Partial Reps

R

Rakko

New Member
I have 3 and a half weeks left of my first HST cycle. I was thinking about creating a partials only cycle for my 3rd or 4th cycle. I have heard partial reps can put on some serious mass because of the amount of weight that one can manage when performing partial only, but I'm not all too sure about this.
Would the lack of the whole ROM have an impact in the microtrauma degree? Any other words, I'm afraid that partials might not cause enough microtrauma. I really wish I could get some advice, maybe Bryan, or blade could shed some light on this one for me too?
Happy HSTing
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Partials are a throwback from strength training. People would use partials to grow accustomed to feeling heavier weight loads. They would also use partials for fixing sticking points.

The problem with most people's application of partial rang of motion reps for bodybuilding is that they train in the wrong end of the range of motion.

For hypertrophy, rather than benching with safety bars doing only the last 3-4 inches of the rep, one should train from the chest up to about 6-12 inches off the chest. In other words, train the muscle in the most stretched position.

Now, this pretty much goes against using "heavier weight". Rather than an ego trip from doing partial squats at the top with a buch of weight, one will find themselves only going half way up from the bottom and then going back down with far less weight than they have told their buddies they use.

Again, this is where bodybuilding differs from power lifting or any of the other strength sports. Bodybuilding is more of a craft, using the weight as a tool to get the body to change in such a way that it wouldn't normally do. Powerlifting is about performance and moving as much weight as you can within a narrow set of rules.

I didn't get a lot of sleep last night and my train of thought seems to be derailing so I'll quit now.
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Sometimes partials can be useful if you want to focus on one joint. Like in overhead presses, you may choose to lift the bar only slightly above your head, since after this point triceps work more than deltoids (watch Lou Ferigno's military presses in "Pumping Iron").

Since strength training is related to hypertrophy, I'm sure that one could design a program that incorporates partials in a way that improves his hypertrophy-focused training. But this is another, vast subject.
 
how about using partials in the 5 s only to movements having stretched position?

for chest bench press from the bottom 6-12 inches

or dips in the stetched position

incline db curls
chins up

shrugs

anyone using partials in these movements?any views ?


for delts as in behind the neck do you use the bottom position and raise it a few inches so as to get the advantage of the stretch?

or in a recent thread i see that restless am not sure saying for behind the neck to work side delts lower a few inches from top position?
 
I disagree with Brian on this one. The reason you can lift so much more weight near the start point of your exercise is because of the physics of the joint movement and the angle of the muscle and tendon during a lift. If you put enough stress on it, your going to create the microtrauma nessesary for growth. And you can put a whole lot more stress on the tendons and muscles using strongest range partials. And it's safer on your joints, muscles and tendons when you stress them in their optimum strength position.

Before anyone should knock strongest range partials, they should try them. And give them a good month or two of serious work before they decide if they're benificial or not. I'm here to say they've worked for me to break strength plateau's cause I have given them an honest amount of time & effort.

When you hit a full range of motion strength plateau, try doing an honest month of very heavy strongest range partials for that exercise and then see if your full range strength hasn't drastically increased.

Then you can judge partial reps.

Some people will say it's all in your head. It's not. I don't care how many plates are on a bar. I've got a spotter to help me if I need it. There's no mental barrier for me when I've only got 20 or 30 more pounds on a bar than I know I can handle. What's to be scared of? You know your spotter can easily make up that difference if needed. All you the lifter has to worry about is pushing or pulling as hard as you can.

My 2 cents,
RedDelPaPa
 
One more thing.

You can be fairly muscular without being real strong. But you can't be strong without being muscular. I've seen pretty muscular guys who can't bench press 185lbs. But I've never seen anyone benching 300+ lbs who didn't have stout pecs. Make sense? Focus on getting strong. It's much easier to measure, and you can see it from month to month. Plus it applies more to daily life. Unlike trying to tape yourself or starring in the mirror for hours. To many variables. If your getting stronger, your getting bigger. Size will come.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RedDelPaPa @ April 30 2005,4:59)]Focus on getting strong. It's much easier to measure, and you can see it from month to month. Plus it applies more to daily life. Unlike trying to tape yourself or starring in the mirror for hours. To many variables. If your getting stronger, your getting bigger. Size will come.
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That's not really the focus of HST, considering the "hypertrophy specific" portion of the acronym. We want to focus on the size aspect primarily, strength gains being largely a side effect of increasing size.
 
Um, I guess you missed it, but this forum is about Hypertrophy Specific Training, HST, so everything you've said about strength is missing the point.

Also, strongest range partials are often at the end of the movement, not the beginning: Squats, deads, bench, basically any pressing or straightening movement. Unless you consider the extended position the starting position...

One more thing, you can be strong without being that muscular, through neurological adaption, so you're just plain wrong on that one.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dood @ April 30 2005,5:18)]Um, I guess you missed it, but this forum is about Hypertrophy Specific Training, HST, so everything you've said about strength is missing the point.
Also, strongest range partials are often at the end of the movement, not the beginning: Squats, deads, bench, basically any pressing or straightening movement. Unless you consider the extended position the starting position...
One more thing, you can be strong without being that muscular, through neurological adaption, so you're just plain wrong on that one.
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Oh?

Show me someone who is "strong". Not strong for his/her size, but strong compared to any human, that isn't muscular?

Now you know you can have someone who maxes at 300 in the bench, and another guy who maxes at 300 in the bench, and they both move the weight the exact same distance, and one guy can have a bigger chest than the other. This is due to the attachment point on the bones. The guy with the leverage disadvantage will likely have the bigger chest, but they will both have stout pecs at that weight capability. Feel free to prove me wrong if you think you can.

Strongest Range Partials isn't specific to a start or end point of a particular exercise. It means the strongest part of the movement. Where the muscles & tendon angles are at their prime spot. I'm sure you could figure those out in 1 rep for every exercise you do.

I know it's hypertrophy specific, but I'm bringing this up because there is only so much you can do to get bigger without getting stronger. Which isn't very much. So, here we are. In this debate. :-)

Again though, I want to stress, nobody knock SRP's until you give them an honest effort.

Thanks,
Red
 
One last thing. Just so everyone knows where I stand. The original poster asked about the usage of partial reps, and Brian attempted to shoot them down in his reply. Because he is the icon behind HST, anyone who reads his reply is very likely to believe his post.

I agree with most everything else he says, but in this case, I strongly feel he is wrong. And I wanted to be sure anyone who reads this post is getting a second opinion. Brian didn't mention any experiences with partials. I do have experience with partials, and I stand behind them. I know they work for me.

And I also disagree with his favoring of weak range partials. Those, I feel, really are pointless. When doing Strong Range Partials vs. Weak Range Partials, I think you will find that doing Strong Range partials will make your strong range stronger, and your weak range stronger. And weak range partials will only slightly make your weak range stronger, and will have no affect on your strong range. So there is never any reason to do weak range partials in favor of strong range partials. It's like favoring isolation movements over compound movements for strength and mass.

Again, my 2 cents. :-)

Red
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RedDelPaPa @ April 30 2005,5:57)]And I also disagree with his favoring of weak range partials. Those, I feel, really are pointless. When doing Strong Range Partials vs. Weak Range Partials, I think you will find that doing Strong Range partials will make your strong range stronger, and your weak range stronger. And weak range partials will only slightly make your weak range stronger, and will have no affect on your strong range. So there is never any reason to do weak range partials in favor of strong range partials.
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That suggests that you don't completely grasp the science behind hypertrophy verses strength.
Weak range, or stretch point partials work because they put the muscle under load in a stretched position, which stresses the sarcolemma more and causes microtrauma. Strong range partials in pressing movements do not do this.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RedDelPaPa @ April 30 2005,5:43)]Show me someone who is "strong". Not strong for his/her size, but strong compared to any human, that isn't muscular?
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How about this guy?
http://www.criticalbench.com/Ed-Coan.htm

"at 198lbs Coan squatted and pulled 863-pounds while bench-pressing slightly over 500-pounds."

There are lots of people at 198, and up, and they can't do that. He is strong way beyond his size. Muscle mass does not always equal strength, and you can be strong without excessive muscle mass.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dood @ April 30 2005,6:50)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RedDelPaPa @ April 30 2005,5:57)]And I also disagree with his favoring of weak range partials. Those, I feel, really are pointless. When doing Strong Range Partials vs. Weak Range Partials, I think you will find that doing Strong Range partials will make your strong range stronger, and your weak range stronger. And weak range partials will only slightly make your weak range stronger, and will have no affect on your strong range. So there is never any reason to do weak range partials in favor of strong range partials.
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That suggests that you don't completely grasp the science behind hypertrophy verses strength.
Weak range, or stretch point partials work because they put the muscle under load in a stretched position, which stresses the sarcolemma more and causes microtrauma. Strong range partials in pressing movements do not do this.
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When you strong range partial 100+lbs or more than you can normally handle in a full range movement, you get plenty of microtruama. Using the weak range partial may get you the desired microtrauma with the least amount of absolute resistance. But what's the point of that when you can get the microtrauma, and get stronger too?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dood @ April 30 2005,7:07)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RedDelPaPa @ April 30 2005,5:43)]Show me someone who is "strong". Not strong for his/her size, but strong compared to any human, that isn't muscular?
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How about this guy?
http://www.criticalbench.com/Ed-Coan.htm
"at 198lbs Coan squatted and pulled 863-pounds while bench-pressing slightly over 500-pounds."
There are lots of people at 198, and up, and they can't do that. He is strong way beyond his size. Muscle mass does not always equal strength, and you can be strong without excessive muscle mass.
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Are you saying Ed isn't built? Look at the guy. His neck is as big around as a tree trunk. Plus he's 5' nothing. At 198lbs, that's still a big guy. He may not be gargantuan, but nobody is that isn't shooting the juice.
 
He's 5'6". How about this? When he was younger:
<<ASL: Do you remember your lifts?
Ed Coan: Yeah. I do. 485 squat. 295 bench. 495 deadlift.
ASL: At what bodyweight?
Ed Coan: Low 150s.>>

http://www.mcshane-enterprises.com/ASL/coaninterview.html

A 5'6" 150 lb guy is not big, but look at those numbers!
However, I'm obviously not going to convince you of anything.
 
He's still muscular though. Always has been. Even at 150. And being short, he has leverage on his side. Which will boost his numbers.

I know what your trying to say, and all I'm saying is why piss around using techniques that allow you to lift minimal loads to gain size, when you could hoist big weights and gain both size and strength?

I like the HST principles. They do work. I can vouch for them too. But I prefer to lift heavier weights to gain both size and strength. I don't like the idea of wasting time working out at 75% effort. I prefer to workout at full tilt, less frequently if need be to recover between workouts.

Again, the original post was about the usage of partial reps. And I stepped in to say, do them. They do serve a real purpose, and they do work.

Red
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I know what your trying to say, and all I'm saying is why piss around using techniques that allow you to lift minimal loads to gain size, when you could hoist big weights and gain both size and strength?
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Because of RBE you can get so much "bang for your buck", hypertrophy-wise, from any any given weight load. The heavier the weight, the more this bang will be, but it is still limited.

So why use lower weights? Because, given SD, you can get a bigger bang from a broader range of weights. You don't have to be working at your max xRM to grow. Heavier weights are incorporated into HST, but not used initially because they aren't required for growth.
 
It seems to me that for pull downs and rows this debate is irrelevant as the most stretched part of the movement coincides with the part of the movement where you are strongest...therefore partials could be beneficial? For presses etc obviously the debate is relevant but I'm assuming all would agree that partials for these movements could be beneficial post 5s?
 
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