R.I.P. HST
- Thread starter Old and Grey
- Start date
LOL, I typically find that my 5 rep max is about 50% higher than my 15 rep max. That puts me equal in total weight lifted at 2 sets. However, everyone is different and I would say that if the numbers you used are representative of someone's actuality, then naturally 3 sets would be required. One's make up of slow twitch vs fast twitch fibers in any given muscle will set built in limits that differ from person - person and even muscle - muscle in the same person.
CFI, I have extended the 5's to as much as 6 weeks long with no aches or pains. Again, everyone is different and you have to work within your tolerance ranges. What would work for Arnold, would putme in the hospital.:laugh:
CFI, I have extended the 5's to as much as 6 weeks long with no aches or pains. Again, everyone is different and you have to work within your tolerance ranges. What would work for Arnold, would putme in the hospital.:laugh:
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Hey guys during a week of 10's...how many total reps do you normally shoot for?
I am guessing more of the advanced guys shoot for 30 reps?
I am guessing more of the advanced guys shoot for 30 reps?
O&G: It is always interesting to me to see how different we all are in terms of rep count with a particular %age of 1RM. I find that my 15RM is close to 75% of my 1RM for squats, deads and bench but it's closer to 70% for overhead press.
Matt Brzycki (in his book A Practical Approach To Strength Training) has a formula for estimating reps at a certain %age of 1RM. (I think there are several other calculations for this sort of thing too.) His numbers come out at ~ 70% 1RM for a 12RM and 75% 1RM for a 10RM. These may be closer to the norm. My 10RM is closer to 80% 1RM. It is often very difficult to try to estimate higher rep range %ages because they vary so much from individual to individual; a couple of seconds rest between reps at these lighter loads can reduce fatigue build up enough to allow a few more reps to be ground out.
I remember Jules (AKA Vicious) had a list of the ratio of fibre types for each muscle group. I think it was included in his 'Pimping My HST' ebook. I suspect that the ratios vary quite widely and explain why your 15RM with 50% 1RM is as hard for you as my 15RM is with 75% 1RM. I'm pretty sure creatine makes a difference to these higher rep sets too so that might account for some of the variation.
Matt Brzycki (in his book A Practical Approach To Strength Training) has a formula for estimating reps at a certain %age of 1RM. (I think there are several other calculations for this sort of thing too.) His numbers come out at ~ 70% 1RM for a 12RM and 75% 1RM for a 10RM. These may be closer to the norm. My 10RM is closer to 80% 1RM. It is often very difficult to try to estimate higher rep range %ages because they vary so much from individual to individual; a couple of seconds rest between reps at these lighter loads can reduce fatigue build up enough to allow a few more reps to be ground out.
I remember Jules (AKA Vicious) had a list of the ratio of fibre types for each muscle group. I think it was included in his 'Pimping My HST' ebook. I suspect that the ratios vary quite widely and explain why your 15RM with 50% 1RM is as hard for you as my 15RM is with 75% 1RM. I'm pretty sure creatine makes a difference to these higher rep sets too so that might account for some of the variation.
<div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 23 2010,4:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey guys during a week of 10's...how many total reps do you normally shoot for?
I am guessing more of the advanced guys shoot for 30 reps?</div>
For 10s, if I was doing a regular HST cycle then I'd go for anything between 50 and 90 total reps per week for my main compounds, doing 2-3 x 10 per session.
If I was squatting 3 x weekly, I'd probably end up doing 2-3 x 10 each session. I might drop a few reps on the 2nd and 3rd sets across if the first set had taken a lot of life out of me (typically for RM workouts).
If I was doing different exercises each session then I would still aim to keep to 2-3 sets for each movement. Eg. for leg work I might do front squats for 2-3 x 10 on Monday, 2-3 x 10 for SLDLs on Wednesday, and on Friday, 2-3 x 10 for back squats.
In all this, I'd keep track of RPE for each work set to help gauge when I'd done enough for that session.
As a comparison, when I did the Smolov Squat base cycle I was doing 4 x 9, 5 x 7, 7 x 5 and 10 x 3 each week. That's a total of 136 reps/week (~34 reps/session) with loads that are for the most part greater than 75-80% 1RM. The cycle is only 3 weeks long but it was still very draining and had me close to injury on a few occasions. It certainly drives adaptation but I don't think it was the most effective way for me to train legs. I can definitely use lower volume and still get equally good results, and, at the same time, reduce the chance of injury.
(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 23 2010,4:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey guys during a week of 10's...how many total reps do you normally shoot for?
I am guessing more of the advanced guys shoot for 30 reps?</div>
For 10s, if I was doing a regular HST cycle then I'd go for anything between 50 and 90 total reps per week for my main compounds, doing 2-3 x 10 per session.
If I was squatting 3 x weekly, I'd probably end up doing 2-3 x 10 each session. I might drop a few reps on the 2nd and 3rd sets across if the first set had taken a lot of life out of me (typically for RM workouts).
If I was doing different exercises each session then I would still aim to keep to 2-3 sets for each movement. Eg. for leg work I might do front squats for 2-3 x 10 on Monday, 2-3 x 10 for SLDLs on Wednesday, and on Friday, 2-3 x 10 for back squats.
In all this, I'd keep track of RPE for each work set to help gauge when I'd done enough for that session.
As a comparison, when I did the Smolov Squat base cycle I was doing 4 x 9, 5 x 7, 7 x 5 and 10 x 3 each week. That's a total of 136 reps/week (~34 reps/session) with loads that are for the most part greater than 75-80% 1RM. The cycle is only 3 weeks long but it was still very draining and had me close to injury on a few occasions. It certainly drives adaptation but I don't think it was the most effective way for me to train legs. I can definitely use lower volume and still get equally good results, and, at the same time, reduce the chance of injury.
LOL, I don't really know what my %'s of my 1 RM's are as I never max out to avoid a possible injury. What I meant was that I typically find that my 5 RM is 50% higher (more weight) than my 15 RM. For instance, if I use 75 pounds dumbells for a flat BP, it usually works out that I can use about 115 to 120 pound dumbells for my for 5 RM's. I also have to say that that holds true for my upper body but I rarely go below below 12 reps on legs so I am not sure if that same relationship would hold true there or not.
Joe, on 10 reps, I currently shoot for 20 to 25 total reps per workout session.
Joe, on 10 reps, I currently shoot for 20 to 25 total reps per workout session.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Thanks,
Lol and O&G.
I am currently fixing to start a very low volume program JUST to have some fun with lifting again.
I like what old and gray said earlier in some posts about how when he leaves the gym he feels great.
To be honest I normally feel like puking...so I am most likely pushing myself too hard with to much work.
Lol and O&G.
I am currently fixing to start a very low volume program JUST to have some fun with lifting again.
I like what old and gray said earlier in some posts about how when he leaves the gym he feels great.
To be honest I normally feel like puking...so I am most likely pushing myself too hard with to much work.
<div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 23 2010,3:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks,
Lol and O&G.
I am currently fixing to start a very low volume program JUST to have some fun with lifting again.
I like what old and gray said earlier in some posts about how when he leaves the gym he feels great.
To be honest I normally feel like puking...so I am most likely pushing myself too hard with to much work.</div>
I second this. I've also been using low volume so as to enjoy lifting again, as well as remain motivated at all. Too many other stresses in life right now . . .
(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 23 2010,3:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks,
Lol and O&G.
I am currently fixing to start a very low volume program JUST to have some fun with lifting again.
I like what old and gray said earlier in some posts about how when he leaves the gym he feels great.
To be honest I normally feel like puking...so I am most likely pushing myself too hard with to much work.</div>
I second this. I've also been using low volume so as to enjoy lifting again, as well as remain motivated at all. Too many other stresses in life right now . . .
I
imported_electric
Guest
CFI: RPE. RPE is rate of perceived exertion. You measure it based on the effort you perceive you are doing. Usual usage is 8 for 2 more reps in the tank, 9 for 1 more rep, 9.5 for 0 reps left and 10 for a failure. Some people use 10 for 0 reps left and failure is out of the scale. In the end it is basically a way of putting a number to the perceived difficulty in a given set so that you can compare sets. A 5 rep set with X weight @ a RPE of 8 means a challenging but relatively easy set. The same set @ a RPE of 10 means a very difficult and grindy set or a failed set. If you log that information along the number of reps and weight of a set you can tell if, for example, the same number of reps and weight is getting increasingly more difficult and that is a hint of overtraining.
MasterCFI,
Further to what electric has already posted, Mike Tuchscherer has some very helpful advice on how to use RPE in your training. Here's an excerpt from his RTS Manual with some pertinent stuff on RPE:
http://www.reactivetrainingsystems.com/article....apter-2
This might be useful to you as well:
http://www.reactivetrainingsystems.com/article....e-chart
I use RPE 8.5 to mean 2 reps left and RPE 8 to mean 3, possibly 4 reps left in the tank. For me, RPE 10 always indicates a max effort rep. It might not be grindy but it will be very hard and I'll know that I would fail if I tried a second rep.
Further to what electric has already posted, Mike Tuchscherer has some very helpful advice on how to use RPE in your training. Here's an excerpt from his RTS Manual with some pertinent stuff on RPE:
http://www.reactivetrainingsystems.com/article....apter-2
This might be useful to you as well:
http://www.reactivetrainingsystems.com/article....e-chart
I use RPE 8.5 to mean 2 reps left and RPE 8 to mean 3, possibly 4 reps left in the tank. For me, RPE 10 always indicates a max effort rep. It might not be grindy but it will be very hard and I'll know that I would fail if I tried a second rep.
I
imported_electric
Guest
With one more variable and another acronym you might at least confuse your muscles into growing
<div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 23 2010,9:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey guys during a week of 10's...how many total reps do you normally shoot for?
I am guessing more of the advanced guys shoot for 30 reps?</div>
I'll do 3x10 of my primary exercise for a given muscle and then maybe at 2 more of an auxiliary exercise. For example, for chest I would do 3x10 of incline press and then add a couple sets of dips to finish things off. That puts me about 50 reps per muscle per workout.
Keep in mind that I try to use big compounds as much as possible to limit the total number of exercises per workout.
(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 23 2010,9:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey guys during a week of 10's...how many total reps do you normally shoot for?
I am guessing more of the advanced guys shoot for 30 reps?</div>
I'll do 3x10 of my primary exercise for a given muscle and then maybe at 2 more of an auxiliary exercise. For example, for chest I would do 3x10 of incline press and then add a couple sets of dips to finish things off. That puts me about 50 reps per muscle per workout.
Keep in mind that I try to use big compounds as much as possible to limit the total number of exercises per workout.
<div>
(Lol @ Feb. 23 2010,11:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">... (I think there are several other calculations for this sort of thing too.)...</div>
Here is a calculator that you can use here:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/calculator
This calculator uses the Brzycki, Epley, and Lander equations.
(Lol @ Feb. 23 2010,11:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">... (I think there are several other calculations for this sort of thing too.)...</div>
Here is a calculator that you can use here:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/calculator
This calculator uses the Brzycki, Epley, and Lander equations.
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(MasterCFI @ Feb. 22 2010,1:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">However, this last cycle was max stim and I didn't hurt anything at all, doing a 1 on and 2 or 3 off, total body. I found that MORE rest for me gave me my best gains with NO injuries.</div>
I very much appreciate the M-time method I learned from Max-Stim. This time I'm sort of fooling around in the gym, increasing the weight each w/o, but doing sets of 5s and 3s. It's hard for me to get used to sitting on my butt resting between sets -- I've gotten so used to rolling out 20 max stim reps.
I figure that Max-Stim may be the most practical application of HST principles for me, given that I'm old and beat up.
(MasterCFI @ Feb. 22 2010,1:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">However, this last cycle was max stim and I didn't hurt anything at all, doing a 1 on and 2 or 3 off, total body. I found that MORE rest for me gave me my best gains with NO injuries.</div>
I very much appreciate the M-time method I learned from Max-Stim. This time I'm sort of fooling around in the gym, increasing the weight each w/o, but doing sets of 5s and 3s. It's hard for me to get used to sitting on my butt resting between sets -- I've gotten so used to rolling out 20 max stim reps.
I figure that Max-Stim may be the most practical application of HST principles for me, given that I'm old and beat up.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
<div>
(Bryan Haycock @ Feb. 24 2010,5:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That puts me about 50 reps per muscle per workout.
Keep in mind that I try to use big compounds as much as possible to limit the total number of exercises per workout.</div>
I could be wrong but I think I remember MikeyNov saying he had toyed with the thought of 50 reps for a HST cycle?
That was a couple years ago???
Mikey am I remembering right
(Bryan Haycock @ Feb. 24 2010,5:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That puts me about 50 reps per muscle per workout.
Keep in mind that I try to use big compounds as much as possible to limit the total number of exercises per workout.</div>
I could be wrong but I think I remember MikeyNov saying he had toyed with the thought of 50 reps for a HST cycle?
That was a couple years ago???
Mikey am I remembering right
That's 15 sets for one muscle group per week!
That would be a lot of volume for me.
Of course, Bryan is barely out of puberty so youth must play a big part in his recoverability.
That would be a lot of volume for me.
Of course, Bryan is barely out of puberty so youth must play a big part in his recoverability.
<div>
(Bryan Haycock @ Feb. 24 2010,5:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'll do 3x10 of my primary exercise for a given muscle and then maybe at 2 more of an auxiliary exercise. For example, for chest I would do 3x10 of incline press and then add a couple sets of dips to finish things off. That puts me about 50 reps per muscle per workout.</div>
But do you still shoot for 50 reps when you are in your 5s? A few years ago it seems like everyone on this board gravitated towards equal work in each rep range. Since I did NOT get that impression from your original write up I'm curious to know how you approach it now. Thanks, Bryan!
(Bryan Haycock @ Feb. 24 2010,5:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'll do 3x10 of my primary exercise for a given muscle and then maybe at 2 more of an auxiliary exercise. For example, for chest I would do 3x10 of incline press and then add a couple sets of dips to finish things off. That puts me about 50 reps per muscle per workout.</div>
But do you still shoot for 50 reps when you are in your 5s? A few years ago it seems like everyone on this board gravitated towards equal work in each rep range. Since I did NOT get that impression from your original write up I'm curious to know how you approach it now. Thanks, Bryan!