Results so far do not match expectations + training history

[Physick]

Hello everyone,

I've been training on-and-off for about 3 years (I'm now 20). My gains have been atrociously bad, and I think this was mostly because of the fact that I didn't want to eat. I wanted to keep the fat off my abs and face. I wanted 6-8% BF year-round. I tried everything that could possibly be tried. All the different diets; ABCD diet, intermittent fasting, keto-cycling. I also tried various training programs; traditional 5-day split, HIT, UB-LB split, Bill Star's 5x5. Results: yeah I stayed lean, but I gained minimal muscle in the process.

At the end of it all, my stats were the following (seriously):
Height: 6'2'' (188 cm)
Weight: 163 lbs (74 kg)
BF: 6-8%
Bench 1RM: 167 lbs (76 kg)
ATG Squat 1RM: 154 lbs (70 kg)
Deadlift 1RM: 300 lbs (136 kg)
Chest cold: ?
Arms cold: 13.6" (34.5 cm)
Legs cold: 22.6" (57.5 cm)
Vertical leap: 19" (48 cm)

Which is pathetic. Pathetic.
My deadlift is high, because I have a short torso, long limbs (long arms and legs). My fingers are also very long, which all points to the fact that I am a classic ectomorph. Back in high school, I was good at endurance activities, bad at explosive ones (sprinting etc.). This makes me think I have a higher percentage of type I fibers (at least, in my legs) than average.

I now know that I will have to seriously start BULKING to add any muscle. Going up to 20% body fat in the course of the next 6-8 months. I am willing to do it, sacrificing this 'lean' look.

I hadn't trained in 3 months, dropped to 69 kg at 11% BF, arms 12.5" (31.7 cm)and legs 21.9" (55.5 cm). I've since then started HST again, thinking I would regain the mass easily, because of muscle memory. I'm now in the first week of 5's and results have been disappointing. My arms after the first week of 15's blew up from 12.5" to 13.0" (+0.5"), my legs went up from 21.9" to 22.1" (+0.2"). I've gained, over the past 4 weeks, 13 pounds. However, after the first week of 15's, my arms have remained stagnant. They're still 13.0". My legs have continued to grow gradually after the first week of 15's and are now 22.7" (+0.6" from after first week of 15's). Why aren't my arms growing (not even to equal size as before the 3 month quit from training/eating)?

It might have something to do with my current diet, which is the following:
3500-4500 kcals/day (+1000 balance every day)
100 g protein (400 kcal, 10%)
560 g carbs (2250 kcal, 56%)
150 g fat (1350 kcal, 34%)

HST training is 15 - 8 - 5 reps, keeping a constant of 45 reps/week for every exercise (1 set of 15, 2 sets of 8, 3 sets of 5), thus keeping volume (sets x reps i.m.o.) constant. I add 2.5% to weights (load) every training session, rep cadence is concentric as fast as possible, eccentric 2 seconds. Total cycle takes 6 weeks to complete.

Thinking about adding oatmeal and cooked chicken to my diet, raising protein to 150 g.

I'm looking to add 35 lbs to my frame coming 6-8 months. This would have me going from my current weight 165 lbs (75 kg) at 10% BF to 200 lbs (91 kg) at 17% BF (adding 50% muscle, 50% fat). This would mean about 2 lbs of muscle per month, which isn't unrealistic at my horrendous stats (those of a beginner). HOWEVER I suspect my genes (and free test levels maybe, ought to get them checked sometime soon) will hinder this process.
Before summer, I'd cut for 2-2.5 months (bout 10 weeks), supplementing with Ephedrine/Caffeine, doing low carb intermittent fasting with carb-loads, eating about -750 kcals/day to lose about 1.5 lbs weight per week (good ectomorphic cutting abilities), cutting down to 180-185 lbs at 9%.
Of course, this is all hypothetically speaking, but that's what would be happening in the ideal world...

Ideas, anyone on why I'm not making sufficient gains (esp. in my arms?)?
Any general tips?

 

[berserkerzx]

Hello everyone,

I've been training on-and-off for about 3 years (I'm now 20). My gains have been atrociously bad, and I think this was mostly because of the fact that I didn't want to eat. I wanted to keep the fat off my abs and face. I wanted 6-8% BF year-round. I tried everything that could possibly be tried. All the different diets; ABCD diet, intermittent fasting, keto-cycling. I also tried various training programs; traditional 5-day split, HIT, UB-LB split, Bill Star's 5x5. Results: yeah I stayed lean, but I gained minimal muscle in the process.

At the end of it all, my stats were the following (seriously):
Height: 6'2'' (188 cm)
Weight: 163 lbs (74 kg)
BF: 6-8%
Bench 1RM: 167 lbs (76 kg)
Squat 1RM: 154 lbs (70 kg)
Deadlift 1RM: 300 lbs (136 kg)
Chest cold: ?
Arms cold: 13.6" (34.5 cm)
Legs cold: 22.6" (57.5 cm)
Vertical leap: 19" (48 cm)

Which is pathetic. Pathetic.
My deadlift is high, because I have a short torso, long limbs (long arms and legs). My fingers are also very long, which all points to the fact that I am a classic ectomorph. Back in high school, I was good at endurance activities, bad at explosive ones (sprinting etc.). This makes me think I have a higher percentage of type I fibers (at least, in my legs) than average.

I now know that I will have to seriously start BULKING to add any muscle. Going up to 20% body fat in the course of the next 6-8 months. I am willing to do it, sacrificing this 'lean' look.

I hadn't trained in 3 months, dropped to 69 kg at 11% BF, arms 12.5" (31.7 cm)and legs 21.9" (55.5 cm). I've since then started HST again, thinking I would regain the mass easily, because of muscle memory. I'm now in the first week of 5's and results have been disappointing. My arms after the first week of 15's blew up from 12.5" to 13.0" (+0.5"), my legs went up from 21.9" to 22.1" (+0.2"). I've gained, over the past 4 weeks, 13 pounds. However, after the first week of 15's, my arms have remained stagnant. They're still 13.0". My legs have continued to grow gradually after the first week of 15's and are now 22.7" (+0.6" from after first week of 15's). Why aren't my arms growing (not even to equal size as before the 3 month quit from training/eating)?

It might have something to do with my current diet, which is the following:
3500-4500 kcals/day (+1000 balance every day)
100 g protein (400 kcal, 10%)
560 g carbs (2250 kcal, 56%)
150 g fat (1350 kcal, 34%)

My staples are: sweet fruits (about 2000 kcals worth), avocados, raw salmon, raw egg yolks, orange juice.
Yes, that is a 100% raw diet, with some cheating allowed. If I feel like eating a hamburger, I do.
In the past, I've tried a lot of protein amounts, going up to 500 g a day. Of course, then I wasn't in a decent caloric surplus to make that protein count, but still. My reasoning for the 100 g protein, in my current diet, is, that 60 g is the absolute bare minimum requirement for body processes/enzyme formation etc. and, assuming one gains 2 lbs muscle per month, and muscle is 20% actual protein, one would only need: 900grams*0.2(20%)/30days = 6 g of extra protein a day for muscle building purposes. Of course, this has been debated, not being 'optimal', but it's just a thought.

HST training is 15 - 8 - 5 reps, keeping a constant of 45 reps/week for every exercise (1 set of 15, 2 sets of 8, 3 sets of 5), thus keeping volume (sets x reps i.m.o.) constant. I add 2.5% to weights (load) every training session, rep cadence is concentric as fast as possible, eccentric 2 seconds. Total cycle takes 6 weeks to complete.

Thinking about adding oatmeal and cooked chicken to my diet, raising protein to 150 g.

Ideas, anyone on why I'm not making sufficient gains (esp. in my arms?)?
Any general tips?

Hi i am new to HST too, and same age as u, i am a guy who is particular with diet as well, but 1 thing i learn in this forum is, u just gotta eat if u wanna grow bigger, i think counting calories is just too troublesome, so i screw the calories and i eat CLEAN as much as i can and do my best to avoid junk food. Hmm, if i want to be a 200 pounder, then i think i should eat like a 200 pounder, pound for pound. and ur stats is similar to mine too, just that my BF% is higher xD i train 3 times a week, 15s, 10s, and 5s. Well i just started my first 15s and my total rep for the first week(15s) is at a total rep of 60 reps per exercise(15 rep x 4 set) and 2nd week of 15s is 45 reps per exercise (15 reps x 3 set). I increase the weight using a calculator that estimates my % of 15RM and just play by feel. I think you should just stick with ur program and eat more and only time will tell

These are just my 2cents and i hope u can comment on them too

 

[Physick]

Hi i am new to HST too, and same age as u, i am a guy who is particular with diet as well, but 1 thing i learn in this forum is, u just gotta eat if u wanna grow bigger, i think counting calories is just too troublesome, so i screw the calories and i eat CLEAN as much as i can and do my best to avoid junk food. Hmm, if i want to be a 200 pounder, then i think i should eat like a 200 pounder, pound for pound. and ur stats is similar to mine too, just that my BF% is higher xD i train 3 times a week, 15s, 10s, and 5s.

We are very similar then. Yes, I've definitely learned over the years that in order to gain muscle, you just HAVE to gain a sufficient amount of fat as well. It means eating a ****load over your maintenance. I agree on the fact that sometimes, total daily caloric output is hard to assess. It would be best to err on the high side of the caloric surplus then (+1000).

Well i just started my first 15s and my total rep for the first week(15s) is at a total rep of 60 reps per exercise(15 rep x 4 set) and 2nd week of 15s is 45 reps per exercise (15 reps x 3 set). I increase the weight using a calculator that estimates my % of 15RM and just play by feel. I think you should just stick with ur program and eat more and only time will tell

These are just my 2cents and i hope u can comment on them too

60 reps per exercise on the 15s for me, seems excessive. It would mean the volume does not stay constant during the cycle. IMO load is the only thing that should change over the cycle (next to rep amount etc.), not volume. 4x15 on the squat/leg press at 100% of RM seems like hell. Respect haha

 

[tdawg_33]

Your right about protien intake. If you doubled from 100 to 200 g/day it would help tremendously. Ideally to gain muscle mass it's recommended to get at least 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight per day. It's hard to wrap your head around it, but getting FAT is a good thing. I was always very concious of keeping my self lean year round and my strength/muscle mass pretty much never changed until I made a comittment to eating and eating big. If you want to grow you must be gaining weight/strength on a consistent basis. I was having trouble getting in enough protein/kcals so I started drinking a gallon of whole milk every day in addition to 3 to 4 solid meals to bulk up. Since then I have seen a significant increase in strength and size. Be patient eat big, get plenty of rest, follow HST and be consistent. YOU WILL GROW! Many of the best on this site have gained 30-50 lbs and had amazing success. It's easy to lose fat, but hard to gain muscle

 

[Physick]

Your right about protien intake. If you doubled from 100 to 200 g/day it would help tremendously. Ideally to gain muscle mass it's recommended to get at least 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight per day.

I'm going to up to 2g/kg first, resulting in 150 grams of protein per day.

It's hard to wrap your head around it, but getting FAT is a good thing. I was always very concious of keeping my self lean year round and my strength/muscle mass pretty much never changed until I made a comittment to eating and eating big. If you want to grow you must be gaining weight/strength on a consistent basis.

Yes, maybe not so much for meso/endomorphs though. Their body type demands a different way of eating to get big. They might actually need less calories to build muscle, in the end putting on less fat, but because it is so much harder for them to lose this fat, it balances it out.
Ectomorphs by nature have a hard time putting on muscle. They'll have to get fatter in the 'off-season' to gain significant amounts of muscle. This big amount of added fat doesn't pose as much trouble though, as ectomorphs are very efficient fatburners, taking less time to burn the fat.

This is just a theory, though. Haha!

I was having trouble getting in enough protein/kcals so I started drinking a gallon of whole milk every day in addition to 3 to 4 solid meals to bulk up. Since then I have seen a significant increase in strength and size. Be patient eat big, get plenty of rest, follow HST and be consistent. YOU WILL GROW! Many of the best on this site have gained 30-50 lbs and had amazing success. It's easy to lose fat, but hard to gain muscle

I hardly have trouble eating big. My appetite is never-ending. On busy days it's harder to get them in, though, but the evenings mostly make up for it. I really hope I will finally grow but am remaining very skeptical based on the results I've gotten thus far on my new HST cycle...

 

[berserkerzx]

Well physick i would die for that picture of ur body XD i am no where near that, even with similar stats, plus what u mean volume does not stay constant during the cycle and what is IMO? my volume (total rep) is constant right? please explain with examples? at the end of my 15s I am only at 65%-70% of my 15RM is this wrong? or it must be 100% of 15rm at the end of 15s?

 

[T-man]

If I understand HST correctly, you need to be at your RM at the end of each 2 week mesocycle. You build up to the RM over your 6 workouts. I recommend these RM percentages for each mesocycle: Day 1 - 75%RM, Day 2 - 80%RM, Day 3 - 85%RM, Day 4 - 90%RM, Day 5 - 95%RM, Day 6 - 100%RM. Also, from the post below answered by Totentanz, as the weights increase your reps will (or should) decrease over each mesocycle.
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Originally Posted by T-man
After a lot of reading in this forum, I've decided to concentrate on total reps per lift instead of a strict reps/set scheme. Since I'm trying to get rid of fat, I've eliminated the 15's per one of Tot's posts and shooting for 20-30 reps during the 10's, and 10-20 reps during the 5's. My take is that with the lower weights at the outset of each mini cycle easily doable, reps should be higher and, as the weight increases, the reps would necessarily have to be reduced as the RM approaches. Weight progression over the mini cycles is 80%-80%-85%-90%-95%-100%. So here's how I've set up my current cycle:

10's (first "set" at least 10 reps)
day 1 30 reps
day 2 28 reps
day 3 26 reps
day 4 24 reps
day 5 22 reps
day 6 20 reps

(5's (first "set" at least 20 reps)
day 1 20 reps
day 2 18 reps
day 3 16 reps
day 4 14 reps
day 5 12 reps
day 6 10 reps

repeat 5's with each day the same as day 6, then find new RM's prior to SD.

Does this fit HST principles?



<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Yes, that does fit with HST principles. Remember, the key is to progress the load over time, meaning the amount of weight you are lifting. Volume as in number of total reps will likely decrease as the weight increases. It is simply not possible for most people to lift their 5 RM as many times as their 15 RM without spending hours in the gym and/or burning themselves out.
​

 

[Physick]

Well physick i would die for that picture of ur body XD i am no where near that, even with similar stats, plus what u mean volume does not stay constant during the cycle and what is IMO? my volume (total rep) is constant right? please explain with examples? at the end of my 15s I am only at 65%-70% of my 15RM is this wrong? or it must be 100% of 15rm at the end of 15s?

Haha, that's surprising me, considering the sheer amount of muscle mass on my bones at that time. Also, there is some STRONG lighting going on, which accentuates some cuts etc. This may be skewing the picture... You said you were higher % BF, yet with similar weight and height. This just means I carried a lil more muscle (5-10 pounds or so) and a little less fat (ditto).

These are the 3 most common adjustable variables in weight-lifting:
- Volume (sets * reps)
- Absolute Load (also called intensity, which is load relative to the rep range; e.g. 100 lbs for 5 reps may be low intensity, while those same 100 lbs for 15 reps is high intensity)
- Frequency (frequency of training/'hitting'/stimulating specific body parts/muscles)

On HST, the frequency stays the same: every muscle 3 times/week. The Absolute Load needs to be ever increasing (in little steps) over the span of the cycle. The Volume should, as frequency, also stay the same. Your volume for a week for, par example, Squats, is 3x3x15 = 135 (repsets) (3 times a week 3 sets of 15 reps). In order to also have this volume for, say, the 5 rep-weeks. You'd have to do 9 sets of 5, 3 times a week (3x9x5 = 135). Resting 2-3 mins between sets, doing 10 exercises every training session, this would mean that in those last 2 weeks you're doing 90 sets per workout session, which would take you over 3 hours to complete. Not optimal and not practical at all.

IMO = In My Opinion

1. 2 weeks 15s (1 set per exercise)
2. 2 weeks 8s (2 sets per exercise)
3. 2 weeks 5s (3 sets per exercise)

1. Volume = 45 repsets/week
2. Volume = 48 repsets/week
3. Volume = 45 repsets/week

First 2 weeks of 15s, 6 workouts total:
1st 75% 15RM
2nd 80% 15RM
3rd 85% 15RM
4th 90% 15RM
5th 95% 15RM
6th 100% 15RM (going to failure)

After that you'll start with the 8 rep-weeks. These will progress in the same manner. 75-80-85-90-95-100% of 8RM.
HOWEVER I have not found this to work too well, because jumping from 100% 8RM to 75% 5RM will result in a reduction of Absolute Load for the first couple of training sessions. (jumping from 80 kg (8RM) to 70 kg (75% 5RM). This does not fulfill the requirement of ever increasing Absolute Load. That's why I personally just add 1.5-2.5% every training session, regardless of whether I'll be hitting exactly 100% 8RM at the particular day I have to. As long as Absolute Load is slowly increasing every single training session.

For me, 15-rep training sessions take 30 mins to complete, 8-rep 1 hour and 5-rep 1 hour and 30 mins.

I hope you understand now haha!
At least, that's my take on it, whether correct or not.

 

[Physick]

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Yes, that does fit with HST principles. Remember, the key is to progress the load over time, meaning the amount of weight you are lifting. Volume as in number of total reps will likely decrease as the weight increases. It is simply not possible for most people to lift their 5 RM as many times as their 15 RM without spending hours in the gym and/or burning themselves out.
[/INDENT]

Very interesting, as this was the main source of confusion for me.

EDIT: This is really confusing me and it's frustrating that this isn't addressed by the HST homepage at all. It SEEMS logical that the only changing factor would be Absolute Load, not Volume (total reps, unit repsets) as well. I could hypothesize then, that 40 reps at 100% 10RM induce MORE muscle fiber damage/fatigue than 20 reps at 100% 5RM, as is seen in the proposed training regimen by T-man.
What do most people with great results on HST do? Lower the Volume as they're approaching 10/5RM?

 

[berserkerzx]

If I understand HST correctly, you need to be at your RM at the end of each 2 week mesocycle. You build up to the RM over your 6 workouts. I recommend these RM percentages for each mesocycle: Day 1 - 75%RM, Day 2 - 80%RM, Day 3 - 85%RM, Day 4 - 90%RM, Day 5 - 95%RM, Day 6 - 100%RM. Also, from the post below answered by Totentanz, as the weights increase your reps will (or should) decrease over each mesocycle.
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Originally Posted by T-man
After a lot of reading in this forum, I've decided to concentrate on total reps per lift instead of a strict reps/set scheme. Since I'm trying to get rid of fat, I've eliminated the 15's per one of Tot's posts and shooting for 20-30 reps during the 10's, and 10-20 reps during the 5's. My take is that with the lower weights at the outset of each mini cycle easily doable, reps should be higher and, as the weight increases, the reps would necessarily have to be reduced as the RM approaches. Weight progression over the mini cycles is 80%-80%-85%-90%-95%-100%. So here's how I've set up my current cycle:

10's (first "set" at least 10 reps)
day 1 30 reps
day 2 28 reps
day 3 26 reps
day 4 24 reps
day 5 22 reps
day 6 20 reps

(5's (first "set" at least 20 reps)
day 1 20 reps
day 2 18 reps
day 3 16 reps
day 4 14 reps
day 5 12 reps
day 6 10 reps

repeat 5's with each day the same as day 6, then find new RM's prior to SD.

Does this fit HST principles?



<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Yes, that does fit with HST principles. Remember, the key is to progress the load over time, meaning the amount of weight you are lifting. Volume as in number of total reps will likely decrease as the weight increases. It is simply not possible for most people to lift their 5 RM as many times as their 15 RM without spending hours in the gym and/or burning themselves out.
​

If i were to follow Day 1 - 75%RM, Day 2 - 80%RM, Day 3 - 85%RM, Day 4 - 90%RM, Day 5 - 95%RM, Day 6 - 100%RM, i won't be able to complete 15reps if its the 15s, please clarify. As what i am doing now is Day 1 - 45%RM, Day 2 - 50%RM, Day 3 - 55%RM, Day 4 - 60%RM, Day 5 - 65%RM, Day 6 - 70%RM, so means i am not adhering to the hst principles?

 

[tdawg_33]

An hour and a half is along session by any standards. You may consider dropping a few exercises in an effort to shorten your workout. A wise man once told me "You can workout hard or long, but you can't do both" 45 minutes to an hour should be a good target time because your energy levels will drop over the course of a longer session. I have noticed that as I approach 80% of my 1RM or higher that it takes a bigger toll on my CNS and it's better to reduce volume in an effort to avoid overtraining. I always thought that more sets would equal better results, and for some people that may hold true, but for your average person that's not always the case. I have even split upper/lower body exercises on seperate days and train each only 2 times a week since getting to the 80-85% 1 RM range to aid in recovery. It really all depends on your individual training tolerance/recovery ability. It is impossible to keep volume constant as weights increase without burning yourself out in the process.

 

[grunt11]

Hey Physick, I’ve got a some questions and comments.

What exercises are you doing and what does your routine look like?

Don’t eat +1000 kCal over maintenance you’re going to put on way too much fat and even if you find it easy to cut it will skew your bulking to cutting time more toward cutting which in the long run will hamper your gains. Start at about +500 and monitor your weight. If you are really eating at +500 then you should gain a pound a week which is an easy number to track. If you are not then adjust your intake until you are gaining a pound a week and that way you can find what your true caloric needs are rather than what some generic calculator is telling you.

By doing this, and working out hard, I put on 32lbs. in 32 weeks as a classic “ectomorph/hardgainer.” I put that in quotes because after starting HST I realized the whole ectomorph/hardgainer thing is just an excuse for being an under-eater/under-trainer. The reality is that in the general population people only have about a 5-10% difference between slow twitch (endurance) and fast twitch (power) muscle fibers.

I’m sharing this because I was in the same boat as you. I worked out for years gaining very little muscle for my effort. From age 21 I weight 113 lbs. at 5’6” when I joined the Marine Corps. 29 years later I’d gained 32lbs. up to 145lbs. By eating and working out right when I started HST at 50 years old (no chemical assistance) I gained 32 lbs. in just over 7 months peaking at 177lbs. now cut back down to 165lbs.

As others have said try to get 1-1.5g of protein/ lb. of body weight. Get about 20-30% of your calories from fat and get the rest from carbs.

Now for the bad news, you still to some extent may be genetically disadvantaged. With long arms it may be hard for you to ever make them look really big, or at least as big as you want. If you stick with big compound exercises for a few cycles you will find out where you grow the easiest and what needs help and can then start to target those lagging areas.

Another thing to think about is also after establishing a good foundation is to focus on muscle groups that make you look bigger regardless of what you are wearing. You probably have wide shoulders and need or are close to needing athletic cut suits. Well big shoulders with a small waist will always look big. Big traps make your neck look thicker and not as long hence you overall look bigger. If you really want to look big you need a big back, Deadlift, Rows, Chins. A big back makes you look thicker and more powerful, and same thing with big upper legs. Even with long limbs you should be able to grow those muscles in proportion to your size quite easily. And not only will big shoulders, upper back and upper legs make you look big and powerful they will make you big and powerful. As for the poser muscles like pecs and upper arms they will also come along but until you know where your genetic potential is you should just focus on the basics and you might be surprised as I’ve been that things like my chest have actually grown more than I expected.

 

[Physick]

If i were to follow Day 1 - 75%RM, Day 2 - 80%RM, Day 3 - 85%RM, Day 4 - 90%RM, Day 5 - 95%RM, Day 6 - 100%RM, i won't be able to complete 15reps if its the 15s, please clarify. As what i am doing now is Day 1 - 45%RM, Day 2 - 50%RM, Day 3 - 55%RM, Day 4 - 60%RM, Day 5 - 65%RM, Day 6 - 70%RM, so means i am not adhering to the hst principles?

T-man is talking about your 15 rep max (15RM), not your 1 rep max (1RM). So when he says 'day 5 of your 15-rep weeks: 95%', he means 95% of your 15 rep max.

To convert your 5 rep maxes, for example, to your 15 rep maxes, you can use the following tables, depending on whether it is an upper, or lower body movement:

 

[Physick]

@ tdawg
I really agree with you on that one. Workouts shouldn't last over an hour. I can honestly say that I feel my energy levels sinking exponentially as I get to the last few exercises. The fact that my legs HAVE been tolerating this high volume and intensity (have still been growing) may give me a hint. The lower body can much better cope with higher volumes as it's accustomed to it (walking, running etc.); not to mention the higher percentage of Slow Twitch fibers. This shows in the 'lower body repetition conversion' table I posted above. 15 RM and 1 RM squat do not differ as much, percentage wise, from each other as 15 RM and 1 RM bench press. The latter 2 have a tremendous gap between them.
At the end of my 8-rep weeks, I noticed that I actually LOST strength on the pull down (chin down) machine. This may indicate neural fatigue/overtraining. I'm definitely going to adjust my upper body exercise volume, getting closer to the end of my 5-rep weeks.

Thanks!

@ grunt11
Wow, that is some great and valuable info.

Routine, in order:
1 Standing Calf Raise
2 Incline Leg Press
3 Stiff-Legged Dead Lift
4 Leg Extension
5 Incline Bench Press
6 Chest Dips
7 Incline Cable Flyes
8 Chin Downs (on Lat Pull Down machine)
9 Preacher Curl Machine
10 Lateral Raise Machine

One of the weeks I started, I gained 4.4 lbs. In 7 days. That may indeed be indicating something, but skin folds measurements don't really show a significant increase. It might be water weight due to the sudden change of caloric intake as opposed to before the HST cycle.

Well, especially my legs are disproportionately long, which is why I bench more than I squat, and I deadlift double what I squat (shorter torso means shorter lever arm thus less Torque when Deadlifting).

Thanks for the further tips, you sure are one to be listened to.

 

[grunt11]

Take it for what It’s worth but here are some suggestions on your routine. Get rid of the Preacher Curls, Flyes and Leg Extensions. I would look at making the following exercises the core of your routine and focus on them in the following order.

Deadlift (conventional stance better for hypertrophy due to greater range of motion)
Squat (narrow stance is quad dominant while wide stance is hamstring dominant)
Chin Ups (or machine equivalent)
Shoulder Press (I like seated incline to take pressure off the shoulders some)
Dips
Rows (I prefer Dumbbell)
Shrugs
Bench Press (I prefer Incline)

Worthwhile other exercises would include:
Lateral Raises
Calf Raises
Leg Presses (only if you feel Squats aren’t hitting your Quads enough)
Curls (but only after establishing a foundation with compound pulling exercises and only if necessary)

The idea is to get big you work the biggest muscles the most. Lateral raises are important to balance shoulder strength and they also gibe wideness to the shoulders. Calf Raises aren’t really necessary but it doesn’t hurt to hit them. Hill sprints will also give them a good workout if you’re into that sort of thing.

As for cardio stick with high intensity stuff and only limited low to moderate intensity. Muscles will adapt to how you use them. So if you want bigger legs push heavy weights. If you want skinny legs run marathons. If you do both you’re sending your muscles mixed signals telling them to adapt to both which means your growth will be stunted.

The 4.4 lbs. you gained in 7 days was most likely muscle glycogen and associated water. Also note that since you took a layoff before starting HST your muscles won’t start growing right away since your body will first have to re-adapt neurologically to the exercises. Once you have neural adaptation then you should start to see more muscle growth.

Also when you track your weight you should do it over time. Day-to-day and even week-to-week fluctuations can be huge just based on hydration and glycogen levels. Weight numbers only become useful if you have your exercise and diet stabilized so that you are tracking true muscle and fat gain and not all the other factors involved. I keep a running average over time rather than worry about short term fluctuations.

 

[tdawg_33]

You may also notice (I did) that once you drop arm iso's that your much fresher/stronger on your compounds. You probably hadn't lost strength on pulldowns, but rather your biceps were still fatigued from being overworked. Try reading the Simplify and Win thread. It's about heavy basic compound routines that are short and simple and the best thing is they work! Good Luck on your training!

 

[Physick]

You may also notice (I did) that once you drop arm iso's that your much fresher/stronger on your compounds. You probably hadn't lost strength on pulldowns, but rather your biceps were still fatigued from being overworked. Try reading the Simplify and Win thread. It's about heavy basic compound routines that are short and simple and the best thing is they work! Good Luck on your training!

Acutely/intra training I DEFINITELY noticed this! I normally did chin ups (chin downs actually, on the pull-down machine) BEFORE machine preacher curls, but it was very crowded in the gym and the pull-down machine was constantly being used. I thus decided I'd do the machine preacher curls first, 2x8 at 95% of 8RM. After 3-4 mins of rest from that, I got to do my chin downs and was AMAZED at the fact that I was significantly weaker on them than the previous training session. CNS/local muscle fatigue buildup must indeed have had something to do with this.
It may be that this is not only happening intra training, but also chronically.

 

[berserkerzx]

T-man is talking about your 15 rep max (15RM), not your 1 rep max (1RM). So when he says 'day 5 of your 15-rep weeks: 95%', he means 95% of your 15 rep max.

To convert your 5 rep maxes, for example, to your 15 rep maxes, you can use the following tables, depending on whether it is an upper, or lower body movement:

Hey physick, how do i use the conversions table? use the value and multiple my 15RM or 1RM?

 

[Physick]

Hey physick, how do i use the conversions table? use the value and multiple my 15RM or 1RM?

Two examples:
- I know that my 8RM on the bench press is 170 lbs. I want to know what my 3RM on the bench press is. I look in the top table for 'Upper-body exercises' and search for 8 under 'Current'. The desired rep amount (the amount of reps I want to convert to) is, remember, 3. So I'll look for it. From the 8 Current I go to the right and from the 3 Desired I go down, until they cross each other. They cross each other at 1.16. So I need to multiply my 8RM with 1.16 in order to get my 3RM. 1.16 * 170 = 197.2 lbs. My 3RM is 197.2 lbs.

- I know that my 7RM on the squat is 210 lbs, but I want to know my 20RM. I use the same method as before: 7 at Current, 20 at desired, cross them, and they come together at 0.82. That is the number I want to multiply my 7RM (210 lbs) with. 210 * 0.82 = 172.2 lbs. Thus, my 20RM on the squat is 172.2 lbs.

If you know your 1RM for, say, bent over row is 180 lbs, you go to the 'Upper-body exercises' table. You want to know, for example, your 15RM for that exercise.
- 1 for Current
- 15 for Desired
- Cross them, they cross at 0.65
- 180 lbs * 0.65 = 117 lbs
- Your 15RM on the bent over row is 117 lbs

 

[Totentanz]

Very interesting, as this was the main source of confusion for me.

EDIT: This is really confusing me and it's frustrating that this isn't addressed by the HST homepage at all. It SEEMS logical that the only changing factor would be Absolute Load, not Volume (total reps, unit repsets) as well. I could hypothesize then, that 40 reps at 100% 10RM induce MORE muscle fiber damage/fatigue than 20 reps at 100% 5RM, as is seen in the proposed training regimen by T-man.
What do most people with great results on HST do? Lower the Volume as they're approaching 10/5RM?

Just fyi, this is addressed by bryan repeatedly, throughout the site. If you haven't read the FAQ section of the forum yet, that's probably your problem. For a first run, Bryan suggests only one two working sets the first week of each rep range, and only working set the second week. You will still be doing warmups. In another post, Bryan states that volume should be decided upon considering a few factors:

Increase volume if:

You are never sore
You are never tired
You are not growing

Maintain volume if:

You are slightly sore most of the time
You are tired enough to sleep well, but not so tired you lose motivation to train.
You are noticeably “fuller”

Decrease volume if:

You are experiencing over use pain, and strain symptoms in joints and/or muscles.
You are tired and irritable all the time, yet don’t sleep well.
Strength levels are significantly decreasing.

I would strongly recommend perusing the FAQs section of the forums:

http://thinkmuscle.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?35-HST-FAQ&order=desc

In addition, some of the HST articles might be useful:

http://hypertrophy-specific.info/articles.html

And when all else fails, the search function on the forum can turn up a lot of information. Be careful though because a lot of the older posts from the early days show up kind of garbled due to all the conversions between different types of software for the forums.

But anyway, here is my piece. Basically, it is going to be nearly impossible to keep up the same amount of total reps as the weight goes up. You can do 2-3 sets in the 15s, but if you try to do 45 total reps per exercise in the 5s, not only will you be in the gym for 2 hours or more (remember that over an hour in the gym increases cortisol...) but you will be severely overtraining and will probably end up getting sick as your immune system will just be totally trashed. In general for most trainees, simply keeping the same number of sets will be sufficient. So 2x15 in the 15s, 2x10 in the 10s, etc. It is only as you grow and become more advanced that you will need to start manipulating volume beyond that.