Rethinking Hst

Some folks have advised me to stick to a few base exercises and increase volume, but like I said I'm a fan of doing one hard set per exercise (not necessarily done until failure) than a few submaximal sets.

That could be why you feel HST does not work for you, will they really be submaximal sets if the rest period between sets is kept to a minimum, submaximal in weight maybe. Again if you start at 87.5% of rep max then sets 2 and 3 will not feel submaximal, assuming you do not take a 5 minute break of course.

Workout 1: 75% of 5RM for 10 reps (calculators claim 14)
Workout 2: 80% of 5RM for 9 reps (calculators claim 12)
Workout 3: 85% of 5RM for 8 reps (calculators claim 10)
Workout 4: 90% of 5RM for 7 reps (calculators claim 8)
Workout 5: 95% of 5RM for 6 reps (calculators claim 7)
Workout 6: 100% of 5RM for 5 reps

Will doing 10 reps at your 14rm etc not be submaximal
 
Maybe it will, maybe it will not assuming the fatigue spilled over from the end of the previous cycle. The first 1-2 workouts are done with a few reps to spare on purpose, to allow CNS to recover. And also for some metabolically effective higher rep work. You see, there's in effect no start and no ending, it's a full circle, the workouts complement each other. Or so I hope ;)

What's important is that the average load/intensity will be much higher than it used to be.
As you can see I'm not only repeating weeks 3-4 (or weeks 5-6 if you didn't skip 15s) of a HST cycle's usual 5s runup over and over again, but also "repping out" on the lighter days, with a set or two to spare.
 
Maybe it will, maybe it will not assuming the fatigue spilled over from the end of the previous cycle. The first 1-2 workouts are done with a few reps to spare on purpose, to allow CNS to recover. And also for some metabolically effective higher rep work. You see, there's in effect no start and no ending, it's a full circle, the workouts complement each other. Or so I hope ;)

What's important is that the average load/intensity will be much higher than it used to be.
As you can see I'm not only repeating weeks 3-4 (or weeks 5-6 if you didn't skip 15s) of a HST cycle's usual 5s runup over and over again, but also "repping out" on the lighter days, with a set or two to spare.

So, no SD?

And what about the volume? Will you keep doing 1 set per exercise no matter which rep range you are?
 
So, no SD?
Assuming I will be progressing from one cycle to the next utilizing these extended zig-zags, SD will not be necessary. Progression is quite naturally more important than SD. The only "new" thing about what I'm going to experiment with is the pyramid of increasing loads/decreasing reps, as described above. All workouts but the last are meant to be submaximal (no failure).

And what about the volume? Will you keep doing 1 set per exercise no matter which rep range you are?
Yup, for now. I have yet to be convinced that the extra effort to do more sets per exercise is required for progress.
 
edited post

Phil,

Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying that you just repeat the identical loads from one cycle to the next without ever increasing the load, if so this is incorrect. You cannot expect to grow without increasing the load etc.

Do you do a 7th and 8th week as the idea of the extra two weeks (or more) is to increase the loads and therefore after this period all of your rep maxes for each rep range should increase (in fact they will increase over the whole cycle), then you can either retest all your maxes or just recalculate your 15rm and 10rm from your new 5rm (or 3rm or whatever rep range you do in weeks 7 and 8). If you don't do the extra weeks you could always use the last session of 5s and do as many reps as possible and recalculate from there using online calculators etc.

Or as you mentioned you can add 2.5kgs or 5kgs to the next cycle.

Definitely not. I do increase loads from cycle to cycle. Here's what I was thinking: the first cycle of HST doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why not start the first cycle aiming for 100%+5lbs (or 100%+10lbs)? Why wait until your second cycle to increase the load?

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't the final two weeks of each cycle just 12 workouts at 100% of your 5rm? That or 2rm negatives?
 
I'm going to be using 5% increments counting back from my intended 5RM loads in this fashion:
Workout 1: 75% of 5RM for 10 reps (calculators claim 14)
Workout 2: 80% of 5RM for 9 reps (calculators claim 12)
Workout 3: 85% of 5RM for 8 reps (calculators claim 10)
Workout 4: 90% of 5RM for 7 reps (calculators claim 8)
Workout 5: 95% of 5RM for 6 reps (calculators claim 7)
Workout 6: 100% of 5RM for 5 reps

So intensity will be slowly adding up until my 5RM load. Growth can still occur using these previous loads due to a bit higher than before volume.
Expecting to start on Monday.
Very interesting. That's pushing the envelope on what is considered "submaximal," but, I think, in a good way.

Of course if it works you're going to have one hell of a time explaining why to anyone unfamiliar with HST. Lmao.

Also, an important thing to keep in mind to anyone reading: we're still following HST principles. There's nothing flawed about the principles in any way. We're just challenging one small aspect of those principles: strategic deconditioning (more specifically, the high frequency of strategic deconditioning). I don't think anyone's arguing that taking a couple weeks off every once in a while is a bad thing. But every 6-8 weeks while working at *extremely* submaximal loads (in comparison to traditional bro-splits) most of the time? Maybe not. That's what we're getting at. Or at least I think so.
 
Definitely not. I do increase loads from cycle to cycle. Here's what I was thinking: the first cycle of HST doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why not start the first cycle aiming for 100%+5lbs (or 100%+10lbs)? Why wait until your second cycle to increase the load?

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't the final two weeks of each cycle just 12 workouts at 100% of your 5rm? That or 2rm negatives?

1) no reason why that cannot be done

2) the extra 2 weeks (or more if you are still progressing) are for increasing your 5rm or you could just stick with your 5rm and try and increase the reps, but if you decide on negatives then at some point you will need to retest a rep max.
 
1) no reason why that cannot be done

2) the extra 2 weeks (or more if you are still progressing) are for increasing your 5rm or you could just stick with your 5rm and try and increase the reps, but if you decide on negatives then at some point you will need to retest a rep max.
Well that makes a million times more sense than what I was doing. Now I'm really pumped to get to that point in my current cycle. Thanks.

Edit: As for retesting the maxes, you do that at the end of the cycle, correct?
 
Well that makes a million times more sense than what I was doing. Now I'm really pumped to get to that point in my current cycle. Thanks.

Edit: As for retesting the maxes, you do that at the end of the cycle, correct?
1) what was you doing

2) Yes you would retest your maxes at the end of the cycle, the way I tend to do it is work from my projected 1 rep max based on current best lift assuming 15 rm is 65% of 1rm, 10rm is 75% and 5rm is 85% rounded up the next 2.5kg. So assuming I have achieved 100kgs x 6 reps I calculate my 1rm at 120kgs so 15rm is assumed between 77.5 and 80kgs, 10rm at 90kgs and 5rm at 102.5kgs.
 
Admittedly, while encouraging folks to use submaximal loads, HST doesn't want us to use inefficient starting ones. As mickc1965 wrote above, the starting load can be tweaked by using smaller increment steps. Believe me I tried during 5s for a long time. 2.5kg (5.5lb) are the smallest increments at my disposal. Using them would make the overall cycle more intense, but didn't help me to get stronger, indicating that the muscle size stayed the same. In various cycles I tried both 1 set and 3 sets per exercise. If I was fortunate enough I was able to gain one additional rep. This is hardly the rate of growth most of us are comfortable with in 7 weeks (6+1 week SD). So I'm willing to experiment with tweaking my training to speed that up. Getting rid of 1 week SD + 2-4 weeks of 10-15 loads will be the first step.
 
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1) what was you doing

2) Yes you would retest your maxes at the end of the cycle, the way I tend to do it is work from my projected 1 rep max based on current best lift assuming 15 rm is 65% of 1rm, 10rm is 75% and 5rm is 85% rounded up the next 2.5kg. So assuming I have achieved 100kgs x 6 reps I calculate my 1rm at 120kgs so 15rm is assumed between 77.5 and 80kgs, 10rm at 90kgs and 5rm at 102.5kgs.
2 weeks at 100% 5rm, as in 6 repeats of the last workout of the 5rm micro-cycle.
 
Admittedly, while encouraging folks to use submaximal loads, HST doesn't want us to use inefficient starting ones. As mickc1965 wrote above, the starting load can be tweaked by using smaller increment steps. Believe me I tried during 5s for a long time. 2.5kg (5.5lb) are the smallest increments at my disposal. Using them would make the overall cycle more intense, but didn't help me to get stronger, indicating that the muscle size stayed the same. In various cycles I tried both 1 set and 3 sets per exercise. If I was fortunate enough I was able to gain one additional rep. This is hardly the rate of growth most of us are comfortable with in 7 weeks (6+1 week SD). So I'm willing to experiment with tweaking my training to speed that up. Getting rid of 1 week SD + 2-4 weeks of 10-15 loads will be the first step.
Have you ever experimented with lower starting weights? Just curious.

Edit: I know how to multi-quote but I'm using my phone right now and it's fucking up every time I try.
 
Believe me I tried during 5s for a long time. 2.5kg (5.5lb) are the smallest increments at my disposal. Using them would make the overall cycle more intense, but didn't help me to get stronger, indicating that the muscle size stayed the same
You could always buy some 0.5 kg wrist / ankle weights and wrap them around the bar.
 
Have you ever experimented with lower starting weights? Just curious
Yes, just finished the cycle using 5kg (11 lb) increments for both 10s and 5s. Less strength gained in both, I couldn't even build up to my previous 10RM & 5RM loads (failed one rep short). For my incline bench press, that was a 7.5% increment for 10s and 6.7% increment for 5s. This is in line with Bryan's explanation that the lower the increment, the more strength and less muscle you gain, and the bigger the increment, the less strength AND more muscle you gain. I hope I didn't lose any muscle, though ;) Now I'm going to try out 5% increments during 5's and a bit more "reppy" submaximal run-up. Number of sets per exercise will still be limited to 1.
 
The emphasis is on upper body work. I might get rid of 1-2 deltoid exercises like I did with shrugs, don't yet feel the need to. It all depends on how I will be progressing with the new setup. I feel that most of the 2-week long cycle is going to be intense and tough, hope I'll be able to get through it. Some folks have advised me to stick to a few base exercises and increase volume, but like I said I'm a fan of doing one hard set per exercse (not necessarily done until failure) than a few submaximal sets.

Why is the emphasis on upper body?

Why so many exercises?
 
Why is that re: multiple sets per exercise?
A sufficiently heavy weight (I'm talking about optimal TUT also, so no heavier than about true 5-6RM) would require too lengthy rest intervals to repeat, prolonging the workout unduly (considering the unwillingness of going to the gym more frequently than 3 times per week). On the opposite extreme we have BB-style 3-4 sets with fixed short rest periods using lighter loads which are a bit impractical to implement in a semi-crowded gym. You tend to miss the proper time to do a set, get frustrated with potentially skewed progress tracking, etc. When you use different exercises, though, you no longer carry the psychological burden of the decreasing strength between sets, you concentrate on each exercise and do your best, having no idea how the load would feel when you're fresh. Especially when you alternate between sets on different body parts giving the just-worked body part some more time to rest.
 
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