that was rather moronic in its initial premise, and, also ACCIDENTALLY, chose to post something that was bound to rub everyone here, that actually knows something, the wrong way, and also ACCIDENTALY used arguments that are quite typical for a certain category that is frowned upon here, then, also accidentally, spammed a number of PM inboxes here with threats, cursing, and whatnot(and I mean spammed, I have about 10 PMs received from the character in a window of only a few hours, all along the same lines), and ACCIDENTALLY started cursing and attacking directly on the forum, well, allow me to say that so many accidents rarely, if ever, happen at the same time, with the same person, in the same context.

    Not to mention stating some measurements and posting pictures that probably weren`t his and also had nothing to do with the stated measurements, not to mention stating that he trains westside+hit+hst+whatever, not to mention that he brought bro-logic into whatever possible argument(all of the above also obvious causes for antagonism on this board). So this was a troll, in the very sense of the word, even if he added smilies to his posts and seemed helpful at the beginning. Because trolling seems to be a very involving sport these days, and more and more pros show up. So keep this in mind when you get him back on board and after 5 retarded posts he gets...ummm....laughed at and goes on a PM killing spree. [​IMG]
     
  11. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    He still sucked at teh internet
     
  12. Internet`s not old skool, that`s why he sucked. Really.:D
     
  13. jvroig

    jvroig Super Moderator

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Deep within your heart, you realize that he is a troll, and that everything went according to his plan from the get-go, right?At least in his latest incarnation, which may have little to do with the person who originally registered here. Because if you want to tell me that this really helpful goodwanting bro, decide, ACCIDENTALLY, to post in a thread that was rather moronic in its initial premise, and, also ACCIDENTALLY, chose to post something that was bound to rub everyone here, that actually knows something, the wrong way, and also ACCIDENTALY used arguments that are quite typical for a certain category that is frowned upon here, then, also accidentally, spammed a number of PM inboxes here with threats, cursing, and whatnot(and I mean spammed, I have about 10 PMs received from the character in a window of only a few hours, all along the same lines), and ACCIDENTALLY started cursing and attacking directly on the forum, well, allow me to say that so many accidents rarely, if ever, happen at the same time, with the same person, in the same context.</div>

    Just because you think he is a troll doesn't mean he is. More importantly, assuming he is doesn't help at all. When he crossed the line and sent abusive PMs, that's grounds for deletion, no doubt about it (just to clarify, Bryan's the one who deleted him or gave him probation, whatever his status is right now), but that doesn't mean that everyone else involved is 100% guilt-free.

    This is for all of us. What I'm concerned about is that sometimes some people forget that not everyone is as knowledgeable as they are - or even that people may believe differently. Now, whoever you may be, if you are the first to throw an offensive volley by being sarcastic and ridiculing the person instead of refuting beliefs with facts, then you are part of my problem, and my problem is that I don't want people to shy away from HST or keep them from learning more about HST and getting involved because they get the impression that people here have an elitist attitude. Although some sarcasm and wit may make you more popular with some guys here, it doesn't help any newbies who are out here in the board trying to get a better grasp of HST.

    I repeat, I'm not defending JS. He crossed the line, he gets deleted. But just because he did so doesn't necessarily make everyone else guilt-free. This is a lesson for all of us. I don't appreciate the JS attitude, but I also don't appreciate the attitude of those who kept throwing fuel on the fire as those events happened. I also hate it when you assume you are better than someone else (lines like "sorry for stooping down to his level"), because that kind of arrogance is no different than the arrogance of those authoritative, strong personalities we've had on this board (Like Vince / Allman, same person I believe), and you know that it will just infuriate the other party even more so you are intentionally fanning the flames.
     
  14. <div>
    (jvroig @ Jun. 09 2007,10:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Deep within your heart, you realize that he is a troll, and that everything went according to his plan from the get-go, right?At least in his latest incarnation, which may have little to do with the person who originally registered here. Because if you want to tell me that this really helpful goodwanting bro, decide, ACCIDENTALLY, to post in a thread that was rather moronic in its initial premise, and, also ACCIDENTALLY, chose to post something that was bound to rub everyone here, that actually knows something, the wrong way, and also ACCIDENTALY used arguments that are quite typical for a certain category that is frowned upon here, then, also accidentally, spammed a number of PM inboxes here with threats, cursing, and whatnot(and I mean spammed, I have about 10 PMs received from the character in a window of only a few hours, all along the same lines), and ACCIDENTALLY started cursing and attacking directly on the forum, well, allow me to say that so many accidents rarely, if ever, happen at the same time, with the same person, in the same context.</div>

    Just because you think he is a troll doesn't mean he is. More importantly, assuming he is doesn't help at all. When he crossed the line and sent abusive PMs, that's grounds for deletion, no doubt about it (just to clarify, Bryan's the one who deleted him or gave him probation, whatever his status is right now), but that doesn't mean that everyone else involved is 100% guilt-free.

    This is for all of us. What I'm concerned about is that sometimes some people forget that not everyone is as knowledgeable as they are - or even that people may believe differently. Now, whoever you may be, if you are the first to throw an offensive volley by being sarcastic and ridiculing the person instead of refuting beliefs with facts, then you are part of my problem, and my problem is that I don't want people to shy away from HST or keep them from learning more about HST and getting involved because they get the impression that people here have an elitist attitude. Although some sarcasm and wit may make you more popular with some guys here, it doesn't help any newbies who are out here in the board trying to get a better grasp of HST.

    I repeat, I'm not defending JS. He crossed the line, he gets deleted. But just because he did so doesn't necessarily make everyone else guilt-free. This is a lesson for all of us. I don't appreciate the JS attitude, but I also don't appreciate the attitude of those who kept throwing fuel on the fire as those events happened. I also hate it when you assume you are better than someone else (lines like "sorry for stooping down to his level"), because that kind of arrogance is no different than the arrogance of those authoritative, strong personalities we've had on this board (Like Vince / Allman, same person I believe), and you know that it will just infuriate the other party even more so you are intentionally fanning the flames.</div>
    I`m at a loss as to how a...newbie, as you say, will be helped in his endeavour to learn about HST by an less than ideal signal to noise ratio. Because basically what you`re saying is that anyone can post anything, and if he`s determined enough to cling on to that anything, even if it`s beyond retarded, he should be catered to because...just because. If this forum becomes filled with:you gotta do ten types of curls, eat every 2.5 minutes exactly 32,(33) grams of protein, preferably raw etc. types of posts, how is one to distinguish what is what?Does it have anything to do with a training system that was developed by Bryan after years of education and studying on the topic, a system that draws its roots from proper research and not the anecdotal evidence of freakish triple headed biceps of pro-bbers?

    This is a general enquiry, spawned by a trend that`s noticeable lately on these boards. Is this the new scope of HST?And in this particular case, the man`s claims were argued against properly way before actual sarcasm was involved. And if one can`t handle some sarcasm and goes on a rampage just because his silly ideas aren`t embraced, is he really intelectually apt to be here?BBing.com, OxygenMag, Intense Muscle, sure, those heaven for this type of individual, but here?

    God knows I don`t know everything, and I`ve made a number of stupid claims since I`ve gotten involved in this and started learning about training, nutrition and so on. I think that no one can state, without fear of being horribly wrong, that he was always in the right, always correct, always educated, that all of his assertions were both intelligent and that, to use Internet lingo, he was never PWNED in a debate by someone more knowledgeable/educated. You can either learn from this, and accept that you`re not allknowing, or you can go amok and tell all the bros they`re wrong and you`re the only one who`s right.

    I guess my basic question is this:how low is the entry level?Is every nutty thing game for being posted here?
     
  15. RUSS

    RUSS Member

    JV,
    I hope you understand that I'm not disputing anything you've said even the unflattering parts that obviously apply to no-one but myself. In no way will I try to excuse behavior on my part that as you correctly pointed out was clearly rash.

    If you'll indulge me - I would like to flesh out the picture a bit tho - which while not vindicating me may help explain why I acted so out of character.Don't worry I will not "slide any veiled insults in" towards my "ex dance partner" so to speak.


    I DID do a "Fausto" and attempted (apparently unsuccessfully) to alert you that from point of "no need to thank me" , which believe it or not was not intended to trigger the resulting reactions it did - I began recieving a torrent of disturbingly vulgar and threatening E-mails ( while not exactly difficult to find out my E address -as my full and real name is perhaps unwisely listed in my profile - it was disconcerting that the length had been gone to none the less, in reaction to what at that point was simply disagreeing with an assertion while supplying fairly solid evidence for my views- the Nautilus bulletins) . I use a wireless laptop plagued with connection issues that frequently dumps posts, correspondences, sometimes leading to double posts ect.ect. and it seems rather obvious now that you might not have recieved my "heads up". It also seems likely tho- that Bryan DID recieve a copy of a particularly disturbing threat to my wife that I forwarded to him.

    I was mistakingly under the impression that I was "on my own" with out moderator intervention and theses E-mails were alarming in thier content and frequency. my "goat was gotten", my cool lost, my composure thrown to the wind and I foolishly took it upon myself to get this behavior "exposed"
    by limiting my interaction to the thread in hopes of drawing this behavior out in front of public view.



    While I would not argue in hind sight that some rash posting decisions were made on my part , I know you've studied the thread and seen evidence of an early on "offer" to mutually delete .



    I am sorry for my behavior and ask for the bebefit of your doubt in light of ALL MY OTHER POSTS which show me to be the last person you would think would allow private threats to my person and family to cause me to retort publicly with "a sarcastic superiority". You'll see also that the first thing I did upon realizing the permenant absense of "the other guy" from this community was to go back and delete / edit ALL my posts in said thread , with out regard to how the missing info may make me look to future "virgin" readers.



    Once again I apologize to you, Bryan ,and the board while politely asking for the benefit of the doubt and perhaps a more balanced judgement of my behavior and what prompted it. [​IMG]



    RUSS
     
  16. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    A man threaten my wife and he'd better hide. Hide deep.
    Not any time.
    For any reason.
    Under any circumstances.
    EVER.
     
  17. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Although Russ has posted a long appologetic PM, I' dnow plead on his behalf that we forgive hime entirely as he has obviously "repented" of his behaviour.

    Pat of which was caused by the late intervention of JV for the fact that he had been busy at the time I PM'd him, nevertheless I am with Quad all the way, that is never called for whather we get the "goat up or not" enough to go a hunting for sure! [​IMG]
     
  18. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    As far as I am concerned, Russ was forgiven a long time ago. He was actually quite level-headed throughout his fight with JS. JS is the one who was resorting to profanity, etc.

    And I think that JS was seriously incorrect. We do not scare off all the newbies. Sometimes we might suggest that they do some reading on their own instead of just giving them the information, but we always help them out a great deal.
    This forum is a very easy going place where you can always find a lot of good help. And if anyone thinks otherwise, I suggest they go frequent Lyle's site for a while and then see if they still think that way. I mean, I love Lyle's site too, but it is obviously a much harsher place than here. So... anyone who thinks we are "hard" or anything doesn't know what they are talking about.
     
  19. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So... anyone who thinks we are "hard" or anything doesn't know what they are talking about. </div>

    Agreed! That's a given! [​IMG]
     
  20. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (Totentanz @ Jun. 10 2007,11:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">And I think that JS was seriously incorrect. We do not scare off all the newbies. Sometimes we might suggest that they do some reading on their own instead of just giving them the information, but we always help them out a great deal.</div>
    I'm about as newb as newb can be. So far I've gotten the best help from the articles and posters here, receiving patient answers despite asking some fairly dumb questions.

    The only things I've read so far that have been likely to "scare me off" were the profane rantings of JS. I am happy to see that such things get dealt with.
     
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