The "building muscle and losing fat" debate

Discussion in 'General Training' started by imported_etothepii, Jan 17, 2007.

  1. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    I was wondering the same thing.  I'm guessing he has miscalculated his BF% and his results are not what he thought they were.
     
  2. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    I don't know if people all realize this, but bodyfat measurements are very unreliable anyway.
     
  3. Unless the measuring method is an autopsy...it may be a pain to get one though [​IMG]
     
  4. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, it is impossible there too. The body just can't do it. What I think must be happening for newbies is that the stimulus of exercise/diet on their unconditioned bodies causes a reaction of frequent shifts between muscle building and fat loss. It has the apperance of a simultaneous transformation, but really, it's discrete and alternating steps in both directions: Kind of like the difference between a ramp and stairs.</div>

    Good use of words. I completely agree when you break it down like that. Building muscle and losing fat at the same time is impossible. People make this statement (me included) when looking at time as a short period like one month. Frequent shifts between muscle building and fat loss is a good way to look at it, ramps and stairs as you say.
     
  5. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Best measuring device. The mirror.
    See the fat.
    You are fat.
     
  6. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    Your arms looking huge quad! Don't take this the wrong way but...Just think how big they will look when you lose some weight. I am still in the 'get big' phase myself and the belly fat is hanging around, but I can hardly wait to slim down for summer and show my new physique off.
     
  7. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Hey, Quad: that's not too bad at all and as Sci said, &quot;Great guns man!&quot;. You'll be lean as a skinless chicken by summer if that's what you want.

    I'm going to have a go at getting leaner now for a few months and see what transpires. First time I've ever tried to retain muscle while loosing fat. I've lost about 4lbs already but I am starting to feel weaker even though I haven't dropped the loads in any lifts yet. Still have a week of 10s and then the 5s to go though. Boy are the 5s going to feel hard.

    When I've lost a bit more blubber I'll muster up the courage to take a pic and post it. I really hate taking pics of myself, much as I hate looking in the mirror - never like what I see! I'll just keep telling myself that it's in the interest of science. [​IMG]
     
  8. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    There are two ways you can inspire yourself, and they're both right.
    1.) You look in the mirror and go &quot;DAYUM; LOOKIT THAT BAD BOY!&quot; and go work out.
    2.) You look in the mirror and say &quot;CRAP. Gotta FIX that!&quot; and go work out.

    I could live with myself if it just weren't for that GUT...I'm gonna have to buy a bigger pants size again before I get off this cycle. Liposuction?
     
  9. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Jan. 21 2007,21:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There are two ways you can inspire yourself, and they're both right.
    1.) You look in the mirror and go &quot;DAYUM; LOOKIT THAT BAD BOY!&quot; and go work out.
    2.) You look in the mirror and say &quot;CRAP. Gotta FIX that!&quot; and go work out.

    I could live with myself if it just weren't for that GUT...I'm gonna have to buy a bigger pants size again before I get off this cycle. Liposuction?</div>
    lol...you don't have that much fat to lose...it's all in the diet, can't ever cheat, not even a little
     
  10. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    <div>
    (drpierredebs @ Jan. 18 2007,12:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It is simply not true that anyone can gain muscle and loss fat at the same time.</div>
    If you were right, it would be good, but your not.
     
  11. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    From the interesting debate so far, let us just say it is possible to loose fat and retain muscle, as it has been proven by quite a few of our own disciples [​IMG]

    If we use a fairly heavy load and mix resistance traing with cardio + use good nutrition it is indeed possible [​IMG]

    What I need to do is prove it by doing it myself!

    Quad - I don't feel so lonely anymore, my damn gut worries me too, I am currently 84 cm around and this year I am planning to shrinkl it to at least 76 cm (that is 8 cm or roughly 3 inches), by July 07, can it be done?

    Sure it can it is all in the how, I guess! [​IMG]
     
  12. vagrant

    vagrant New Member

    You are calling separation in the middle of the rectus and between it and the obliques a gut? You aren't too much more than 10%. From the way you described it before, I had imagined a REAL bulking belly like the one I'm going to have [​IMG] when summer gets here.
     
  13. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    <div>
    (vagrant @ Jan. 22 2007,08:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You are calling separation in the middle of the rectus and between it and the obliques a gut?  You aren't too much more than 10%.  From the way you described it before, I had imagined a REAL bulking belly like the one I'm going to have [​IMG]  when summer gets here.</div>
    I would have to agree with stevejones and vagrant here. I don't think you are carrying that much BF. I think you may just have larger abdominal muscles than you thought which is making your &quot;gut&quot; bigger than you want it to be.
     
  14. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Maybe this one will show it better...double bi pulls it up a lot. I've been guessed at over 15%, and I'd agree.
     
  15. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Double post. Site messin' up.
     
  16. vagrant

    vagrant New Member

    You still have separation. Cutting isn't going to be that difficult for you.
     
  17. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    I bought one of those scales awhile back that has an electrical impedance analysis. It always says I am above 20% bodyfat! Based on my pics guys have guessed me between 12% and 17%. I just go by the mirror and my waist measurment now. This cycle I really want growth so currently I am gaining weight, but I still get urges to cut down and get lean now and then. So far I am resisting the urges, as I want my strength and mass to increase and I know that won't happen once I get too worried about bodyfat.

    I wish I could gain muscle and strength and lose some bodyfat at the same time this cycle, I just don't see how it is possible to do both.

    Here is a current pic:
    [​IMG]

    I am gaining weight this cycle without getting smooth, so that is great. As long as I can keep gaining without getting too much blubber I will continue to slowly gain weight. This pic is not a good example as my waist and thighs are where all the fat is, but this pic is the most current.

    If I had as much MUSCLE MASS as you Quad, I would be more confident to do a cut.
     
  18. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Jan. 22 2007,11:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Maybe this one will show it better...double bi pulls it up a lot. I've been guessed at over 15%, and I'd agree.</div>
    Hmmm....I'd say that 15% is a pretty good guess. Someone talked about your ab muscles....think it was bulldog...and I think he is correct. My heavy squats and also deadlifts were working my abs pretty good, and you throw some fat on top of those and your gut can get pretty big, which is why i think i got up to a 44&quot; waist. That's one of the reasons I never do any ab work, both during bulking and cutting phases. Although, the heavier I squat the bigger my abs are going to get...that's life.
     
  19. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Technically, aren't we losing fat, gaining fat, losing protein and gaining protein all the time? Fat and protein don't just sit there, right?
     
  20. JonPaul

    JonPaul New Member

    Maybe bone density. Bone weight vary's by bodyweight. Powerlifters bones weigh more than a supermodels, because of just carrying excess weight.

    Maybe Water hydration ?? Who knows!?

    In  my case, I made size improvements all the way around. I gained muscle. That was confirmed by calipers.

    If you equating &quot;gaining muscle&quot; by the scale, then technically no. But if your equating gaining muscle by circumfernces vs. Body fat, I gained muscle. Around 7 I would assume.


    Adding this later: Most of my 215 weight was in the gut, which i took from 38 inches to 31 inches, with my arms starting at blazing 13 inches flexed, to a blazing 14-1/4 flexed.

    In my mind, I gained muscle, totally.
     

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