your results with HST...

[mikeh]

First, I would like to thank Bryan, Blade, andré, restless, vicious, SteveMcDermott, BIZ, Fausto, willie838, deadlifter, Aaron_F, Calkid, Keebler Elf, George, Firminator ... and anyone (I forgot) for helping me with HST.

Tonight, before I start my negatives (2nd cycle) I tested my personal best bench and deadlift. Results were:

Before HST After (2 cycle)
Bench 245 265
DL 255 275

Hell I thought I might lose strength, I'm one happy camper

I'll post measurements in 1 1/2 weeks.

Mikeh

 

[Claudio]

Gotta give this program its props. Although I only use HST for upper body, after about 4 cycles I have improved on L-Raises by 20lbs going from 45lbs for 5 to 65lbs for 5. That is a 30% increase!

Strength/size is up across the board usually by 5lbs per cycle.

This is only for upper body though. I have found that sticking to regular strength training has worked better for the lower body although I have messed up my SD by training the two parts of my body differently (see Is this still SD thread).

I have been dieting for 8 weeks and been surprised that I have still been able to increase my upper body strength although since I have a low setpoint dieting is mentally easy. Still, dropping 16lbs and maintaining or increasing upper body strength is very good. Arm size is down by 3/8 but strength is up which is a good sign.

All in all this program has been great except for lower body work whre it was still ok.

 

[tai4ji2x]

Quote[/b] (rishik12 @ Nov. 11 2002,12:59)]I didn't do the HST program as written, because I think a more orthodox program is available. Let me outline it.
First, HST argues that progressive resistance is key. Yet the current version of the HST workout does NOT increase weight each and every workout. It just does it week by week. My version has weight going up every workout, even if it's only 5 pounds.

rishik12:

read the articles on HST again. you'll see that you've apparently misinterpreted things. there is indeed a REQUIRED weight progression every workout, for every exercise. (unless the weight increment is too large, in which case you would repeat weight for only about one or two workouts.)

if i've read correctly, what you've in fact been doing is pretty far off from anything resembling HST.

 

[rishik12]

Quote[/b] (tai4ji2x @ Nov. 13 2002,5:53)]

Quote[/b] (rishik12 @ Nov. 11 2002,12:59)]I didn't do the HST program as written, because I think a more orthodox program is available. Let me outline it.
First, HST argues that progressive resistance is key. Yet the current version of the HST workout does NOT increase weight each and every workout. It just does it week by week. My version has weight going up every workout, even if it's only 5 pounds.

rishik12:
read the articles on HST again. you'll see that you've apparently misinterpreted things. there is indeed a REQUIRED weight progression every workout, for every exercise. (unless the weight increment is too large, in which case you would repeat weight for only about one or two workouts.)
if i've read correctly, what you've in fact been doing is pretty far off from anything resembling HST.

Hi - no.
I did the exact HST workout with 3 changes. Reread my post.
Change 1 - workout every 2 days, not MWF. That's not "pretty far off" from the HST program.
Change 2 - increase load progressively EACH workout. What you wrote is not true with HST as written. Maybe YOU should reread the articles. You might find a quote like "Progressively Adjusting reps to accommodate Progressive Load
HST suggests that you use 2 week blocks for each rep range. Why? It has nothing to do with adaptation. It is simply a way to accommodate the ever increasing load. Of course, you could adjust your reps every week (e.g. 15,12,10,8,5,etc), but this is more complicated and people might not understand." That' s on the official method website. Guess what? I adjust reps every workout - that guarantees increasing load. Even the authors of the HST method agree it is potentially a superior approach (read the quote again).
Change 3 - increase exercise types and decrease sets per exercise. This was never key to HST. Perhaps you didn't read "Sets will be limited to 1-2 per exercise. There is no problem with a single set per body part as long as it is a maximum effort and/or the rep tempo and form is strictly controlled or the weight is extremely heavy preventing further sets." I was able to limit sets per exercise more than in the official HST.
There's no doubt that there's very little difference between what I was doing and "official" HST. I just did a more complicated program that the authors would have done themselves. The reason they didn't? "Often times, in order to communicate an idea you must simplify things, even at the expense of perfection. If people can't understand it, they won't do it. What good would that do or anybody? Then, over time, people figure out for themselves the other possibilities that exist within the principles of hypertrophy."
That's on the official method too.

 

[vicious]

Actually, rishik12 is right -- his program did follow HST principles even though he tinkered around with the program. Good results BTW rishik12.

I wouldn't say, though, the aforementioned HST program was dumbed down per se. One problem is that everybody is a little different. Using a decending rep scheme may be impractical for exercises where there isn't enough load differentiation. Plus each person, due to fiber composition and overall neuromuscular efficiency, has different qualitative response for and from neural fatigue.

In other words, it's just easier to start from simple, which works for just about everybody, then tinker as you go to your body.

cheers,
Jules

 

[Bob Evans]

O.K. HSTers:
I just re-did my measurements and was pleasantly surprised, I thought I would share my progress with the group.
Background: I’m 45 years old have lifted off and on since I was 14 (more off than on). Last February I was coming off of 10 years of not lifting was fat and out of shape
January 2002: 5’9 205lbs (10 years of SD sustained deconditioning)
Feb-March started running (1-2 miles at first)
March started lifting (I was started benching the bar with out weight on it) and experienced a lot of joint pain
April found the HST site, and started HST.
In July I stopped running.
First measurements were taken in June, now in November I am at the end of my 10s in the middle of my forth cycle.
5’ 9”   Jan     June     November
Weight   205     185     200
Waist   38     34     35
Chest   ?     43     46.5
Arms       ? 14     15
Shoulders ?     49     52
Thigh   ?     21.5     24
Calves   ?     16     17
I am not carrying much more fat in November than in June I would guess my BF is in the 12% range. (you can kinda see my abs if the light is right)
So from June to November I gained about 15lbs of muscle. 4.5” in my chest, 1” in my arms, 3” of shoulder, 3.5” in thigh, and 1” of calve. Since my legs grow like weeds I have not trained them for the last two months.
I by no means have done HST correctly – I misjudged my RMs, and have had a hard time lifting sub maximally. And my eating was all wrong at first. I am better at it now but I do not count cals. I now use primer and driver before and after (with glucose added) And the joint pain I had at first has disappeared.
I lift at the University Gym (where I got my masters) In June the college kids thought I was a professor, now they ask me if I am a “Coach”. Thanks to Bryan, HST, and the forum members this “program” has been a lot of fun. Now if I could just gain 3” of height, become spiritually enlighten, and increase my bank account.
That’s it, Lift well,
Robert

 

[Blade]

Quote[/b] ]First, HST argues that progressive resistance is key. Yet the current version of the HST workout does NOT increase weight each and every workout. It just does it week by week. My version has weight going up every workout, even if it's only 5 pounds.

Secondly, HST argues that tissue anabolism takes place over a 36 hour period, hence workouts should be every two days. Yet they are not under the current version. I worked out every two days.

HST has you repeat number of reps in one or two-week blocks - the load still increases every workout.

The acute responses to training - increased protein synthesis, mRNA and ribosome activity, IGF-1 levels etc are elevated for 24-48hrs before returning to baseline. What you don't understand is that you can train the muscle before this time period is up - and elevate these responses even further. Waiting too long until the next workout would have you in a state where this balance is zero (or negative).

 

[morded]

I'm back

 

[scastille]

after first 2 weeks of 15's. Weight up from 167 to 170 and body fat slashed tremendously. Notice a tighter, more solid physique. Thanks for this miracle of science!!!!

 

[imported_hilg]

Hi everyone, great board and great site Bryan, this is my first post so a little background first; 48 yrs old, been training since the late 60s, started out reading old Strength and Health by Bob Hoffman and Muscular Development when John Grimk was editor for any of you that remember back that far. As a little sidelight here, I can remember back when I was in high school I use to go down to Chicago(grew up in the northern suburbs) to a little hole in the wall sporting goods store that sold weight training equipment and muscle mags, not many places in those days did, and the other reason that I would go there was that on weekends who was working behind the counter, none other that Sergio Oliva himself! I was in awe just looking at him, couldn't believe anyone could look like that, those arms sticking out of his sleeves, and that is when the iron bug bit. Anyway, have worked out regularly for the last seven years with mostly HIT, one or two sets, one or two times per week, Mentzer style and this spring even did some Sisco PFT. Got stronger, not much size, got some injuries, shoulders and partially torn quad but thought the "intensity" thing was the way to go. Also last October was off of training for about three months with disc surgery on by back, L-5, S-1 from an original injury that happened when I first started training, was aggravaited all these years and finally blew out from a wicked twisting incident(not while training) last October. Now a year later my back hasn't felt this good in years, although I will probably never squat again I am working my way back to doing deadlifts by lowering the pins in the power rack slowly but surely.
Anyway, I just finished by first eight week cyle of traditional HST. Did two sets on almost all exercises, 15, 10, 5, used linear progression of weights with no zig-zag with all exercises and came out pretty good, only bicep curls ended on the second to last day of 5s with only getting 4 reps and stopped the second set when rep speed slowed down so only got 12 reps on some of the 15s and 8 or 9 reps on some of the 10s, tried to stay away from failure on all sets, used the 5rm for the last two weeks with a third set of 15 with a weight that was from the middle of the previous two weeks of 15 and that is a killer after two hard sets of 5 then 15 reps even though the weight is not "heavy" doing that on all sets really is a tough full body workout. Results: starting weight 160 lbs -- finished yesterday at 168 lbs, right bicep started at 15 5/8 in -- finished at 16 5/8 in, waist stayed the same. Pretty good for someone my age and years of training. Also I have a small frame, wrists 6 1/4 in, and ankles 8 in so that makes the gains even more incredible. I was only sore for the first week of 15s but the muscles felt full and tight the whole cycle. Diet: I was pretty consistant about eating 6 meals a day but clean during the week and not so clean on weekends and some evenings, didn't really monitor calories but didn't try so stuff myself, fat gain comes really fast for me if I eat too many calories at this stage in life.
As many of you have said it is hard to get away from the train to failure, "intensity" is the key type mentality that is so prevalent in all the mags and training articles, in fact I really didn't beleive that doing sub-maximal sets not to failure could work at all but the science makes sense and as you can see it really works. Two weeks off after such good gains is going to be hard but essential to continuing progress and I don't think I am going to change much next cycle, except that I might stop the 15s and 10s one day short as Blade has done.
Thanks for all the hard work, Bryan and all the great replys all of you, sorry for such a long post.

George

 

[Brixtonian]

Well, I've now completed my first HST cycle - pretty much as outlined in the examples - and here are my results:
(All measurements taken 'cold&#39
28th Sept 26th Nov

Neck 17.5" 18.3"
Chest 48.5" 53.6"
R/bicep 18" 18.5"
L/bicep 18" 18.4"
Waist 44" 45.2"
R/thigh 28.4" 28.8"
L/thigh 27.2" 28.1"
R/calf 18" 18.75"
L/calf 17.75" 18.7"

Weight 266 lb 278 lb

So, although there's nothing exceptional here, I'm still happy enough, and I do appreciate that I need to do a few more cycles to get into this fully, and increase my results.

Biggest disappointment is with the lack of progress with my thighs, but, after 13yrs of heavy, superslow squatting, they probably need time to adjust !

My bodyfat level, pre-cycle was around 22%, and, although I haven't been able to measure it this side of the cycle, it appears not to have changed too much - hence the 1.2" increase on my waist.

I intend to start my next cycle, after a 13 day SD, with some 'tweaking' of exercises, and possibly the weights, as I seemed to hit failure generally on the 5th and 6th workout of each micro-cycle - which was probably too much - as I did notice CNS setting in.

Any advice/comments welcome.

Thanks.
Brix.

 

[vicious]

Terrific results mate. 12lbs in 8 weeks is excellent work. Assuming 1.2 inch waist gain is "all fat", it's still at least 5-7lbs lean body mass gain.

At 22.2% bodyfat, your body measurements will be a bit skewed low, as muscle takes up less space.

cheers,
Jules

 

[Brixtonian]

Thanks Vicious,
I have to admit tho, that some of my gains are probably 'muscle memory', as I have been bigger (in my early/mid 20's) and also, didn't train for around a month before starting this program.
I intend to stick with HST for at least another 3-4 cycles, as closely as I can, and hope that the progress will continue - with some changes, to improve my thighs.
I was pleased with improvement on my chest, as I actually only did one work set (plus one warm up) for chest - alternating incline press (smith machine) with decline/dips.
I also marked up an increase of just under 1/2 inch on each forearm, without any direct forearm work!
Problems I have include trying to consume enough calories daily, and, for the main, no training partner (here in UK, training styles are VERY backward, and anyone NOT doing 3 sets of 10 reps,for way too many exercises, is generally regarded as a misfit!!! )
Working shifts also didn't help, as I couldn't get to the gym at a regular time, but I did manage to get down there every Tues, Thurs & Sat..... at some point!
Still, I like, and am begining to understand the principles, and will certainly continue, and also encourage as many people as I can to try this system.
Brix.

 

[marc999]

hi guys,
i just finished my first cycle and am now in my SD fase, i didn't take any measurements, but i did weigh myself though and i started out at 75kg (165 lbs) and ended my cycle at 80.4 kg (176.9 lbs) . i'm a ectomorph, so almost no fat gains, except for the love-handles

. i took pictures this time (front/back), and will do so again at the end of my second cycle to see if there are notacible changes . i'm new to posting, but i've been reading all the advise you guys gave, so thanks a lot.

 

[scratch]

ok, i need some help. i am 42 yrs., 6 ft & 179. i have been doing edt & renegade training (with a lot of hit cardio) for the past 2 years. lots of volume. went from 20% bf to 12%. felt great.

have tried a varied version of gvt and saw increases in strength so when i saw this site & the principles of progressive overload i was intrigued.

i am at the end of my first cycle. about to go on sd. doing my second cycle of 5's. strength is up accross the board. fantastic. problem is i am accustomed to much higher volume and consequently my bf went throught the roof.

i gained 8 lbs in in my first cycle and most of it was fat! not happy.

furthermore because i am accustomed to much more volume it seems like i barely break a sweat during my 5's. i am accustomed to being drenched in sweat & sore as hell from edt. it just doesn't seem like i am getting anywhere except fatter.

i am committed to another cycle since most recommend & saw increases in strength so here is my workout:

lunges x 2
flat bench x 2
dead lifts x 2
inc. dumbells x 1
stiff legged deads x 1
dumbell rows x 2
shrugs x 2
cuban presses x 2
ez bar curls x 2
skull crushers x 2
calf raises x 2
abs x 2

30 minutes of walking on treadmill on off days.

help!

 

[Brixtonian]

Scratch,

I'm new to HST aswell, having just finished my first cycle too, but I'll give you my opinions, for what its worth.....

Firstly, excess bodyfat is (usually) nothing more than eating more calories than you burn.

I imagine that you are probably only estimating your daily calorie intake?
Now, while calorie counting is a pain in the butt, it is necessary, if you want to be accurate and get results.
The easiest solution I found, is to accurately record your calories (incl. protein) for a week, or so, and then you should have a better idea of what to eat for future reference.

Read/re-read the various articles on this forum, and website, for better info on this.

Also, remember that you will need roughly 1g of protein per 1lb of bwt - but no more, as excess of this will also end up being stored around your waistline, if you dont burn it off!!!

Secondly, your workout looks fine, including the treadmill on rest days.
I, personally, would put in squats or leg presses, in place of lunges, or at least alternate with them.
And group all your leg work togethor?

And if you're worried about 'sweating' during the 5's and negs; just superset each work set, with a very light set of 15's of the same exercise, and you will get a tremendous burn.... and some pain!!!

Good luck.
Brix.

 

[scratch]

thx Brix. I will try keeping the food log. i am pretty anal about what i eat & when but i will keep the food log.

i went to lunges because when squatting my back gives out before my legs.

loved the hst progam as my strength was up for the first time in a while. edt & renegade were a lot of volume that got my bf down, me looking lean & got my endurance up, however strength was down.

thx for the advice.

 

[joe6pack]

This is sort of embarrassing... but it's the truth. I'm in the middle of my first cycle... middle of the 10's. When I started I could only do about 5 or 6 dips... now I'm doing 12 in very good form.`That's good progress. I'm glad you guys stress the fact that in the gym it's not about ego. That helps my poor little psyche!

Tom

 

[Bif]

Finished my second cycle of HST. Don't think I made any progress at all. Weigh the same, measure about the same.

Cycle kind of sucked, got sick a couple of times, had a baby arrive, and plenty of work related stress. So I missed/rescheduled a couple of workouts in the middle of the cycle. Also skipped the last couple of workouts in the 5's as I was feeling burned out.

Diet could have been better as usual but wasn't too horrible. Mostly not getting to eat frequently enough.

Didn't make great progress on my first cycle either other than achieving better conditioning. I'm pretty much giving up on getting bigger naturally.

Going forward I'm just going to concentrate on conditioning as I think HST is great for this. To me this means plenty of exercises (1 set of 15-20 exercises), not pushing the weights up too high, and I'm going to drop the last two weeks of 5's/negs as my joints just don't appreciate it.

PS - You people who gain 10 lbs every cycle make me sick! =) Well congratulations if your gains are good.

 

[Ryno]

Why do some folks ...

1. come to a site
2. read-up on a training program
3. Decide to change everything to fit their preferences
4. make the program barely resemble the original program
5. say they're taining "the original way"

Why not just make up your own program?

I as because this is what happenned to HIT. YOu'd have people training "HIT style" using multiple sets with sub-maximal intensity. In reality, they were doing moderate intensity, moderate volume training, which is not HIT.

I'm asking in direct reference to training 2 days instead of 3. I saw a discussion of this on another board, and to me it didn't make sense. Based on what I've read here and compared to other stuff written by different styles of abbreviated training, the main aspect of HST that makes it different from other abbreviated programs is the increased frequency.

As I read the explanations, in the articles, they said that training more frequently (48 hours) is optimal. This idea is what HST is based on. So to decrease the frequency, would be to decrease the effectivess of the routine's goals, which is to increase hypertrophy.

If you decrease frequency, you're really using another form of abbreviated training that HST is suppossed to be superior than in terms of hypertrophy. So are you really training HST? What if you decrease the frequency to one day per week?

To me, if you're going to train with a program, then do it "as written". Don't change everything and still call it "The Original Program". I frequently see posts that say, "I'm training [fill-in-the-blank] style, but instead of *this*, I'm doing *that*. When you're supposed to *zig*, I'm going to *zag*. So, in reality, you're not even traning as outlined.

It's like saying "I'm playing baseball, but instead of a bat, I'm using a hockey stick. Instead of a baseball, I'm using a football. Instead of spikes, I'm using roller blades, and instead of playing on a baseball diamond, I'm playing on a asketball court." Are you really still playing baseball.
At the very least, if you're going to change something, then out of courtesy for the author of the program, at least say "I'm training semi-HST", or "quasi-HST" or whatever style you've ripped apart and made your own.