Kitad
New Member
Have you gained weight? Have you measured if you lost BF?
Cutting with HST
- Thread starter charr
- Start date
Have you gained weight? Have you measured if you lost BF?
Don't confuse muscle size and strength. Don't over-think. Listen to your body and then design a program based on your goals. Finally, we are not all created equal but we all can improve on what we were born with. Be happy with that.
You gained a lot of fat because you ate too much.
You can't "see" anything, to be brutally honest. If you gained so much fat, there's no way of knowing what muscle you did or did not gain.
My advice would be to stop trying to analyse things yourself and use actual measurements; scales and calipers. Unless and until you do that, then you're always flying blind and will literally have no idea what you're talking about.
What are your current 1 and 5 rep maxes? HST is not an ideal novice program, and it might be that a linear-model is better suited for you.
TangoDown
Member
He said he was benching 100kg x 10 a few weeks ago.
Charr, how tall are you? Because if you're putting up 100kg x 10, you could theoretically put up anywhere between 280lb - 300lb x 1. Unless you're short like me I don't see how you could be anywhere close to 22% body fat @ a bw of 200lb.
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leonardopm
Member
Completely agree. He gotta be very short to accomplish that PR at only 160 lbs of LBM.
Charr, the calipers can be tricky but you have to learn how to use them. Without it you won't never have a precise idea of your muscular growth.
Why don't you post here the evolution of your 10 RM on the major lifts? Just as an
exercise.
leonardopm
Member
Ok, that's almost my height. That being said, I don't see how he could lift 100kg x 10 with 160 lbs of LBM. I have almost 190 lbs of LBM and I'm currently lifting 86kg for 5 reps.
Unless he has arms shorter than a T-rex I would bet his BF % is lower than 20%.
mickc1965
Well-Known Member
I would say it is possible as I am 5' 10" at 178 lbs at circa 10% (calipers have me nearer 7% but I can currently only see outline of abs) so approx 160 lbs of lbm (maybe slightly lower) and can flat bench 92.5 kgs for 10, back in the day (nearly 20 years ago) when I was nearer to charr's current age I could bench 110 Kgs for 10+, 125 for 5 and 142.5 for a single at 190 - 196 lbs (how life is cruel with a 15 year lay off) at around 10 - 12%.
Be interesting to see a T Rex benching, agree his body fat levels are probably lower, he could well have a case of body dysmorphia where he thinks he is fatter than he is!!!! charr you mention that your trousers feel tight etc, what is your waist size v your chest, neck etc?
Message for charr, just keep plugging away it will happen for you, start a training log detailing your exercises, number of sets / reps (how long do you rest between sets) and see what the general consensus is from the HST experts on this forum, it has worked for them I am sure as otherwise they would be elsewhere on another forum etc. I haven't seen another forum where the likes of Totentanz, Old and Grey, Jester, Lol, Rihad etc give detailed help like they do without being offensive, trust them. You may have to tweak the system a bit to get it work for you but in general the progressive loads etc do work.
Be interesting to see a T Rex benching, agree his body fat levels are probably lower, he could well have a case of body dysmorphia where he thinks he is fatter than he is!!!! charr you mention that your trousers feel tight etc, what is your waist size v your chest, neck etc?
Message for charr, just keep plugging away it will happen for you, start a training log detailing your exercises, number of sets / reps (how long do you rest between sets) and see what the general consensus is from the HST experts on this forum, it has worked for them I am sure as otherwise they would be elsewhere on another forum etc. I haven't seen another forum where the likes of Totentanz, Old and Grey, Jester, Lol, Rihad etc give detailed help like they do without being offensive, trust them. You may have to tweak the system a bit to get it work for you but in general the progressive loads etc do work.
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gbglifter
Member
Take a pic and post it here so we can stop debating as to if youre fat or not. Get that out of the way so all your energy can be directed towards hypertrophy.
Im not sure how long youve been lifting. Ive been lifting for about 15 years, with pause for parenthood and the ocassional injury, and its only really been the last few years where Ive felt like one of the strongest/pumped/best bodies in the gym. It takes fricking years to get where you want to be. Id like another few kgs of LBM but its gonna take me another couple of yera realiatically.
Im not sure how long youve been lifting. Ive been lifting for about 15 years, with pause for parenthood and the ocassional injury, and its only really been the last few years where Ive felt like one of the strongest/pumped/best bodies in the gym. It takes fricking years to get where you want to be. Id like another few kgs of LBM but its gonna take me another couple of yera realiatically.
I'll tell you again, carb backloading! It's good that you're not losing muscle (as best as you can tell) on a cut... But for God sakes, don't cut carbs, or you will stagnate and not progress with strength.
During your 3 cut cycles, were you able to steadily increase your lifts each cycle on the big compound moves? If the answer is no, EVEN on a cut, you're diet needs to change. That, or you plateaued and you need to break thru that... And again, it's diet. Personally, CB has been the answer for me.
A lot of lifters think you need to get fat while gaining muscle, and to me, it makes no sense at all, and I don't believe it.
If you're eating 1.5g of protein per lbs, and enough carbs (again, 1.5g to 2g), and you time your intake optimally, that should be everything your muscles need (don't forget essential fats) .
If your body is storing fat on your "gain", those are calories your body didn't use for growth! Or any fucking thing else except to make you fat, and work harder at cutting. Whether it be from fat you ate, protien or carbs, your body has the ability to convert and store it as fat... And if it's doing that, you're spending money on food you didn't need.
That's how I see it anyway, and my recent results have pretty much proved it, in my case.
I'm gaining muscle (more noticeable in some areas more than others) and I've been on a deficit... And I'm the most fat-free I have ever been.
If you told me in the 6 months ago, for example, I'd be curling 95lbs, or shoulder pressing 100lbs, I would of told you where to go!
Both those lifts, I was stuck at 75lbs and 80lbs less than a year ago... I think that is awesome progress! Bench PR has gone up, deads, weighted pull up's (BW + 70lbs), etc...
I never would of thought diet, and in particular, carb timing, would make such a difference. Do that, and get your daily protein and look out!
During your 3 cut cycles, were you able to steadily increase your lifts each cycle on the big compound moves? If the answer is no, EVEN on a cut, you're diet needs to change. That, or you plateaued and you need to break thru that... And again, it's diet. Personally, CB has been the answer for me.
A lot of lifters think you need to get fat while gaining muscle, and to me, it makes no sense at all, and I don't believe it.
If you're eating 1.5g of protein per lbs, and enough carbs (again, 1.5g to 2g), and you time your intake optimally, that should be everything your muscles need (don't forget essential fats) .
If your body is storing fat on your "gain", those are calories your body didn't use for growth! Or any fucking thing else except to make you fat, and work harder at cutting. Whether it be from fat you ate, protien or carbs, your body has the ability to convert and store it as fat... And if it's doing that, you're spending money on food you didn't need.
That's how I see it anyway, and my recent results have pretty much proved it, in my case.
I'm gaining muscle (more noticeable in some areas more than others) and I've been on a deficit... And I'm the most fat-free I have ever been.
If you told me in the 6 months ago, for example, I'd be curling 95lbs, or shoulder pressing 100lbs, I would of told you where to go!
Both those lifts, I was stuck at 75lbs and 80lbs less than a year ago... I think that is awesome progress! Bench PR has gone up, deads, weighted pull up's (BW + 70lbs), etc...
I never would of thought diet, and in particular, carb timing, would make such a difference. Do that, and get your daily protein and look out!
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Wungun. I suspect you may be somewhere in the enviable newbie "hole" where anything you eat turns to what looks like muscle with proper training. Typically carbs, and especially simple carbs, are the root cause of obesity. Your suggestion of 400 grams of carbs (1600 calories) for a 200 pound lifter on a cut would not typically work very well. However, all input is welcome here as one eventually has to individualize their own program and everyone in unique. Most people cut best with protein and fats.
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Admittedly, 400g is quite a bit... I'm down to 160lbs and I target 200+g of carbs per day... If a 200lbs'er is eating 3000+ cal a day, 1400-1600 cal in carbs is right in the ballpark.
MY carbs are simple... Bananas, white rice, potatoes, pancakes/waffles, artificial syrup, white bread, you name it!
It's all in the timing obviously. If you pound down those carbs as soon as you get outta bed, it'll be trouble. Lol
It isn't carbs that make you fat... It's calories... You should know this O&G.
Maybe I should post a pic of where I'm at right now.... Lol. It's got me pretty amazed!
I will never do keto/low carb ever again...
MY carbs are simple... Bananas, white rice, potatoes, pancakes/waffles, artificial syrup, white bread, you name it!
It's all in the timing obviously. If you pound down those carbs as soon as you get outta bed, it'll be trouble. Lol
It isn't carbs that make you fat... It's calories... You should know this O&G.
Maybe I should post a pic of where I'm at right now.... Lol. It's got me pretty amazed!
I will never do keto/low carb ever again...
Mt bad! I'm going to rush out and buy 25 loaves of white bread and start my diet. 
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Leonardo.
I probably have about 170 pounds of lean mass. I still can't understand how to create hypertrophy. It's impressive that you have 190 pounds of lean mass at your strength levels. Not sure how you have achieved that.
Mick.
I'll have to take some measurements but they don't tell the full story. My waist is probably between 32 and 34 inch. The main problem is the fat I store around hips, butt, thighs and lower belly. It doesn't seem to shift no matter what I do and makes me look out of proportion. Most men don't store fat in these area's the way I do no matter how much they eat.
gbglifter.
I'm not really into taking pic's and don't really want them on message boards. I've been lifting consistently for about 13 years now. I'm sure I had more muscle doing 1 bodypart per week on a four day split when I was younger. I used to weigh 14 stone 7 pounds and while I have never been lean I used to fit in all my pants. Does it really take a few years to put o a few KG of muscle? How do you perform your reps gbglifter? And what size increments are you using for HST? I've been using 5lb's.
Wungun
My carbs are around 200g a day on this diet. I don't know much about carb back loading but I do intermittent fasting in which I am eating only twice a day (first meal 5pm) so I assume my carbs are pretty well timed.
Jester.
I've never done 1 rep max training or tested them so not sure on that. My five rep maxes at the end of my third HST gaining cycle are below.
Bench press - 107.5kg (got 4 reps with 110)
Pendlay row - 93kg
Overhead press - 75.5kg
Wide grip pull up - bw + 10kg
Dip - bw + 45kg
Close grip pull up - bw + 15kg
Chins - bw + 10kg
Squat - 105.5 kg
Deadlift 148kg
My squat and deadlift are two exercises I have struggled to get stronger in. My squat is still lower than my bench and I have been trying for 3 years to get it past it. I always seem to be stuck around the 100kg
I probably have about 170 pounds of lean mass. I still can't understand how to create hypertrophy. It's impressive that you have 190 pounds of lean mass at your strength levels. Not sure how you have achieved that.
Mick.
I'll have to take some measurements but they don't tell the full story. My waist is probably between 32 and 34 inch. The main problem is the fat I store around hips, butt, thighs and lower belly. It doesn't seem to shift no matter what I do and makes me look out of proportion. Most men don't store fat in these area's the way I do no matter how much they eat.
gbglifter.
I'm not really into taking pic's and don't really want them on message boards. I've been lifting consistently for about 13 years now. I'm sure I had more muscle doing 1 bodypart per week on a four day split when I was younger. I used to weigh 14 stone 7 pounds and while I have never been lean I used to fit in all my pants. Does it really take a few years to put o a few KG of muscle? How do you perform your reps gbglifter? And what size increments are you using for HST? I've been using 5lb's.
Wungun
My carbs are around 200g a day on this diet. I don't know much about carb back loading but I do intermittent fasting in which I am eating only twice a day (first meal 5pm) so I assume my carbs are pretty well timed.
Jester.
I've never done 1 rep max training or tested them so not sure on that. My five rep maxes at the end of my third HST gaining cycle are below.
Bench press - 107.5kg (got 4 reps with 110)
Pendlay row - 93kg
Overhead press - 75.5kg
Wide grip pull up - bw + 10kg
Dip - bw + 45kg
Close grip pull up - bw + 15kg
Chins - bw + 10kg
Squat - 105.5 kg
Deadlift 148kg
My squat and deadlift are two exercises I have struggled to get stronger in. My squat is still lower than my bench and I have been trying for 3 years to get it past it. I always seem to be stuck around the 100kg
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leonardopm
Member
Charr,
So you telling I'm weak for my size? Maybe (lol).
Anyway, some considerations apply. Bone structure, for instance. I have a heavy structure. Thick bones, big hands and feet. That could explain in certain level my weight/strength ratio. Anyway I still think you have big lifts for your weight and size. I can get your level only at chins / pull-ups. A few weeks ago a personal trainer from my neighbor told me his DL load was lower than mine and he's clearly bigger than me, weighing around 230. How to explain that?
So you telling I'm weak for my size? Maybe (lol).
Anyway, some considerations apply. Bone structure, for instance. I have a heavy structure. Thick bones, big hands and feet. That could explain in certain level my weight/strength ratio. Anyway I still think you have big lifts for your weight and size. I can get your level only at chins / pull-ups. A few weeks ago a personal trainer from my neighbor told me his DL load was lower than mine and he's clearly bigger than me, weighing around 230. How to explain that?
Haha. I mean no offense. We are all putting mainly size first here.
I'm not sure about that guy. Maybe strength really isn't related to size. I know a guy at the gym who is natural and has alot of muscle for his size. He mainly does high volume and high reps. On the flip side there is a guy at our gym who is insanely strong. His 1 rep deadlift is 300kg. He can deadlift 220kg (5 plates a side) for 10 reps while standing on a board. But he doesn't have the muscle size that his strength would suggest.
There are other young lads in the gym who can squat 140kg * 5 and deadlift 220kg who you wouldn't think even went to the gym if you saw them out and about. So how do we cause muscles to grow?
I'm not sure about that guy. Maybe strength really isn't related to size. I know a guy at the gym who is natural and has alot of muscle for his size. He mainly does high volume and high reps. On the flip side there is a guy at our gym who is insanely strong. His 1 rep deadlift is 300kg. He can deadlift 220kg (5 plates a side) for 10 reps while standing on a board. But he doesn't have the muscle size that his strength would suggest.
There are other young lads in the gym who can squat 140kg * 5 and deadlift 220kg who you wouldn't think even went to the gym if you saw them out and about. So how do we cause muscles to grow?
You're about 6 feet tall with a waist size around 32-34 inches? If that is all correct, then you are not fat. I'm around 6 feet tall (okay, more like 6'1 or 6'2) and if I were around 20% bodyfat, which you've claimed to be, then I would have a 36-38 inch waist. All this fat business is just in your head. You are clearly sabotaging yourself by letting yourself get psyched out over nothing.