i saw this while browsing the net, and in some way i think its kinda freak...
http://www.craigproductions.com/RichardS.htm
http://www.craigproductions.com/RichardS.htm
Youngest bodybuilder ?
- Thread starter Louno
- Start date
There was a program on him. Its always on discovery health or somethin.
His dad was a bit crazy and made him train ALL day. + he was putn steroids in his drinks from the age of 2.
Think they put his dad in jail, so he stopped avn his steroid drinks and turned into a normal looking kid. He was still nuts though, hed bin doin loadsa martial arts since he was 2.
His dad was a bit crazy and made him train ALL day. + he was putn steroids in his drinks from the age of 2.
Think they put his dad in jail, so he stopped avn his steroid drinks and turned into a normal looking kid. He was still nuts though, hed bin doin loadsa martial arts since he was 2.
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
There is a special on him again tonight on TLC (The Learning Channel) @ 9pm Central Time if interested.
From what I've read, they have never proven that he did take steroids. His dad is in jail for beating the crap out of him and his mom, not for feeding his kid steroids.
Also, he has been banned from weight lifting until he is older, that's why he lost a lot of his muscle tone.
I don't know if he was on steroids or not. I've read that some steroids can make your growth plates close, but not all of them do, so maybe he'll be a midget now if he was on them, then again, maybe not.
I try to keep an open mind. I think a physique like that could be possible without steroids, considering how intensely his dad made him train, and how much he manipulated the kid's diet. The kid would have to be greatly gifted genetically probably, but it's possible.
Also, he has been banned from weight lifting until he is older, that's why he lost a lot of his muscle tone.
I don't know if he was on steroids or not. I've read that some steroids can make your growth plates close, but not all of them do, so maybe he'll be a midget now if he was on them, then again, maybe not.
I try to keep an open mind. I think a physique like that could be possible without steroids, considering how intensely his dad made him train, and how much he manipulated the kid's diet. The kid would have to be greatly gifted genetically probably, but it's possible.
Theres being open minded and theres being stupid (no offence).
He was on steroids, his dad gavem to him ina protein shake. The second his dad got banned from given him it the kid lost everything. Also, the BBers and trainers they had on the show all thought he was on steds and refused to train him until the dad told him about the 'magic protein shake', which incidentally the dad would not let anyone else see.
As far as his dad training him hard, fair enough, but this goes on everywhere. It goes on in developed countries to achieve sporting excellence and in less developed countries as a way of getting above the rest.
Fact is with his kinda physique he woulda probably beatn 99% of natural BBerts in the world, no chance without steroids. And everybody in the BBing community, with far more knowledge and experience than us, said they had never seen anything like it and no amount of genetics would give him that physique.
Finally, he wasnt banned from training, it even shows you on that film. He starts training to get in shape for 'lil Tarzan' (or something like that) and he looks like crap without the gear, also hes not half as strong and lacks stamina.
He was on steroids, his dad gavem to him ina protein shake. The second his dad got banned from given him it the kid lost everything. Also, the BBers and trainers they had on the show all thought he was on steds and refused to train him until the dad told him about the 'magic protein shake', which incidentally the dad would not let anyone else see.
As far as his dad training him hard, fair enough, but this goes on everywhere. It goes on in developed countries to achieve sporting excellence and in less developed countries as a way of getting above the rest.
Fact is with his kinda physique he woulda probably beatn 99% of natural BBerts in the world, no chance without steroids. And everybody in the BBing community, with far more knowledge and experience than us, said they had never seen anything like it and no amount of genetics would give him that physique.
Finally, he wasnt banned from training, it even shows you on that film. He starts training to get in shape for 'lil Tarzan' (or something like that) and he looks like crap without the gear, also hes not half as strong and lacks stamina.
I didn't say he was banned from training, I said he was banned from weightlifting. The documentary I saw on him said that a Judge decreed that he cannot lift weights until he is 16, though he still trains in martial arts and stuff like that.
If you stop lifting weights for years, steroid usage or not, you're going to lose a lot.
It also said quite clearly that he has been tested several times and they never detected steroid usage, and that it has supposedly never been proven that he was being given steroids. Of course everyone thinks that he was given them, but there is apparently no proof. So stating blatantly that his steroid use is a fact, like it has been proven is jumping the gun a bit. If his dad was really giving him steroids in a protein shake, then obviously they would be oral steroids and in that case, the kid's liver is probably just about on it's death bed, so I'm pretty sure he wasn't slipping steroids into the kid's protein shake. He'd be stupid to give him oral steroids.
Sure, he might have been given steroids at some point, but there really is no point in just discounting him completely just because you assume his results aren't possible without steroid usage. Besides, if he really was given steroids that often when he was young, it will become obvious as he gets older.
Anyway, steroids doesn't give you that kind of flexibility, so he's obviously trained hard to get where he's at, steroids or not.
If you stop lifting weights for years, steroid usage or not, you're going to lose a lot.
It also said quite clearly that he has been tested several times and they never detected steroid usage, and that it has supposedly never been proven that he was being given steroids. Of course everyone thinks that he was given them, but there is apparently no proof. So stating blatantly that his steroid use is a fact, like it has been proven is jumping the gun a bit. If his dad was really giving him steroids in a protein shake, then obviously they would be oral steroids and in that case, the kid's liver is probably just about on it's death bed, so I'm pretty sure he wasn't slipping steroids into the kid's protein shake. He'd be stupid to give him oral steroids.
Sure, he might have been given steroids at some point, but there really is no point in just discounting him completely just because you assume his results aren't possible without steroid usage. Besides, if he really was given steroids that often when he was young, it will become obvious as he gets older.
Anyway, steroids doesn't give you that kind of flexibility, so he's obviously trained hard to get where he's at, steroids or not.
This may help explain this individual's muscle mass:
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040626/fob5.asp
"Find the kid a sports agent. Researchers studying an unusually muscular tot have found that he has gene mutations similar to ones that produce abnormally brawny cattle and mice. Less-severe variations in the same gene may underlie the success of some athletes, the scientists speculate."
I believe the individual in the above article is NOT the same as the kid in the special because the ages don't match, but they may share the same mutation.
More links:
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=2823
http://www.mdausa.org/research/040624myostatin.html
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/volk/myostatin.htm
Not sure how reliable this is but:
http://www.musclephotos.com/myogene.html
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040626/fob5.asp
"Find the kid a sports agent. Researchers studying an unusually muscular tot have found that he has gene mutations similar to ones that produce abnormally brawny cattle and mice. Less-severe variations in the same gene may underlie the success of some athletes, the scientists speculate."
I believe the individual in the above article is NOT the same as the kid in the special because the ages don't match, but they may share the same mutation.
More links:
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=2823
http://www.mdausa.org/research/040624myostatin.html
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/volk/myostatin.htm
Not sure how reliable this is but:
http://www.musclephotos.com/myogene.html
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
After watching the special, I think it was just his insane fathers persistance and good genes. They did two tests for roids and found none and also checked his age to make sure he wasn't older than said.
The strange part is even after taking a year off he was still quite built although a bit fatter he still sported a 6er.
Good genes
The strange part is even after taking a year off he was still quite built although a bit fatter he still sported a 6er.
Good genes
Right my comps nakered so I havent been able to defend myself.
U guys are far too nice.... he was blatently on steds.
Im tryn not to get carried away here, so forgive my moan, its not directed at anyone.
1st Off, i know hes only 10 and he looks alrite for that age, what im sayn im sayn is he looks awful compared to his previous self.
2nd Im pretty sure they didnt test him when he was in his prime for steds, the dad wouldnt let him. And as far for 'his liver should be dead' or 'there should still be proof', no-one knows how steds affect a 8year old, the body may adapt at that age, or 'regenerate' itself many times faster than a 25year old. And why would he be on his death bed??? Millions of people take orals and r fine.
3rd Youve gota stop being so naive, no one and i mean no one has genetics like that. Pick any bodybuilder from reeves through arnie and haney to coleman, no one looked like that till much later in life and even then they were on steds. And have the best genetics of generations of bbers!!!
4th His dads amazing genetics??? Thers a difference between these amazing genetics I keep hearn about and someone that trains hard.
5th Il go over my point again.... as far his dad training him hard, this goes on everywhere. It goes on in developed countries to achieve sporting excellence (under better conditions than this lad was under) and in less developed countries as a way of getting out.
6th I know your all experts on HST which makes poeple naturally wana argue with me compared to u guys, but they asked every pro in the world about that kid and no-one (bare in mind there in the gym all day) had ever seen anyone like him. If he wasnt on gear, hed be looking like that all the time, i know your sayn he looks alrite, but he looks a different person, and as far as the 6pack, every skinny active kid in the world has a 6pack at that age. The second his dad and the protein shake went he lost it.
Ask a proper comp bber if they think thats achievable without gear.
Finally, forget wanting to argue with me, look at the kid in his prime and look at yourself. Then remind yourself he was 8, really think about that, if you do youl realise how amazing that is and how no matter how hard he trained he aint gona look like that naturally.
How long have you been training hard? and odds are he looked far better than you.
R u believing he was natural???
U guys are far too nice.... he was blatently on steds.
Im tryn not to get carried away here, so forgive my moan, its not directed at anyone.
1st Off, i know hes only 10 and he looks alrite for that age, what im sayn im sayn is he looks awful compared to his previous self.
2nd Im pretty sure they didnt test him when he was in his prime for steds, the dad wouldnt let him. And as far for 'his liver should be dead' or 'there should still be proof', no-one knows how steds affect a 8year old, the body may adapt at that age, or 'regenerate' itself many times faster than a 25year old. And why would he be on his death bed??? Millions of people take orals and r fine.
3rd Youve gota stop being so naive, no one and i mean no one has genetics like that. Pick any bodybuilder from reeves through arnie and haney to coleman, no one looked like that till much later in life and even then they were on steds. And have the best genetics of generations of bbers!!!
4th His dads amazing genetics??? Thers a difference between these amazing genetics I keep hearn about and someone that trains hard.
5th Il go over my point again.... as far his dad training him hard, this goes on everywhere. It goes on in developed countries to achieve sporting excellence (under better conditions than this lad was under) and in less developed countries as a way of getting out.
6th I know your all experts on HST which makes poeple naturally wana argue with me compared to u guys, but they asked every pro in the world about that kid and no-one (bare in mind there in the gym all day) had ever seen anyone like him. If he wasnt on gear, hed be looking like that all the time, i know your sayn he looks alrite, but he looks a different person, and as far as the 6pack, every skinny active kid in the world has a 6pack at that age. The second his dad and the protein shake went he lost it.
Ask a proper comp bber if they think thats achievable without gear.
Finally, forget wanting to argue with me, look at the kid in his prime and look at yourself. Then remind yourself he was 8, really think about that, if you do youl realise how amazing that is and how no matter how hard he trained he aint gona look like that naturally.
How long have you been training hard? and odds are he looked far better than you.
R u believing he was natural???
savagebeast
New Member
I'm not gonna step into the roids/no roids debate, I'll leave that to others. I just wanted to say that the kid is not THAT big. Sure, he's lean, toned, and he has a six pack, but I wouldn't say he's huge. Don't get me wrong, for an 8 year old, his physique and his strength are amazing. But he just can't compete with most older lifters. That's why when I hear things like
my response is that he may be leaner than me, but he's also a lot smaller. Same goes for most guys around my age (18) that I see in the gym.
My point is that for an 8 year old he's incredible, but he's nothing special when compared to older guys. To say that he can compete with older guys would be simply untrue.
One last thing: how many 8 year olds do you know who lift regularly? IMO, until little kids start lifting seriously, we really don't what they're capable of achieving naturally or with steroids.
[b said:
my response is that he may be leaner than me, but he's also a lot smaller. Same goes for most guys around my age (18) that I see in the gym.
My point is that for an 8 year old he's incredible, but he's nothing special when compared to older guys. To say that he can compete with older guys would be simply untrue.
One last thing: how many 8 year olds do you know who lift regularly? IMO, until little kids start lifting seriously, we really don't what they're capable of achieving naturally or with steroids.
Is it argue with Ian day or what???
Saying hes a rubbish bodybuilder is like saying that Arnie is rubbish, (ie im speaking relatively, hes unbelievable for his age) im not saying hed beat Ronnie Coleman.
As far as that quote, I think youl find that if that kid (in his prime) went up against 90% of the participants in this site on a BBing stage, the kid would win due to shape and definition. He wasnt 'lean', he was ripped to a degree which I would be willing to bet is more than most of those reading this post.
As regards to him not being massive, obviously, hes only 8. But what I would say was if you or I were to get down to his fat levels, we would lose lots of size (you can be 18stone with a bit of a 6pack but ud have to get down to 15stone or less to be as ripped as that). Likewise, if that kid (once again in his prime) were to specifically bulk, without his other cardio persuits he would look far bigger.
Finally, with regards to how many kids I know that train at that age, the answer is non. But I live in a normal westernised family, not some country where kids are trained in weightlifting from the age of 2 in order to get out of that lifestyle or in a family obsessed with sporting greatness. Point is, it does go on, and this kid was paraded infront of the top BBers and scientists in the world, all of whom said they had never seen anything like him and they all said he must be on steds (I realise the tests came out negative, but they were not conducted in his prime).
Anyway hes was still on steds
Saying hes a rubbish bodybuilder is like saying that Arnie is rubbish, (ie im speaking relatively, hes unbelievable for his age) im not saying hed beat Ronnie Coleman.
As far as that quote, I think youl find that if that kid (in his prime) went up against 90% of the participants in this site on a BBing stage, the kid would win due to shape and definition. He wasnt 'lean', he was ripped to a degree which I would be willing to bet is more than most of those reading this post.
As regards to him not being massive, obviously, hes only 8. But what I would say was if you or I were to get down to his fat levels, we would lose lots of size (you can be 18stone with a bit of a 6pack but ud have to get down to 15stone or less to be as ripped as that). Likewise, if that kid (once again in his prime) were to specifically bulk, without his other cardio persuits he would look far bigger.
Finally, with regards to how many kids I know that train at that age, the answer is non. But I live in a normal westernised family, not some country where kids are trained in weightlifting from the age of 2 in order to get out of that lifestyle or in a family obsessed with sporting greatness. Point is, it does go on, and this kid was paraded infront of the top BBers and scientists in the world, all of whom said they had never seen anything like him and they all said he must be on steds (I realise the tests came out negative, but they were not conducted in his prime).
Anyway hes was still on steds
Ian you are wacked my friend.
1. You have NO PROOF that hes on steds. None, zero, zip, nada.
2. The kid was NOT THAT BIG. He was just very lean with good muscle development for his age. You don't need steriods to get lean, at any age. The people on that special who were saying he was as developed as a pro were full of it. Even if you scaled up his size to an adult he would not be huge, just cut. Clarence Bass is bigger and leaner, even at 60.
3. I knew a kid when I was 8 or 9 who did not workout but had larger than normal muscles, he just wasn't that lean. If he had trained and watched his diet he probably would have looked like this kid.
4. Why are you so blind to the role of genetics? Those articles I've linked to show proof that changes to the myostatin gene DO result in larger and stronger NATURAL muscles. Did you read them?
Have a nice "argue with Ian day"
1. You have NO PROOF that hes on steds. None, zero, zip, nada.
2. The kid was NOT THAT BIG. He was just very lean with good muscle development for his age. You don't need steriods to get lean, at any age. The people on that special who were saying he was as developed as a pro were full of it. Even if you scaled up his size to an adult he would not be huge, just cut. Clarence Bass is bigger and leaner, even at 60.
3. I knew a kid when I was 8 or 9 who did not workout but had larger than normal muscles, he just wasn't that lean. If he had trained and watched his diet he probably would have looked like this kid.
4. Why are you so blind to the role of genetics? Those articles I've linked to show proof that changes to the myostatin gene DO result in larger and stronger NATURAL muscles. Did you read them?
Have a nice "argue with Ian day"
Lol, were gona have to agree to disagree.
Il go over my opinion of your points....
1. Fair ennough, but I do have eyes.
2. He was big (for his age). I cant understand how you people can say this kid wasnt any different to any other. He was 8years old!!! +as I said before there a difference between being lean and ripped. + I dont see how a 60 year old comes into it??? Arnies about that age, you saying we should compare the two of them??? I know loadsa guys in the gym that are big with 6 packs at that age, but theyv been training for 40years.
3.I cant comment on that, but I dont think hed look like that. The people on the show thought he was an exception. (as far you saying the people on the show were full of it, that sort of voids the whole thing, so weel forget that point).
4. As far as science goes, I have a problem.
I saw that article about a year ago on something like flex-online, right next to it will have been something about how cheese is the key to BBing (forgive the bit about cheese, its to get the point across, but I did read the article on something like flex a year back). Point is science can prove what it wants and until something becomes common knowledge and 100% proven, I believe what I see. How many times do you read an article telling you that chocolate kills and then the nxt day it cures cancer. A recent example is the 'drinking small amounts regulary is good for you' arguement, which has always been backed up by science. Last week a group of scientists said this was rubbish and its bad for you.
As far as me not appreciating genetics, half of my posts have been about the subject. I appreciate that they make a difference in a variety of ways, however I despise this 'put everything down to genetics culture'.
For example, I realise that Ronnie Coleman prob
has better genetics than me. However I doubt that when he was 16 he went down the gym, picked up a weight and the next day he was huge. Genetics is a variable in BBing, but it is one of many and nothing without food, drugs, training and rest.
The same applies to this kid, you could look at Ronnie and say genetics make him and believe the same about the kid. While I would say Ronnie has good genetics, but a hell of a lot of food, drugs, training and rest to go with it, and I would say the same about the kid!!!
There we go my friend,
Go easy on me
Il go over my opinion of your points....
1. Fair ennough, but I do have eyes.
2. He was big (for his age). I cant understand how you people can say this kid wasnt any different to any other. He was 8years old!!! +as I said before there a difference between being lean and ripped. + I dont see how a 60 year old comes into it??? Arnies about that age, you saying we should compare the two of them??? I know loadsa guys in the gym that are big with 6 packs at that age, but theyv been training for 40years.
3.I cant comment on that, but I dont think hed look like that. The people on the show thought he was an exception. (as far you saying the people on the show were full of it, that sort of voids the whole thing, so weel forget that point).
4. As far as science goes, I have a problem.
I saw that article about a year ago on something like flex-online, right next to it will have been something about how cheese is the key to BBing (forgive the bit about cheese, its to get the point across, but I did read the article on something like flex a year back). Point is science can prove what it wants and until something becomes common knowledge and 100% proven, I believe what I see. How many times do you read an article telling you that chocolate kills and then the nxt day it cures cancer. A recent example is the 'drinking small amounts regulary is good for you' arguement, which has always been backed up by science. Last week a group of scientists said this was rubbish and its bad for you.
As far as me not appreciating genetics, half of my posts have been about the subject. I appreciate that they make a difference in a variety of ways, however I despise this 'put everything down to genetics culture'.
For example, I realise that Ronnie Coleman prob
The same applies to this kid, you could look at Ronnie and say genetics make him and believe the same about the kid. While I would say Ronnie has good genetics, but a hell of a lot of food, drugs, training and rest to go with it, and I would say the same about the kid!!!
There we go my friend,
Go easy on me
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
Did he say cheese?[b said:
Ok gotta ask was it Manic's Blue Cheese or Biz's Cheddar Cheese Program? it makes a difference ya know
We all know Blue Cheese makes you ripped but Cheddar is da BOMB for mass.
Sorry old joke just couldn't resist
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
After going back and searching I have to say you are right Ian, Cheddar Volume Oscillation Theory of Size Enhancement for Elite Bodybuilders and Strength Trainers IV. a.k.a CVOTSEEBST IV, is a volume based program therefore it is for ripping not bulking, my BAD
Stop reading Flex, you'll have more faith in science
I agree the kid was big for his age, never said he wasn't, but other kids are big for their age, he wasn't extremely large. There is always a range. My point is that he was mostly extremely lean. A lean person will look bigger than someone who is less lean but the exact same size.
How about this. Take a pro BB and put him in clothing, stand him next to a normal size person, the pro BB will still look huge, even though you cant see how lean he is.
Take this kid, in clothing, put him next to other kids his age, he won't look much different. That's why I say those people on that special were full if it when they were saying he was as devolped as a pro.
I agree the kid was big for his age, never said he wasn't, but other kids are big for their age, he wasn't extremely large. There is always a range. My point is that he was mostly extremely lean. A lean person will look bigger than someone who is less lean but the exact same size.
How about this. Take a pro BB and put him in clothing, stand him next to a normal size person, the pro BB will still look huge, even though you cant see how lean he is.
Take this kid, in clothing, put him next to other kids his age, he won't look much different. That's why I say those people on that special were full if it when they were saying he was as devolped as a pro.
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
Speaking of genetics we have all seen the superbaby mutation. We also now know (scientific findings) there was a race of homo erectus, that was 6 to 7" taller and 40 to 50 lbs heavier on average than the normal homo erectus, with much more muscle mass but due to energy conservation needs and heat exchange potential (caring that mass) the larger group went extinct, but I doubt their genes completely disapeared, meaning that those people with larger frames can have a genetic predisposition, compound that with more adequate nutrition and it's no wonder that we are seeing the Klitchkos of today. Too bad they can't box worth a dang.