Squat depth
- Thread starter HST_Rihad
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So squats don't build legs?
Are you serious?
That is a massively, massively retarded statement.
I did exclusively squats, deads and rdls for legs for years. I guess I must have grown them through magic since according to you, squats only grow your glutes and just last week, you claimed deads only work your hams.
HST_Rihad
Active Member
Of course squats grow legs. That's an extreme way to interpret this statement:
"I'll be brave enough to claim that Tom Platz grew his huge legs despite the full squats, not because of them."
to mean they grew all by themselves with no exercise (and drugs hehe). All I was saying, he would have probably grown as big legs doing only partial squats, if he wanted to.
Full squats grow legs just fine!! They also grow one's glutes. And since according to EMG data thighs experience at least as much exposure doing only partial squats, this might be a worthwhile idea for someone who wanted their glutes to grow less than they would in full ROM, but still allowing their thighs to reach their potential.
Deads work your legs, that's what I said. It was you who said partial deads (aka rack pulls) work your lower back preferentially to lift the load.
"I'll be brave enough to claim that Tom Platz grew his huge legs despite the full squats, not because of them."
to mean they grew all by themselves with no exercise (and drugs hehe). All I was saying, he would have probably grown as big legs doing only partial squats, if he wanted to.
Full squats grow legs just fine!! They also grow one's glutes. And since according to EMG data thighs experience at least as much exposure doing only partial squats, this might be a worthwhile idea for someone who wanted their glutes to grow less than they would in full ROM, but still allowing their thighs to reach their potential.
Deads work your legs, that's what I said. It was you who said partial deads (aka rack pulls) work your lower back preferentially to lift the load.
Yes, even if it were bodyweight.
And, of course, EMG is flawed. So is every single study ever done or technique used. You have to take the sum of all the flawed studies and draw your own conclusions. Unlike some other sciences, the study of hypertrophy is so new that we have not yet even found a reliable method to test various theories.
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And so, if everything works just fine and dandy, just do what you fancy doing and see if you get the results you're after.
Through one thing and another, I haven't attained the results I'm after just yet. I've tried low-bar, high-bar, front squats and bench/box squats, all at different depths over the years. Only recently have I started going deeper in front squats and high-bar back squats while attempting to maintain a more upright torso. I'm doing this primarily for strength transfer to the O-lifts. However, this is the first time that squatting has noticeably worked my quads more than the rest of my thighs. Glutes are never as sore as quads and adductors. I find I get much more of a sore butt when I do LBBS.
In order to get into a deeper squat, I've had to reduce the load I was using and improve my flexibility. I can't see how this is a bad thing? My knees are generally feeling happier than they did when I was doing heavier low-bar squats to parallel. It is possible that they will complain again at similar loads to what I was using previously, but it may be that my knees will have had more time to toughen up to heavier loading. I'll just have to get there to find out.
So, HST_Rihad, pick your squat style of choice and then stick at it for long enough to see if it's working out for you or not. All the best.
Sci
Well-Known Member
By far, I have never felt more strain on the quadriceps than on the hack squat machine. Platz used the hack squat machine also to develop his monstrous quads. The only reason I use the leg press instead of the hack squat is because the leg press feels way more natural, and uses more hip/glute power which I need for my deadlift goal. Also, the hack machine feels really hard on my knees, but that may be due to my poor flexibility.
If my goal were giant quadriceps above all else, I would definitely start training the hack squat machine.
Kids, don't try this at home:
[video=youtube_share;Co8IOVx1Sdk]http://youtu.be/Co8IOVx1Sdk[/video]
If my goal were giant quadriceps above all else, I would definitely start training the hack squat machine.
Kids, don't try this at home:
[video=youtube_share;Co8IOVx1Sdk]http://youtu.be/Co8IOVx1Sdk[/video]
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HST_Rihad
Active Member
Frankly I've never even tried hack squats myself, but I've always failed to understand how they can be any different from leg presses, physics-wise. You push the load away from yourself in leg presses, and you push yourself + load up in hack squats. Same angle.
p.s.: But hack squats do force you to emulate upright torso by putting the load on your shoulders. So it's probably more quad involvement.
p.s.: But hack squats do force you to emulate upright torso by putting the load on your shoulders. So it's probably more quad involvement.
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Bulldog
Active Member
If that's the case then you need to drop out of this conversation. The hack squat and leg press are very different mechanically.
Only at exactly 45 degrees is the angle the same. Otherwise it is the inverse. (Not that it matters one iota either way. 
)
)Even if we pretend EMG data is accurate enough, it still doesn't measure anything to do w/exposure to load.
Good luck w/that.
nativetroutbum
Member
This last cycle I've been deep/ full ROM squatting for the first time in my life; previously I had only gone to parallel.
Deep/Full ROM squats are definitely "working" everything in my upper leg and my glutes in ways that I've never felt before... My experience only; not a study, no special equipment measuring activity of this and that. Just me working hard in the gym, trying something new, something difficult; and then staying in tune with my body, eating properly to grow, and meticulously tracking everything. Only time will tell what my results will be, but I am already up about 1/2 an inch on each quad measurement.
Research is great. Analysis paralysis is bad. Get in the gym and do.
Deep/Full ROM squats are definitely "working" everything in my upper leg and my glutes in ways that I've never felt before... My experience only; not a study, no special equipment measuring activity of this and that. Just me working hard in the gym, trying something new, something difficult; and then staying in tune with my body, eating properly to grow, and meticulously tracking everything. Only time will tell what my results will be, but I am already up about 1/2 an inch on each quad measurement.
Research is great. Analysis paralysis is bad. Get in the gym and do.
Tryingtologin
Member
Squats and milk, squats and milk...
HST_Rihad
Active Member
Today another guy occupied the squat rack for the whole duration of my visit, and it was my squat day, so I had to train other body parts and finally had to go for leg presses at the end of w/o. He worked up to around 220 kg (485 lbs) teeny-weeny partial squats pretty vigorously, and I heard him bragging to his mate loudly that this is nothing compared to the maxes he did before: 300 kg (660 lbs), which he's about to work up to in a couple of weeks from now. He also mentioned that such loads were unheard of (within his circle of acquaintances) without taking steroids, which he himself presumably didn't. Didn't have an opportunity to see the size of his legs because of the long shorts he was wearing.
nativetroutbum
Member
Sounds like he is trying to overcompensate for shortcomings elsewhere.
Doesn't matter how big HIS legs are, the real question is, "how big are YOUR legs going to get when you commit to doing full squats?" You'll only know by doing.
Sci
Well-Known Member
Yeah, screw that guy. Next time he brags about his squat, tell him he's cheating, and real men squat to parallel at least. Any pussy can load up the bar and do quarter squats.
HST_Rihad
Active Member
Agreed, up to a point. I saw that first guy load up 100 kg (220 lbs) in flat bench press and go for 6-8 reps, probably 4-5 sets (very likely per the classical 3-way weekly body split). Which is cool, but nothing for spectators to lose sleep over (compared to 220 kg (485 lbs) squat partials). Impressing people I hardly know with how much load I can pull off the racks doesn't matter much to me. It's muscle size I'm after, and the enhanced overall systemic milieu + advantages such overload training could bring. So the best way for me to see is to try that.
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