R.I.P. HST

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(electric @ Feb. 01 2010,7:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Jan. 28 2010,3:47)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Bryan I don't even know if this is possible with your schedule (you sound very busy).

It would be awesome if you started your own training log on here.

I know I would tune it everyday to check it out....and I know lots of others would to.

Just a thought...
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Joe, that is a fantastic idea! I'd follow it with interest.
Considering Bryan is a veteran lifter with a life, like many of the folks here, it would be massively insightful to see how he applies all his hypertrophy knowledge into his training.</div>
Are you sure? I think it would get kind of boring for people...I mean, I've been lifting for over 30 years now, I'm 40 years old, and my gains are very slow. Usually people like to read, &quot;I put 20 pounds on my bench today!&quot; or, &quot;I got up this morning and BAM! I was totally ripped!&quot;. I'm afraid my progress is in a more uh...let's just say that my body has matured quite a bit since my 20s.
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I dunno Bryan. I think a lot of folks are just interested in seeing how HST principles are applied by people with differing training goals rather than expecting to be wowed or impressed by constant PRs. I've learnt a lot from reading how well-seasoned lifters perform certain movements for better effect. Everyone seems to have their own favourite way of doing things.

Occasionally, someone will set a challenge in their log or do something a little differently, which makes you want to go and try it. Finding ways to work around injury is another common problem, esp. for those of us who are no longer as bouncy and resilient as we once were. ;)

Keeping a log can help show those who are new to the lifting game that there really aren't any 'secret' methods out there that will work better than what is to be found here. The best results come from a combination of sound training principles and sensible programming, hard work, consistency, and a good diet (ie. eating to achieve your specific goals). Time will do the rest.

Of course, logging takes time - probably our most previous commodity. How about an occasional post to a log when you feel you did something a little differently that day or if you learned something interesting that others might benefit from? I'd certainly take the time to read it.
 
40 years old? Kids! Buwuhahaha!

I'd be interested. And, for the record, I'm still doing HST/Max Stim. BUT, this cycle I'm on now has been by best gains so far. The difference is that I am doing a 1 on then 3 off.

I'll be 51 in May. Since starting HST in Sept 08, I have gained 21 pounds. 5 of it I put on the past 6 weeks or so...

Happy lifting...
 
I'll just add my portion and say that I often stop in to read this site. It has been an encouragement for me ever since I discovered it. That has held true even during this past year when I haven't been able to keep up my own training.

The atmosphere of respect here and the combined knowledge and experience of the contributors makes this place nearly unique. Other BB boards are filled with brainless Bubbas spouting nonsense and vitriol. Here I am impressed (and refreshed).
 
I'd like to ditto what TunnelRat just said, with the exception that I think this site IS unique. It is shocking and disappointing to see (read) how people treat each other on other BB boards.
 
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(Bryan Haycock @ Feb. 01 2010,8:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(electric @ Feb. 01 2010,7:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Jan. 28 2010,3:47)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Bryan I don't even know if this is possible with your schedule (you sound very busy).

It would be awesome if you started your own training log on here.

I know I would tune it everyday to check it out....and I know lots of others would to.

Just a thought...
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Joe, that is a fantastic idea! I'd follow it with interest.
Considering Bryan is a veteran lifter with a life, like many of the folks here, it would be massively insightful to see how he applies all his hypertrophy knowledge into his training.</div>
Are you sure? I think it would get kind of boring for people...I mean, I've been lifting for over 30 years now, I'm 40 years old, and my gains are very slow. Usually people like to read, &quot;I put 20 pounds on my bench today!&quot; or, &quot;I got up this morning and BAM! I was totally ripped!&quot;. I'm afraid my progress is in a more uh...let's just say that my body has matured quite a bit since my 20s.  
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Everybody is interested Bryan!

Do it!!!
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That's what happens when you have kids. They bring home evry germ known to man.
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But don't worry Bryan, I found your 5 pounds down here in Aruba. I'll send them back when I get home.
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(Bryan Haycock @ Feb. 10 2010,6:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, I spent the last 6 days with Streptococcal pharyngitis and lost 5 pounds.  
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Not much progress there.</div>
Hopefully that's mostly 5lb of fluid. Sore throats suck. If you had the one where you feel like you've been gargling with shards of glass, you have my sympathy. GWS.
 
Bryan,

Do you believe there is ever a point in an advanced lifter training that they eventually outgrow the 6 day upper / lower split of HST?

I am assusiming you think NO because you personally use it?
 
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(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 12 2010,1:11)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Bryan,

Do you believe there is ever a point in an advanced lifter training that they eventually outgrow the 6 day upper / lower split of HST?

I am assusiming you think NO because you personally use it?</div>
What do you mean by &quot;out grow&quot;? Do you mean that you can't get in enough volume training each body part 3/week if you're advanced? Just checking before I answer.
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(Bryan Haycock @ Feb. 12 2010,4:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 12 2010,1:11)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Bryan,

Do you believe there is ever a point in an advanced lifter training that they eventually outgrow the 6 day upper / lower split of HST?

I am assusiming you think NO because you personally use it?</div>
What do you mean by &quot;out grow&quot;? Do you mean that you can't get in enough volume training each body part 3/week if you're advanced? Just checking before I answer.
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Correct,

I have read over at some of the other forums...that some believe that you can't give a muscle enough volume / work to grow.

In other words once you get to and advance stage its impossible to bring EVER muscle group up at once.
Its just to much work they are saying.

So for example during a 10's phase of hst upper body day...some say that if you do the program as it is written then its not enough volume / work.

And if you truely lift heavy enough to grow without the volume then it too much WORK...for the entire upperbody.

So lets say you kept volume low say 30 reps...then you have to lift very heavy to grow as and advance lifter.

If you do that for chest / back / shoulders (and upper day) it may be very hard to recover from on 3 days a week.

So the compromise is to go to less frequency with slightly more work / volume. Or go to a specialization routine and rotate bodyparts every 6-8 weeks. The problem with that is YOU better be serious about lifting. Like a lot of people most of us are wanting to be as efficient as possible and still grow with limited workouts that fit our lifestyle.

I personally like 3 days a week for growth (if its still possible at this point in my lifting career because of life / career .
 
Yeah, I wonder too. I stalled out in gains after 7 cycles of HST, which sent me spiraling into other programs, but anything will have a limit for it's efficacy after a while. The GST program I'm doing now is a combination of HST principles and powerlifting, so I'm having great fun with it.
So far.
 
HST is not a program but a set of principles to be applied to lifting weights. I don't think anyone can &quot;stall out&quot; if they are incorporating different ways of lifting weights into their programs unless they are nearing their drug free maximum potential. Then, you have to specialize to max out each separate muscle. However, even then the general principles of HST would still apply.
 
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(Old and Grey @ Feb. 13 2010,12:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">HST is not a program but a set of principles to be applied to lifting weights. I don't think anyone can &quot;stall out&quot; if they are incorporating different ways of lifting weights into their programs unless they are nearing their drug free maximum potential. Then, you have to specialize to max out each separate muscle. However, even then the general principles of HST would still apply.</div>
Which would lead me to believe that you have to get away from fullbody workouts.

Because if you are going to specialize then you have to pick 1 or at best 2 bodyparts and specialize and then train other muscle groups at maintenance.

That being said since Bryan is a very big Natural trainee I am wondering if you he used typical hst workouts to get that big wether it was 3 days a week or 6 days upper lower........OR if he specialized with increase work for certain muscle groups.

For example: Lets say a guys starts trainigh HST and has never lifted before once he gets close to his genetic potetial is training full body going to limit any further growth or are the limits more genetic...and not the training.

Obviously from my readings a LOT of experts think you get away from fullbody workouts...but I am interested to see what Bryan thinks.
 
Wow, reaching &quot;genetic&quot; or maximum &quot;drug free potential&quot;? It seems to me like someone would have to be strong as a friggin ox, or huge as a house once they got there! How would we know if we got to that stage?

I've put on 20 pounds since Sept 2008. I couldn't put on ONE pound for years before that! I thought I had reached my maximum worthless potential back then! haha

I'll be 51 in May and weigh 220, I still feel like a skinny wimp. I assume if I weighed in at 270, I'd still feel the same way!

But, seriously, how would we know that we maxed out and should now hang up the weights? At what point would we be TRULY satisfied? For me, I'll be satisfied when I have the body of an adonis. Actually, I'd settle for one like &quot;The Rock&quot;.

But, until then, how will I know if I hit the permanent wall and need to give up HST proper, Max-Stim, and start &quot;specializing&quot;. Grrrrrrrr!
 
I think Old and Grey is correct: the HST principles should still apply regardless of training level.  A big factor in how often one trains is the level of stress on the body and our ability to recover, especially in the CNS deparment.  Failure training is not the only way to wear out the CNS, lots of very heavy sets can do it too.  And then, there's the joint wear issue to consider.

But at the root of all this (I think) is the notion that we have to keep pouring on the volume in order to grow.  I'm not so sure we have to keep adding volume.  I know it's pure anecdote, but I have encountered quite a few very big guys that still use HIT--minimal volume, every 3-4 days, but very heavy weights.  For me, this seems to jive well with Bryan's point that tension on the muscle is the primary stimulus for growth.
 
Yes HST is a set of principals but REALITY is that HST is typically thought of as a 3 day a week full body routine.

If it is NOT thought of that way then we might as well call Lyles Macdonalds bulking routine HST, or Myo-reps HST...or DC training HST.

All these programs follow the MAJOR and EFFECTIVE principals of hypertrophy and all of these routines used progressive overload, TUT, and other parameters to be very effecitive.

It seems to be the norm that most experts agree at some point in time you have to Specialize your training.


However I was curious to know if Bryan has deviated from his training of HST over the years or if he has stuck to the 6 day a week template.

If he has always stuck the HST 3 or 6 day a week template that would prove to be VERY interesting!!!
 
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(MasterCFI @ Feb. 13 2010,7:09)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Wow, reaching &quot;genetic&quot; or maximum &quot;drug free potential&quot;? It seems to me like someone would have to be strong as a friggin ox, or huge as a house once they got there! How would we know if we got to that stage?</div>
For me, it's looking at year after year of bulking pics and noticing that I'd stopped growing. For me to gain weight without just getting fat, it takes more specialized training without linear progression. And it would take ultimate nutrition, massive incentive, and hopefully, elimination of detracting factors...like working.
It's why I decided to persue strength for a while. True genetic potential would occur to someone living in a lab perhaps, with dietitians and cooks, trainers and specialized equipment.
 
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