Cutting with HST

@Totentanz you may have hit the nail on the head there when you say about weekends as both @charr and @wungun mentioned diet not strict at weekends - the only way I find weight loss works is for the diet to remain consistent all week apart from family get togethers such as birthdays, Mothers Day etc for me I feel that carb manipulation works where the more weight I want to lose the more carbs I cut out (currently at approximately 300g per day to lose up to 0.5lbs per week and currently consuming calories at body weight x 16) and generally replace these with fat calories if weight loss stalls (if not intending to reduce overall calorie intake) rather than protein as keep protein circa body weight in lbs x 1.5.
 
I don't think it is as simple as that for everybody Totentanz. I have said many times that I measure all my portions and know exactly what I'm eating. The only time I don't is Saturday. I have a cheat day but I still make sure I am around the calories. Just not the ideal macronutrients.

I don't think that is the reason Mick. What I do on a saturday is I go as long as I can throughout the day (IF). Then I have 2 scoops of protein in water which is around 200 calories. I go as long as I can again. Then I have my cheat meal which is a takeaway. By leaving it as long as I can I won't be hungry then for the rest of the night. I also have some chocolate. I am pretty sure with my knowledge of nutrition that I am still around the 2000 calorie mark. Maybe under.

There must be a reason why someone like me is prone to only gaining fat and struggling to lose it. I am around 192 pounds now and can see I haven't gained any muscle in my 4 month HST bulk.

Like Wungun I am not doing the traditional bulk again. If I can get down to an ideal fat level. I'm going to go on a long lean gaining phase. As long as I can and see if that works. Although I actually planned to do that in the first place. I thought 3000 cals a day would be a lean gain.
 
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I have had 1 refeed day a week its probably too much...I used this day as a way to help prevent stalling my metabolism. I think my body sees that as an opportunity to store fat for the upcoming 6 day fast.
I don't mind the extra cardio/plyo work. I'm almost 45 years old and I should be considering my health...more so than just LOOKING healthy.
And this will give me better overall nutrition with allowing me a few more calories a day.
 
charr said:
I don't think it is as simple as that for everybody Totentanz.
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It doesn't matter that you don't think it is that simple. Science proves that in clinically controlled settings, it IS that simple. When all factors are controlled clinically, people will always lose weight when underfed.
 
My experience tells me otherwise. In theory I should be able to lose weight on 2500 calories a day. I have struggled to lose weight on 1600
 
If everyone did live in a clinical setting then we would know for sure what the actual calorie intake is, including any misc calories from beverages or any of the other sources that people tend to forget have calories, and everyone would lose weight when they were underfed. Anecdotal experience, just like eyewitness testimony and everything else that depends on self-reporting, is horrendously unreliable compared to actual controlled science.

Point is... something isn't right somewhere along those lines and until you figure out what it is, you will continue to struggle.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that until you've lost at least ten pounds, there is no point in even thinking about what you've lost yet. When people say "well, I've lost three pounds already" what that actually means is they haven't really done anything yet. Any loss under ten pounds is irrelevant when beginning a diet. Your weight can easily fluctuate by ten pounds or more without actual "real" weight loss. On the flip side, if you aren't dropping a good five pounds your first week then you aren't adhering to your diet or your diet is just crappy. When starting a real diet that you actually adhere to, while also lifting properly and frequently enough, you'll easily lose five pounds of water and carbs the first week. If you don't, you aren't doing one of the things you are supposed to.
 
Totentanz said:
If you really think you can do 2 week cycles of bulking and cutting, then read into the ABCDE diet and see why that will never work unless you use drugs.

I don't understand how you guys have so much trouble cutting. It's pretty simple. We have scientific proof in controlled conditions that people always lose weight when they eat fewer calories than their body needs to maintain weight. People who are "undereating" and not losing weight are usually cheating on their diet and just won't admit it. Or they take a day or two off from the diet every week and eat enough on those days to make their net weekly calories equal or greater to their maintenance requirements for the entire week.

Cutting successfully requires just a few things:
1. Lift weights a few times a week
2. Eat less than maintenance every day
3. Wait for several months until you are at the correct weight

Stop looking for a quick fix and put in the required time, while filling the requirements of 1 and 2.
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Couldn't agree more.


Starving kids in Africa look that way for a reason ...
 
Jester said:
Couldn't agree more.


Starving kids in Africa look that way for a reason ...
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And just in case anyone thinks the comment about starving kids in Africa is just a cheap shot, think again. Evolutionary biology is pretty clear about how adaptations work. There is zero chance that overweight people in first world countries have developed a widespread mutation that prevents weight loss in a starvation state (or even causes weight gain while starving) while the people down there dying in droves from starvation haven't managed that adaptation. Since it would greatly improve survival of folks in third world countries, clearly you would see the adaptation emerge in that sort of population rather than in the first world where obesity leads to several health risks which have a measurable impact on long term survivability.

You are not special, you don't somehow work by different rules than the rest of reality. If you can't lose weight, then you aren't cutting calories enough. If you are 200 lbs and only eating (or drinking) 1200 calories a day but aren't losing weight, then you aren't being truthful about your calorie intake.

I've had more than a couple people I was attempting to help with diet who all failed to lose weight on the diet I designed. Turned out they were drinking soda or other calorie containing drinks. I had one person who was adhering to the diet almost perfectly but wasn't losing weight and insisted she wasn't drinking sugary drinks. Turned out that she was having a few servings of alcohol daily and somehow missed the memo that alcohol is a macronutrient that contains calories. When dieting, it is important to be honest with yourself and with the people you ask for help. When asked about intake, you have to disclose everything. Everything.
 
I log my calories daily...I don't cheat anything. And I certainly don't drink cola. I adhere to my calories on weekends, but not CBL on weekends, and I have a refeed on Thursdays.
Last summer I was steadily upping my calories and not gaining weight. Cold Canadian winters and lack of day light maybe have an effect on metabolism. Lol
I wish there was a gauge for measuribg metabolism because I think mine is tanked.
Like I said, I'm gonna kickstart my burning with some Insanity while working on my cardio health (Also quit smoking last fall).
There isn't ANYONE in a first world country that isn't starting like they are in parts of Africa. That comment is just stupid.
For American's, starving to them is not supersizing there fukking McDonald's!! Of course anyone who's surviving on insects or a handful of rice a day is gonna lose all fat and all muscle and eventually the body will start consuming it's own organs.
 
And besides, I'd rather suffer thru hiit workouts than cut anymore calories.
I am NOT giving up carbs and to keep adequate protein and stay in a deficient, my intake will be higher than just a strict cutter like Totz.
My carbs are already down from 300ish to 100ish and that's noticeable in the workouts.
 
All I can say Totentanz is I am 100% sticking to the calories I say I'm eating. When I went down to about 1400 calories. My weight did start going down. But I felt ill in the gym so it was no good. I didn't have success on 2000 cals a day. Or 1600. Though strangely I seem to be having some success using the biorhythm diet at 2000 cals a day so I'm going to stick with it until I am sure

I have never lost 5lb in a week regardless of what the actual loss is. Even when I first started the diet when I was 206 lb. It took 3 weeks before I saw a change. Then I lost the first 6 pounds quite quickly. This is how things seem to work with me. I seem to have to stick something out for a few week then seem to drop weight over night.

You might not believe me. But I weigh everything to the gram. Count every calorie. Use myfitnesspal. The only way things can be wrong is if my scales are wrong and I'm pretty sure they aren't.

I also only drink water. I have pretty much never drank alcohol. I don't like it. I switched from sugary soda's to water when i was about 18 and now it is my preferred drink. I buy packs of volvic each week. I easily drink between 3 and 5 litres a day. Thats just my natural thirst. The only other liquid I consume is milk from time to time. And again this is measured.
 
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If you can't perform the same at the gym on your diet, then cut back the gym instead of cutting back the diet.

A conscious choice needs to be made and adhered to. Do diet first and gym focus later, or reverse. You will never, ever be able to outwork the ktichen, so don't try and maintain strength and size whilst dieting.
 
charr said:
All I can say Totentanz is I am 100% sticking to the calories I say I'm eating. When I went down to about 1400 calories. My weight did start going down. But I felt ill in the gym so it was no good. I didn't have success on 2000 cals a day. Or 1600. Though strangely I seem to be having some success using the biorhythm diet at 2000 cals a day so I'm going to stick with it until I am sure

I have never lost 5lb in a week regardless of what the actual loss is. Even when I first started the diet when I was 206 lb. It took 3 weeks before I saw a change. Then I lost the first 6 pounds quite quickly. This is how things seem to work with me. I seem to have to stick something out for a few week then seem to drop weight over night.

You might not believe me. But I weigh everything to the gram. Count every calorie. Use myfitnesspal. The only way things can be wrong is if my scales are wrong and I'm pretty sure they aren't.

I also only drink water. I have pretty much never drank alcohol. I don't like it. I switched from sugary soda's to water when i was about 18 and now it is my preferred drink. I buy packs of volvic each week. I easily drink between 3 and 5 litres a day. Thats just my natural thirst. The only other liquid I consume is milk from time to time. And again this is measured.
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@charr, have you been taking caliper readings to ascertain body fat, if so when you lose weight is it LBM of fat?

Also could IF be a problem (I could get shot down in flames here), maybe you need to eat breakfast on waking to kick start your metabolism!! just a thought
 
I haven't used calipers Mick. I did buy some but just can't seem to get the readings right. It's always different. I can't seem to pinch next to the belly button.

IF could be a problem. The strange thing is though I used IF with 2000 cals a day to get down to 182 pounds in 2013. I was losing a pound a week. But even then 196 (14 stone) was a sticking point for me. As it seemed to be this time. Don't know why.

At the minute the biorhythm diet seems to be working. After another 2 weeks I should know for definite.

Jester. At 2000 calories my strength has dropped which I have accepted. At 1400 calories though. I just felt i'll so decided not to stay with that
 
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Guys. One or both of your numbers is wrong. Either your calories in and/or your calories out. That is the problem. Simple as that.
 
charr said:
haven't used calipers Mick. I did buy some but just can't seem to get the readings right. It's always different. I can't seem to pinch next to the belly button.
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I wouldn't worry too much the about not taking the measurement at the naval and therefore not keeping an actual record of body fat, you can take the measurements from the other locations say 4, 5 or 6 or however many points you want to take but just keep a record of the total amount in mm, as long as you take measurements in the same place every time you can assume that if the total measurements are going down then you are losing fat as well.

charr said:
At the minute the biorhythm diet seems to be working. After another 2 weeks I should know for definite.
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I used the biorhythm diet at the latter end (Aug to Oct) of last year initially to try to gain weight attempting to minimise the fat gain but ended up maintaining weight at a higher calorie intake (average of 2950 calories per day (BW x 16.5) with average macros of C @ 30%, P @ 45% and F@25%) that resulted in an approximate increase in LBM of 3.6 lbs and reduction in fat mass of 2.8 lbs (started at 177.6 ended at 178.4 lbs).
 
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charr said:
I have never lost 5lb in a week regardless of what the actual loss is. Even when I first started the diet when I was 206 lb. It took 3 weeks before I saw a change. Then I lost the first 6 pounds quite quickly. This is how things seem to work with me. I seem to have to stick something out for a few week then seem to drop weight over night.
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@charr,

You may not be on your own there, I used to be like that where I would have a holiday or over Xmas and do all the things you are supposed to do (eat, drink and be merry) and afterwards only be a 1 lb or 2 heavier then two weeks later I would suddenly put another 5 or 6 lbs then I would start running and lose nothing for a couple of weeks and then the weight would start to fall off me.
 
Old and Grey said:
Guys. One or both of your numbers is wrong. Either your calories in and/or your calories out. That is the problem. Simple as that.
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There is a common denominator with @charr and @wungun and that is they both use IF (@charr has said that in this thread and @wungun was doing IF at the end of last year so have assumed he still is), I know a lot of people are successful with IF but I would have thought it would be better on a weight loss programme to kick start the metabolism early in the day and eating a breakfast, but maybe I get away with a far higher calorie intake than they are as training 6 days a week.
 
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