nkl's training log

Continuation of reality-check:

Hear this out: <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> Clin J Sport Med. 1995 Oct;5(4):223-8.Related Articles, Links
Fat-free mass index in users and nonusers of anabolic-androgenic steroids.

Kouri EM, Pope HG Jr, Katz DL, Oliva P. Biological Psychiatry Laboratory, McLean Hospital, Belmont, Massachusetts 02178, USA.

We calculated fat-free mass index (FFMI) in a sample of 157 male athletes, comprising 83 users of anabolic-androgenic steroids and 74 nonusers. FFMI is defined by the formula (fat-free body mass in kg) x (height in meters)-2. We then added a slight correction of 6.3 x (1.80 m - height) to normalize these values to the height of a 1.8-m man. The normalized FFMI values of athletes who had not used steroids extended up to a well-defined limit of 25.0. Similarly, a sample of 20 Mr. America winners from the presteroid era (1939-1959), for whom we estimated the normalized FFMI, had a mean FFMI of 25.4. By contrast, the FFMI of many of the steroid users in our sample easily exceeded 25.0, and that of some even exceeded 30. Thus, although these findings must be regarded as preliminary, it appears that FFMI may represent a useful initial measure to screen for possible steroid abuse, especially in athletic, medical, or forensic situations in which individuals may attempt to deny such behavior.
PMID: 7496846 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]</div>
My current stats: 59 [kg]/1,65[m]^2+6,3*(1,8[m]-1,65[m])=22,6

My LBM goal then, working backwards: 25*1,65[m]^2+6,3*(1,8[m]-1,65[m])=69 [kg]

This would mean that my genetic maximum is 69 kg [151,8 lbs] LBM (I'm short - I'll never be a 200 lbs brute...).
If I have 10 %BF at that point, this mean I should weigh 76,67 kg [168,7 lbs] total (of which 7,67 kg [16,87 lbs] being FM).

For sake of argument, I can add an additional 10 kg [22 lbs] of LBM @ a pace of approx. (according to Lyle):
1 kg [2 lbs] a month [9-11,4 kg or 20-25 lbs a year] as a beginner;
0,5 kg [1 lbs] a month [4,5-5,5 kg or 10-12 lbs a year] as an intermediate;
0,25 kg [0,5 lbs] a month [2,3-2,7 kg or 5-6 lbs a year] as an advanced

This means that I shouldn't be able to gain more than roughly 200-250 grams LBM per week.
After a 14-day gain of 1,9 kg this might be approx. 0,5 kg LBM and 1,4 kg fat and non-meat stuff (I feel full all the time).

But it would also mean that I would be able to reach my genetic potential within a year (I consider myself a newbie with only one year of serious training as starting point)! What?! Is that it?!

I have to maintain weight equilibrium on EOD to lose %BF and gain LBM. Else the gains will be primarily fat mass. I do the adjustments mentioned in the previous post (lower kcal intake on off-days (perhaps to 1200 kcals) and edge down a notch on WO days (perhaps 750+ kcals or even +500 kcals).

EDIT: colby and sci gained approx 12-12,5 kg [26-27,5 lbs] in one year (2006) (link here), and that is what the info from Lyle says too.

EDIT 2: Corrected error in formula and subsequent results.
 
Hey nkl, are you sure about that formula? I figure
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">We then added a slight correction of</div>
Mean
(fat-free body mass in kg) / (height in meters)^2 + 6.3 x (1.80 m - height)
So that in 1.8m people that adjustment is neutral.
 
electric, I stand corrected. I will edit this in my previous post. Thanks for noticing my err!

In my previous version a 180 cm tall person would get a zero kg answer, using multiplication instead of addition.
 
Thanks for the links!

I plugged the equation into my excel sheet and predicted the outcome at 10 %BF:
Lean body weight: 155.9 lbs [70,67 kg] Higher than my estimate by 3,52 lbs [1,6 kg].

That gives me 25,52 lbs [11,6 kg] until my genetic max. Still possible to attain one year from now (theoretically). But at 17,5 %BF I'm not so sure about hitting the 10 % mark. Should I aim at 13 %BF the equation spits back 157,9 lbs [71,6 kg]. That is 5,72 lbs [2,6 kg] more than the original estimate. At my current (but not wanted) %BF I get 160,48 lbs [72,9 kg].

Well, I can still make progress...
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Isn't that lovely!
 
Yesterday was off target by 600 kcals. I hadn't it in me to cook 120 grams of pasta at midnight and I was out of milk. I ended up with a surplus of 400 kcals.

Another bad was that the ghost of pack pain caught up with me again - meaning I will not be able to squat and deadlift for a while (again). The injury hadn't healed properly (too eager to get back on track).  
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As for today...

Morning brief:

Weight: 72,3 kg (159,1 lbs) (+0,9 kg [2,0 lbs] from yesterday) (+2,8 kg [6,2 lbs] from start)

Routine: Recovery

Target kcal: 1659 kcal (after subtracting TEM: 14,6% from 1943 kcals) (-1078 kcal)

Macros: 41% (145g) P; 28% (110g) C; 31% (54g) F (after subtracting TEM)
 
I wish I could be a little more like you bud. You seem so scientific in your approach. I am trying to at least monitor my calories more closely but I still really just ballpark my macros. I rely on my extra whey drinks and protein bar meals to keep me high in protein intake.

I hope to lear a bit from you guys as I go and maybe I will gain the discipline to do this one day.

I still have the old school technique: &quot;So you want to be big as a horse do you? Well, start by lifting that horse a few times then eat as much as that horse, take a breather and do it again.&quot;
 
You are welcome, Wildman! I think it takes some effort just to keep track of everything, but I previously didn't and it didn't do me no good. So here I am. The major difficulty is to function well in a social context, with family and all. You can't pig out at dinner just because you are doing an IF and is supposed to pig out. What kind of role model would you be for your children?!?
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Morning brief:

Weight: 71,3 kg (156,9 lbs) (-1,0 kg [-2,2 lbs] from yesterday) (+1,8 kg [4,0 lbs] from start)

Routine: HST 10s routine B (Rows, Bench, Squats, Press, Curls, Chrunches, Wrist extensions)
I hit the gym first thing in the morning and I did manage to squeze in some squats using a squat-machine (brand-new piece at my gym with back support). Didn't bother my back the least!

Target kcal: 3555 kcal (after subtracting TEM: 13,4% from 4105 kcals) (+501 kcal)
Yes, a noticable drop, but hey, I subtract TEM from a total 4105 kcals.

Macros: 31% (236g) P; 52% (442g) C; 17% (63g) F (after subtracting TEM)
 
Interesting log... I'll have to keep tabs on this one nkl! About my weight gain in 2006... my body fat percentage formula was consistently changing and being calibrated, but I think a waist-weight formula works much better. Here are my numbers (in English scales: inches/pounds), based on that bf%, in 2006:

DATE - WEIGHT - BF% - WAIST - LBM - FAT
1/1/2006 207 13.42% 34.5 179.22 27.78
2/1/2006 206 12.49% 34 180.48 25.77
3/1/2006 204 13.74% 34.5 175.97 28.03
4/1/2006 206 13.53% 34.5 178.14 27.86
5/1/2006 208 13.32% 34.5 180.30 27.70
6/1/2006 206 12.52% 34 180.21 25.79
7/1/2006 204 11.70% 33.5 180.12 23.88
8/1/2006 208 12.32% 34 182.38 25.62
9/1/2006 212 11.93% 34 186.70 25.30
10/1/2006 215 12.62% 34.5 187.88 27.13
11/1/2006 222 13.83% 35.5 191.30 30.70
12/1/2006 228 15.98% 37 191.57 36.43
 
Thanks for your input Colby, I'm honored!

Morning brief:

Weight: 72,1 kg (158,6 lbs) (+0,8 kg [1,8 lbs] from yesterday) (+2,6 kg [5,7 lbs] from start)

Routine: Recovery

Target kcal: 1465 kcal (after subtracting TEM: 15,4% from 1732 kcals) (-1241 kcal)

Macros: 45% (139g) P; 29% (101g) C; 27% (41g) F (after subtracting TEM)
 
2008-09-07:

Weight: 71,1 kg (156,4 lbs) (-1,0 kg [-2,2 lbs] from yesterday) (+1,6 kg [3,5 lbs] from start)

Routine: Recovery

Target kcal: 1462 kcal (after subtracting TEM: 12,8% from 1677 kcals) (-1323 kcal)

Macros: 32% (100g) P; 33% (116g) C; 34% (53g) F (after subtracting TEM)
 
2008-09-08:

Weight: 70,3 kg (154,7 lbs) (-0,8 kg [-1,8 lbs] from yesterday) (+0,8 kg [1,8 lbs] from start, 19 days ago)

Caliper: 14,9 mm (average of 13 measurements)

Waist: 87,5 cm (34,4 in)

Biceps: 32,5 cm (12,8 in) flexed

Routine: HST 10s routine A (Chins, Dips, Deadlift, Curls, Press, Chrunches, Wrist extensions)

Target kcal: 3410 kcal (after subtracting TEM: 13,7% from 3952 kcals) (+534 kcal)

Macros: 33% (237g) P; 52% (419g) C; 16% (57g) F (after subtracting TEM)

Graph (orange = actual measurement; white = 2-day moving average; black = computed LBM gain; thin blue/thick blue = estimates of possible LBM gains):
2008-09-08.jpg

Comment: This weekend was a drastic weight cut from 72,1 kg (158,6 lbs) down to the present value. Recomp or whatever (water, glycogen, stuff), I feel more built now, even if the waist measurement and caliper readings says I'm also slightly fatter.

From previous studies and some recent stuff I've studied the gain in LBM is more or less connected with the protein intake [1,2,3]. Storage is what is not oxidized. And roughly 20% of LBM is protein (as muscle glycogen levels fluctuate and holds approx. 4 g water per gram the correct value of LBM is only an average). From fat loss studies where protein intake was 50 g/d, 9.5±4.2 g/d protein was lost on a 800 kcal mixed diet (17.9±5.7 g/d on a low fat diet) [4]. That accounts as a 50 g/d loss of LBM (mixed). Storage is coupled to excess protein (range 100-150 g/d). The net increase is shown in the graph (although I have an intake way higher than 50 g/d on my off days I dare not be overly optimistic). My computation may be wrong, but it is based on part computed values based on data from these overfeeding and underfeding studies so I think I'm not that far off target. I do remember that Lyle said that liver proteins are the most volatile, so the muscle protein accretion is probably lower than the computed value, thus LBM gain should not be as high as shown in the graph.

[1] Glycogen storage capacity and de novo lipogenesis during massive carbohydrate overfeeding in man, Acheson KJ et al
[2] Protein Turnover and Thermogenesis in Response to High-Protein and High-Carbohydrate Feeding in Men, Robinson et al
[3] Changes in macronutrient balance during over- and underfeeding assessed by 12-d continuous whole-body calorimetry, Jebb et al
[4] Composition of Weight Lost during Short-Term Weight Reduction, Yang et al
 
2008-09-09:

Weight: 71,9 kg (158,2 lbs) (+1,6 kg [3,5 lbs] from yesterday) (+2,4 kg [5,3 lbs] from start, 20 days ago)

Routine: Recovery

Target kcal: 1616 kcal (after subtracting TEM: 14,2% from 1882 kcals) (-1290 kcal)

Macros: 39% (133g) P; 30% (115g) C; 31% (53g) F (after subtracting TEM)
 
2008-09-10:

Weight: 71,1 kg (156,4 lbs) (-0,8 kg [-1,8 lbs] from yesterday) (+1,6 kg [3,5 lbs] from start, 21 days ago)

Routine: HST 10s routine B (Rows, Bench, Squats, Press, Curls, Chrunches, Wrist extensions)

Target kcal: 3476 kcal (after subtracting TEM: 13,9% from 4038 kcals) (+454 kcal)

Macros: 34% (250g) P; 50% (417g) C; 16% (58g) F (after subtracting TEM)

Graph (updated):
2008-09-10.jpg
 
Minime, I'm using Excel in the Office 2007 suite. Just playing around, exploring what it can do.

I will take a look at your ideas as soon as I can.
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Well, gotta run off to my next hour of herding students in the complexities of, guess what, ...Excel.
 
Oh my goodness! A customized graph of your LBM progress. Before too long I am going to need a lab coat and PHD just to follow along! Nice graph there nkl. Looks like you are headed in the direction of exceding your estimated gains. Sweet!
 
<div>
(Wildman @ Sep. 10 2008,6:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Oh my goodness! A customized graph of your LBM progress. Before too long I am going to need a lab coat and PHD just to follow along! Nice graph there nkl. Looks like you are headed in the direction of exceding your estimated gains. Sweet!</div>
...If I'm so lucky...  
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It is only an estimate, based on some assumptions, but should reflect reality somewhat. I don't really know. It could be less. Only time will tell.

Your friendly labcoat, without a PHD,
nkl
 
2008-09-11:

Weight: 71,9 kg (158,2 lbs) (+0,8 kg [1,8 lbs] from yesterday) (+2,4 kg [5,3 lbs] from start, 22 days ago)

Routine: Recovery

Target kcal: 1538 kcal (after subtracting TEM: 15,1% from 1812 kcals) (-1199 kcal)

Macros: 44% (143g) P; 26% (96g) C; 30% (49g) F (after subtracting TEM)
 
2008-09-12:

Weight: 71,3 kg (156,9 lbs) (-0,6 kg [-1,3 lbs] from yesterday) (+1,8 kg [4,0 lbs] from start, 23 days ago)

Routine: Recovery (I don't have time to visit the gym today - I'll try tomorrow)

Target kcal: 2227 kcal (after subtracting TEM: 13,6% from 2578 kcals) (-510 kcal)

Macros: 35% (165g) P; 38% (202g) C; 27% (64g) F (after subtracting TEM)

Graph:
2008-09-12.jpg
 
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