Cutting with HST

Yup, got that... Thanks. Had to read back a page or two. Lol
I see he's about 200g of carbs a day...

Charr, during the day, is there any calories consumed at all before 5pm? I think ideally, some small amounts of protein and healthy fats (no carbs) might help with metabolism and help muscle repair/growth.
I once tried 0 calories during the day before woekout/backload, but found I could easily handle 300-500 calories of protein and fat in a couple of snacks prior... And still ate the SAME amount of calories in the afternoon and still dropped 1lbs a week.
 
Many, many studies show otherwise...
If, on the other hand, you're referring to 7 or 8 small meals a day, then yeah, that doesn't help with anything.
I'd challenge anyone here to try backloading... You can find the book online (Torrents), and see for yourself! To me, it's revolutionary in the same way as when I stumbled upon HST! And if you do daily workouts (A/B splits), have a busy career and love to eat all the good stuff, then it's the perfect diet to go with HST. (end of rant... And don't mean to Jack the thread...)
I'm like any other skeptically person wh3n it comes to workout and diet programs... That's why I had to decide for myself. Don't just shoot it down out of ignorance, stubbornness or skeptisism... That's just stupidity.
 
I've gotten cut up on eating calories all in one big four hour long binge with 0 calories the rest of the day and I've gotten cut up eating the calories spread throughout the day. It is the deficit that is the primary cause of fat loss.
 
wungun said:
Many, many studies show otherwise...
If, on the other hand, you're referring to 7 or 8 small meals a day, then yeah, that doesn't help with anything.
I'd challenge anyone here to try backloading... You can find the book online (Torrents), and see for yourself! To me, it's revolutionary in the same way as when I stumbled upon HST! And if you do daily workouts (A/B splits), have a busy career and love to eat all the good stuff, then it's the perfect diet to go with HST. (end of rant... And don't mean to Jack the thread...)
I'm like any other skeptically person wh3n it comes to workout and diet programs... That's why I had to decide for myself. Don't just shoot it down out of ignorance, stubbornness or skeptisism... That's just stupidity.
Click to expand...

Please cite the studies.

It's being shot down because science says differently. Don't confuse performance with effectiveness of meal timing relating to weight gain/loss.

Meal timing will absolutely affect athletic performance. That is not in dispute. Considering that hormones (i.e. the chemicals that are responsible for building muscle) operate on a timeline of days and weeks, I'll be incredibly surprised if a peer reviewed study can prove that timing within a day statistically proves that muscle building or fat loss is varied by that meal timing (calories being equal of course).

The only caveat I would make is that improving athletic performance by way of optimising meal intake may improve weight goals (bigger, smaller etc.) over an extended period of time (months and years). i.e. if I can lift more load and necessary volume, and therefore -get stronger because my muscles are carb-loaded - compared to depleted, or because my stomach isn't full and I don't feel like puking etc. - applying this over 6 months vs lifting depleted and with a full stomach, I would expect better progress in that sense. Minimal difference, but probably statistically significant despite my body's adaptation.
 
All the studies are cited in the book... And there are a lot (on the various principles)
T-Antz, I hear ya... Deficit is key, if you want to cut, no matter what the diet. The claims with backloading is you don't count calories, you just fill your facehole at the right time (basically)... That IS admittedly, a bit of a stretch. For me, if I start chowing at 6pm, I'm hard pressed to get 2500 calories from then until bedtime, eating good foods.
I started backloading running a deficit at around 1700 to 1800 Cal's. I gradually increased my intake to 2500 to 2700 and kept seeing the same losses... Which I have no way of explaining. I'm thinking that is still slightly below maintenance (150lbs LBM at 6'1"..?)
For the two styles of diet you mentioned, don't think of daily calories so much but look at workout performance. You will get the same fat losses on both diets, no doubt, but I too have tried a deficit with 7 meals a day... I've tried low carb... I've tried daily cardio...
7 small meals a day, I view this as your body having steady fuel all day. Very limited fat burning going on. Your body is using all the meal carbs as you feed it, all day long... You workout with whatever strength you can muster, and have 2 or 3 small spaced out meals afterwards, not really replenishing your carb stores.
Backloading, you're basically fasting from the middle of the night to early afternoon... Small amounts of protein and fats only, keeping your body in a keto state. Because you back loaded the night before, your muscles are FULL of glucose and strength is up (just have a look at yourself in the mirror when you get outta bed... Muscles jacked, skin tight, vascular and defined..!) . You have a great workout and refuel with high glycemic carbs afterwards (late afternoon, your insulin sensitivity is low) and your muscles take up all the carbs... Then you shovel in the protein... You sleep well, you have energy and focus the next day...
It's incredible!!
On my off days, I've reverted back to a normal diet, and paid for it... I've had a bagel and cream cheese for breakfast, and literally 15 minutes later, I crash! I just want to fall asleep! And the rest of the day, I get hungry and I'm burned out.
 
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Jester... There is a well known, albeit somewhat controversy study on carb timing and muscle retenrion/fat loss studied on Israeli police. Google should be able to pull that up.
Performance is the OTHER benefit of backloading... It isn't just about body re composition, and this is obviously if you've ever done a low carb Atkins diet while pounding out your 5rm cycle!
There are studies cited that show that there IS a daily hormonal cycle (insulin, GH, testosterone) and backloading effectively compliments this daily cycle.
A 6 month time line is realistic... I totally agree. Nothing with the human body happens "over night". I've been backloading for roughly 2 cycles... Roughly because, for the first time in, we'll since the 2nd year of my lifting (1st year gains progress are a given), I've had impressive strength gains, hitting new PR's on all my lifts and showing noticable muscle gains in key areas. And when I say 2 cycles, I basically went into my 5rm's and kept going for 4 weeks afterwards, then restarted my 10rms and back into the 5's without an SD and kept adding on the weight.
I'm finally taking an SD now as my joints/shoulders and some small strains are stopping me (weighted dips are hard on my old shoulders).
So I'm challenging you two!
On your next cycle, do backloading... Try it for just 1 cycle. I can bet you'll not stop after one!
From strictly a motivational stand point, there isn't anything better... You're dying to workout because you know right after, you're feasting like a machine! Lol
And you've surely read about my meals... How rewarding is that?!
 
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Well the next opportunity I'll have for a diet w/carbs factored in significantly is ... April? Or August. So set a reminder and PM me then ;)

Again, increasing performance leading to increased physiology is a viable contention, however nutrient timing does not affect muscle gain or fat loss physiologically, as far as statistical analysis has shown to date.

Hormone production and serum levels do fluctuate during the day, but that is not linearly related/proportional to their transcription rates, nor is it proportional to their production rate in an absolute sense.

I could talk hormone physiology and dynamics all day if I had the time, but I don't :(

What I will say is that it's your improved performance that will direct improved physical change. It isn't the timing of the meals itself (assuming calories the same, and thresholds met etc.)
 
You're still thinking inside the "bulk/cut" box, Jester...
Dont think of it as a diet, just a new way to eat. And the new way doesn't require bulk/cut cycles.... Ever!
Improved performance, no matter the cause or reason, should at least raise a few eyebrows... And if that means not having to bulk to do it, all the better. What's more, is you WILL actually lose BF as well following this... I swear to God! Lol
If it isn't the timing, and if it isn't excessive calories, then what could be causing the increase in performance and recomposition..? It certainly isn't the 3/4 pumpkin pie, peanut butter/banana sandwich and half a pizza I ate last night!
;)
 
Here is my weight log over the last 3 months, doing carb backloading.
Notice the weekly spikes... Those are weekends where I didn't follow the program and/or had off days.
The 2 big upward spikes, one is me going on Champix for smoking (stopped shitting , not sleeping and started retaining water) and the most recent spike is me on a SD, Thanksgiving (in Canada, eh) and not timing my meals.... Lol
I'm not saying this couldn't of been done on just about any sensible diet out there, but I swear you wouldn't of seen the strength gains and hypertrophy on those diets!
 

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Hi Jester. I definitely don't qualify as skinny fat. I just hold too much fat round my lower half which I find impossible to get rid of.

Wungun. I don't eat anything before 5pm except on workout days. I have 1 round of wholemeal toast before. I'll take a look at the book when I have time. Thanks

My diet doesn't seem to be going to0 well. I have been stuck at 200lbs for the last 3 weeks. I'm sure I haven't gained any muscle over the 3 cycles of HST. Also most of my 10 rep maxes have now gone down to where they were before the 3 gaining cycles of HST. Does that mean even if I did gain a little muscle that I will have now lost it?
 
Do whatever works for you regardless of what people or experts with peer reviewed papers say. Everyone metabolizes differently. If you haven't achieved your goal, you have not found the right combination yet. Most of what is said on here are generalizations and may not be specific to you. As Mike Katz's son said on FB this morning, 'train to gain, not to maintain.' If it doesn't work for you, change it up after giving it a fair chance.
 
The question is though if body types don't exist why am I not losing weight on at 2000 cals a day at 6ft and 200lb working out 5 days a week? I've plugged my details into the IIFYM calculator and suggested calories for fatloss is 2365, aggressive is 2226 calories and reckless 2087 calories a day. I'm below that at less than 2000.

I've said before that the numbers don't make sense when it comes to losing weight for me. I know I should easily be losing weight but I'm not.
 
@charr I'm no diet expert but it seems you have a few options:
  • The simplest, if you aren't losing weight, cut out more calories until you are. (this is how I lose weight, it works but it sucks)
  • Try a more exotic diet such as ketogenic or the carb loading as Wungun is advocating
  • Something even more extreme...
 
@charr,

As adpowah said, currently I am eating my carbs after evening workout (20 to 30g before) and currently maintaining body weight (178lbs) consuming in excess of 3100 cals per day (approx 2000 cals after workout) with close to 2g of protein per lb of body weight, give it a try you have nothing to lose.
 
On the intermittent fasting I am currently consuming most of my carbs after workout or first meal of the day. Carbs on first meal are 150g. 50g on the last meal. The problem I am also facing is that I am also rapidly losing strength on such low calories. It's like the calories are so low that I am losing strength but still not low enough to be losing fat. Going lower is difficult and I imagine will probably affect my strength even more.

With regard to timing carbs I was also doing IF when bulking consuming about 280g carbs on my first meal and 80g on my second. It still resulted in me gaining alot of fat.
 
wungun said:
You're still thinking inside the "bulk/cut" box, Jester...
Dont think of it as a diet, just a new way to eat. And the new way doesn't require bulk/cut cycles.... Ever!
Improved performance, no matter the cause or reason, should at least raise a few eyebrows... And if that means not having to bulk to do it, all the better. What's more, is you WILL actually lose BF as well following this... I swear to God! Lol
If it isn't the timing, and if it isn't excessive calories, then what could be causing the increase in performance and recomposition..? It certainly isn't the 3/4 pumpkin pie, peanut butter/banana sandwich and half a pizza I ate last night!
;)
Click to expand...

All I'm interested in is calories in vs calories out. Everything else is details - they're only important once you tick off that first factor. Don't forget the forest for the trees.
 
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