the_dark_master
New Member
Well, using that logic - we should all subscribe to M&F... and if you argue otherwise you're a f'kin idiot! Right?
What do you guys think is better
- Thread starter Joe.Muscle
- Start date
stevejones
Member
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(the_dark_master @ Feb. 11 2007,16:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, using that logic - we should all subscribe to M&F... and if you argue otherwise you're a f'kin idiot! Right?
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If I used a wall locker full of drugs every day then I probably would.
(the_dark_master @ Feb. 11 2007,16:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, using that logic - we should all subscribe to M&F... and if you argue otherwise you're a f'kin idiot! Right?
If I used a wall locker full of drugs every day then I probably would.
the_dark_master
New Member
But their "houses" are Bigger ergo - according to your logic, we should follow their advice without question
stevejones
Member
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(the_dark_master @ Feb. 11 2007,17:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But their "houses" are Bigger ergo - according to your logic, we should follow their advice without question
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You're arguing apples and oranges. You're comparing someone who is working with primitive tools to build a house versus someone who has the most advanced technology and tools available to them. It's a completely different ballgame.
(the_dark_master @ Feb. 11 2007,17:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But their "houses" are Bigger ergo - according to your logic, we should follow their advice without question
You're arguing apples and oranges. You're comparing someone who is working with primitive tools to build a house versus someone who has the most advanced technology and tools available to them. It's a completely different ballgame.
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(stevejones @ Feb. 12 2007,10:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Bottom line-it's all about his results. What does his house or the houses of the other guys look like ? In bbing, your house is your body. In powerlifting, your house is the weight you put up.</div>
And sometimes the best coaches are the ones who do **** in the sport, because they are the ones who are struggling like ass to gain 10lbs on their lift while others are hammering out 50lb gains with little effort.
Generally these types become obsessive in learning the little details. If somebody like Dan gained muscle with little effort, its unlikely he would have become an obsessive hypertrophy geek.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">but would add that for a coach I would say the results of his client's are more important than his own results</div>
And in lyles case his clients got results, people around the world have gotten results from his programs and something like his bulking plan works as good as any program out there. it basically covers all of the aspects of HST, with frequent training, progressive overload, heavy weights and then taking a break. He doesnt base it around the same program as the sample HST workout, and he attempts to focus growth onto a specific muscle group rather than attempting to grow all at once, which is a simple physiological concept (which I have seen put to some good use by powerlifters).
he has also provided some interesting periodization ideas by utilizing some ideas from endurance based periodization and applying it to bodybuilding. One of the people on his forum appears to like the style a lot - Block training is the term. The person using it is Sporto - a relatively gifted young b'stard
(stevejones @ Feb. 12 2007,10:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Bottom line-it's all about his results. What does his house or the houses of the other guys look like ? In bbing, your house is your body. In powerlifting, your house is the weight you put up.</div>
And sometimes the best coaches are the ones who do **** in the sport, because they are the ones who are struggling like ass to gain 10lbs on their lift while others are hammering out 50lb gains with little effort.
Generally these types become obsessive in learning the little details. If somebody like Dan gained muscle with little effort, its unlikely he would have become an obsessive hypertrophy geek.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">but would add that for a coach I would say the results of his client's are more important than his own results</div>
And in lyles case his clients got results, people around the world have gotten results from his programs and something like his bulking plan works as good as any program out there. it basically covers all of the aspects of HST, with frequent training, progressive overload, heavy weights and then taking a break. He doesnt base it around the same program as the sample HST workout, and he attempts to focus growth onto a specific muscle group rather than attempting to grow all at once, which is a simple physiological concept (which I have seen put to some good use by powerlifters).
he has also provided some interesting periodization ideas by utilizing some ideas from endurance based periodization and applying it to bodybuilding. One of the people on his forum appears to like the style a lot - Block training is the term. The person using it is Sporto - a relatively gifted young b'stard
stevejones
Member
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">And sometimes the best coaches are the ones who do **** in the sport, because they are the ones who are struggling like ass to gain 10lbs on their lift while others are hammering out 50lb gains with little effort.</div>
Correct
Correct
If you are a professional BBer or strive to be one and don't mind loading your body up with all sorts of drugs, then, yes, you should listen to M&F and follow their routines.
And Joe, sorry but I don't take investment advice from people who have made less money then me. I take advice from people who have made more money than me. I would advise you to do the same.
As for this magical 200 pounds I hear on other forums and heard for the first time ever today on this forum, I am surprised that anyone who had the intelligence to visit this forum would actually think like that. At 5'8" and 185 pounds with 9% bodyfat, I wouldn't want to weigh 200 pounds unless I was into some type of powerlifting and my goal was to just lift as much weight as possible, forget about relative strength and aesthetics. Frank Zane was 5'9" and 195 pounds at his prime. Does that make him small?
If my way of thinking makes me a "f'kin idiot", so be it and I shall henceforth be known as a "f'kin idiot" and proud of it.
And Joe, sorry but I don't take investment advice from people who have made less money then me. I take advice from people who have made more money than me. I would advise you to do the same.
As for this magical 200 pounds I hear on other forums and heard for the first time ever today on this forum, I am surprised that anyone who had the intelligence to visit this forum would actually think like that. At 5'8" and 185 pounds with 9% bodyfat, I wouldn't want to weigh 200 pounds unless I was into some type of powerlifting and my goal was to just lift as much weight as possible, forget about relative strength and aesthetics. Frank Zane was 5'9" and 195 pounds at his prime. Does that make him small?
If my way of thinking makes me a "f'kin idiot", so be it and I shall henceforth be known as a "f'kin idiot" and proud of it.
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(Aaron_F @ Feb. 11 2007,17:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Frank Zane was 5'9" and 195 pounds at his prime. Does that make him small?</div>
yep</div>
I hereby pass on my title to you.
(Aaron_F @ Feb. 11 2007,17:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Frank Zane was 5'9" and 195 pounds at his prime. Does that make him small?</div>
yep</div>
I hereby pass on my title to you.
stevejones
Member
<div>
(Old and Grey @ Feb. 11 2007,17:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If you are a professional BBer or strive to be one and don't mind loading your body up with all sorts of drugs, then, yes, you should listen to M&F and follow their routines.
And Joe, sorry but I don't take investment advice from people who have made less money then me. I take advice from people who have made more money than me. I would advise you to do the same.
As for this magical 200 pounds I hear on other forums and heard for the first time ever today on this forum, I am surprised that anyone who had the intelligence to visit this forum would actually think like that. At 5'8" and 185 pounds with 9% bodyfat, I wouldn't want to weigh 200 pounds unless I was into some type of powerlifting and my goal was to just lift as much weight as possible, forget about relative strength and aesthetics. Frank Zane was 5'9" and 195 pounds at his prime. Does that make him small?
If my way of thinking makes me a "f'kin idiot", so be it and I shall henceforth be known as a "f'kin idiot" and proud of it.
</div>
lol, great post
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Frank Zane was 5'9" and 195 pounds at his prime. Does that make him small?
yep</div>
5'9" 195 lbs at his low bodyfat is small ? Yeah, right...and Sporto is a small fry because he can only bench press 315x9...definitely small fry status compared to me. Come on man
(Old and Grey @ Feb. 11 2007,17:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If you are a professional BBer or strive to be one and don't mind loading your body up with all sorts of drugs, then, yes, you should listen to M&F and follow their routines.
And Joe, sorry but I don't take investment advice from people who have made less money then me. I take advice from people who have made more money than me. I would advise you to do the same.
As for this magical 200 pounds I hear on other forums and heard for the first time ever today on this forum, I am surprised that anyone who had the intelligence to visit this forum would actually think like that. At 5'8" and 185 pounds with 9% bodyfat, I wouldn't want to weigh 200 pounds unless I was into some type of powerlifting and my goal was to just lift as much weight as possible, forget about relative strength and aesthetics. Frank Zane was 5'9" and 195 pounds at his prime. Does that make him small?
If my way of thinking makes me a "f'kin idiot", so be it and I shall henceforth be known as a "f'kin idiot" and proud of it.
lol, great post
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Frank Zane was 5'9" and 195 pounds at his prime. Does that make him small?
yep</div>
5'9" 195 lbs at his low bodyfat is small ? Yeah, right...and Sporto is a small fry because he can only bench press 315x9...definitely small fry status compared to me. Come on man
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(stevejones @ Feb. 12 2007,11:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">5'9" 195 lbs at his low bodyfat is small ? Yeah, right...and Sporto is a small fry because he can only bench press 315x9...definitely small fry status compared to me. Come on man</div>
How is small regulated by how much they can bench? having met 75kg lifters who are benching close to 250kg does that mean they are as big as you? A person just benched 700 in training,. does that make him bigger than you?
From memory Sporto was around 240lbs with visible abs, and around 5'9" or so, 200+ in competition trim.
From a non-drug using amateur.
(stevejones @ Feb. 12 2007,11:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">5'9" 195 lbs at his low bodyfat is small ? Yeah, right...and Sporto is a small fry because he can only bench press 315x9...definitely small fry status compared to me. Come on man</div>
How is small regulated by how much they can bench? having met 75kg lifters who are benching close to 250kg does that mean they are as big as you? A person just benched 700 in training,. does that make him bigger than you?
From memory Sporto was around 240lbs with visible abs, and around 5'9" or so, 200+ in competition trim.
From a non-drug using amateur.
scientific muscle
New Member
Zane was small, but he would blow any of us off the stage in a posedown (in his prime of course). That little guy could pose so well he made himself look larger than life on the stage!
Anyway....this thread has become quite interesting!
Anyway....this thread has become quite interesting!
stevejones
Member
Congratulations, you effectively missed the point
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">From memory Sporto was around 240lbs with visible abs, and around 5'9" or so, 200+ in competition trim.</div> ----
Yep, i'm bigger than that...definitely small fry status
and Yep, I'm stronger than him....definitely "weak fry" status (better ?)
The point is that it's ludicrous for me to say those things just because I'm stronger or bigger, just as it's ludicrous to say that Frank Zane, a former mr. olympia, was small because there are some polynesians who are 300 lbs
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">having met 75kg lifters who are benching close to 250kg does that mean they are as big as you?</div>
165 lb guy benching 550 lbs ? There is no such thing, unless they're wearing double ply shirts. The world record for 165 lb class is 500 lbs (shirted, of course). I can actually get close to that with a shirt, and it is no way indicative of my true bench strength. Shirted benching is retarded.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">From memory Sporto was around 240lbs with visible abs, and around 5'9" or so, 200+ in competition trim.</div> ----
Yep, i'm bigger than that...definitely small fry status
and Yep, I'm stronger than him....definitely "weak fry" status (better ?)
The point is that it's ludicrous for me to say those things just because I'm stronger or bigger, just as it's ludicrous to say that Frank Zane, a former mr. olympia, was small because there are some polynesians who are 300 lbs
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">having met 75kg lifters who are benching close to 250kg does that mean they are as big as you?</div>
165 lb guy benching 550 lbs ? There is no such thing, unless they're wearing double ply shirts. The world record for 165 lb class is 500 lbs (shirted, of course). I can actually get close to that with a shirt, and it is no way indicative of my true bench strength. Shirted benching is retarded.
stevejones
Member
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Feb. 11 2007,18:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Zane was small, but he would blow any of us off the stage in a posedown (in his prime of course). That little guy could pose so well he made himself look larger than life on the stage!
Anyway....this thread has become quite interesting!</div>
He was, however, little for a Mr. Olympia. How he reached that status is quite unbelievable to me. Politics, of course, played a huge part, but politics are also why Schwarzgovernator took the Olympia 7 times.
(scientific muscle @ Feb. 11 2007,18:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Zane was small, but he would blow any of us off the stage in a posedown (in his prime of course). That little guy could pose so well he made himself look larger than life on the stage!
Anyway....this thread has become quite interesting!</div>
He was, however, little for a Mr. Olympia. How he reached that status is quite unbelievable to me. Politics, of course, played a huge part, but politics are also why Schwarzgovernator took the Olympia 7 times.
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(stevejones @ Feb. 12 2007,12:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The point is that it's ludicrous for me to say those things just because I'm stronger or bigger, just as it's ludicrous to say that Frank Zane, a former mr. olympia, was small because there are some polynesians who are 300 lbs</div>
Size is measured by one thing, size. Not strength, not olympia performances, size.
Rich Gasparia was larger than Frank, but Rich never won Olympia.
Just as Greg Kovacs never won olympia, but he was a bigger than Zane.
Hell, most of the competitors against frank were bigger than him, but he still won.
Just because he won, it doesnt make him big.
A 300lb poly is bigger than zane, no amount of olympia titles would change that.
(stevejones @ Feb. 12 2007,12:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The point is that it's ludicrous for me to say those things just because I'm stronger or bigger, just as it's ludicrous to say that Frank Zane, a former mr. olympia, was small because there are some polynesians who are 300 lbs</div>
Size is measured by one thing, size. Not strength, not olympia performances, size.
Rich Gasparia was larger than Frank, but Rich never won Olympia.
Just as Greg Kovacs never won olympia, but he was a bigger than Zane.
Hell, most of the competitors against frank were bigger than him, but he still won.
Just because he won, it doesnt make him big.
A 300lb poly is bigger than zane, no amount of olympia titles would change that.
stevejones
Member
<div>
(Aaron_F @ Feb. 11 2007,18:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(stevejones @ Feb. 12 2007,12:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The point is that it's ludicrous for me to say those things just because I'm stronger or bigger, just as it's ludicrous to say that Frank Zane, a former mr. olympia, was small because there are some polynesians who are 300 lbs</div>
Size is measured by one thing, size. Not strength, not olympia performances, size.
Rich Gasparia was larger than Frank, but Rich never won Olympia.
Just as Greg Kovacs never won olympia, but he was a bigger than Zane.
Hell, most of the competitors against frank were bigger than him, but he still won.
Just because he won, it doesnt make him big.</div>
5'9"@195 lbs with 5% bodyfat is not a small man
(Aaron_F @ Feb. 11 2007,18:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(stevejones @ Feb. 12 2007,12:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The point is that it's ludicrous for me to say those things just because I'm stronger or bigger, just as it's ludicrous to say that Frank Zane, a former mr. olympia, was small because there are some polynesians who are 300 lbs</div>
Size is measured by one thing, size. Not strength, not olympia performances, size.
Rich Gasparia was larger than Frank, but Rich never won Olympia.
Just as Greg Kovacs never won olympia, but he was a bigger than Zane.
Hell, most of the competitors against frank were bigger than him, but he still won.
Just because he won, it doesnt make him big.</div>
5'9"@195 lbs with 5% bodyfat is not a small man
scientific muscle
New Member
Well, I am glad that most of you guys respect my opinion even though I am a little weeny.
Heck, I even influenced steve jones' training!!!
Here, here to little weenies telling huge guys how to workout!
Here, here to little weenies telling huge guys how to workout!
stevejones
Member
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Feb. 11 2007,18:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, I am glad that most of you guys respect my opinion even though I am a little weeny.
Heck, I even influenced steve jones' training!!!
Here, here to little weenies telling huge guys how to workout!
</div>
lol
(scientific muscle @ Feb. 11 2007,18:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, I am glad that most of you guys respect my opinion even though I am a little weeny.
Here, here to little weenies telling huge guys how to workout!
lol