Getting lean without losing beef
- Thread starter beingisbeing
- Start date
beingisbeing
New Member
<div>
(colby2152 @ Jul. 14 2008,12:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What scale do you have that gives fractions of fifths?</div>
health-o-meter...digital
i got sick of playing eyeball games with that *#*#*#*# needle on the old school scale
and having plenty of laboratory experience I'm 100% aware of the tremendous margin of error present in both of these instruments cut and crafted for us lay people
the mirror is king
(colby2152 @ Jul. 14 2008,12:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What scale do you have that gives fractions of fifths?</div>
health-o-meter...digital
i got sick of playing eyeball games with that *#*#*#*# needle on the old school scale
and having plenty of laboratory experience I'm 100% aware of the tremendous margin of error present in both of these instruments cut and crafted for us lay people
the mirror is king
beingisbeing
New Member
Tuesday July 15th
Weight: 163.2
Waist: same stuff
Routine: depletion workout again
Calories: ~ 1500 (its so hard to keep the
posted some pics
Weight: 163.2
Waist: same stuff
Routine: depletion workout again
Calories: ~ 1500 (its so hard to keep the
posted some pics
beingisbeing
New Member
Weds July 16th
Weight in morning: 163.4
waist: 29.5
routine: 40 mins light jogging
calories: pretty much identical to yesterday
thanks colbster! the hair DEF weighs a good 10 lbs, no question. I'll mail some to you when you bulk. Adds a few lbs to your bench I hear
Weight in morning: 163.4
waist: 29.5
routine: 40 mins light jogging
calories: pretty much identical to yesterday
thanks colbster! the hair DEF weighs a good 10 lbs, no question. I'll mail some to you when you bulk. Adds a few lbs to your bench I hear
<div>
(beingisbeing @ Jul. 17 2008,1:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">thanks colbster! the hair DEF weighs a good 10 lbs, no question. I'll mail some to you when you bulk. Adds a few lbs to your bench I hear
</div>
LOL, that's disgusting! Haha. Well, your progress has been amazing. Have any type of picture from January when you were weighing in the 200's?
(beingisbeing @ Jul. 17 2008,1:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">thanks colbster! the hair DEF weighs a good 10 lbs, no question. I'll mail some to you when you bulk. Adds a few lbs to your bench I hear
LOL, that's disgusting! Haha. Well, your progress has been amazing. Have any type of picture from January when you were weighing in the 200's?
beingisbeing
New Member
I'm checking on that actually. I'm sure nothing shirtless with a poor attempt at posing, but possibly something enough to reveal my chin and gut! I'm going to have to get access to a scanner though...
<div>
(beingisbeing @ Jul. 17 2008,1:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm checking on that actually. I'm sure nothing shirtless with a poor attempt at posing, but possibly something enough to reveal my chin and gut! I'm going to have to get access to a scanner though...</div>
Scan it or take a digital picture of it close up with the right flash settings.
(beingisbeing @ Jul. 17 2008,1:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm checking on that actually. I'm sure nothing shirtless with a poor attempt at posing, but possibly something enough to reveal my chin and gut! I'm going to have to get access to a scanner though...</div>
Scan it or take a digital picture of it close up with the right flash settings.
beingisbeing
New Member
Thurs July 17th
Weight: 160.2
Waist: same
Routine: walk/jog about 40 mins
Calories: same crap lol. I'm not even counting anything anymore except protein because I'm eating the same things every day.
Weight: 160.2
Waist: same
Routine: walk/jog about 40 mins
Calories: same crap lol. I'm not even counting anything anymore except protein because I'm eating the same things every day.
beingisbeing
New Member
Friday July 18th
Weight : 163.2
waist: same
calories: ~1400
routine: light jog/walk
very bloated today, retaining loads of water for some reason. hadn't had a bowel movement since monday night! yikes. I took a laxative and unloaded 2 lbs, literally.
heavy tension workout + carb load tomorrow! i have the cocoa krispies ready
Weight : 163.2
waist: same
calories: ~1400
routine: light jog/walk
very bloated today, retaining loads of water for some reason. hadn't had a bowel movement since monday night! yikes. I took a laxative and unloaded 2 lbs, literally.
heavy tension workout + carb load tomorrow! i have the cocoa krispies ready
beingisbeing
New Member
Saturday July 19th
Weight: 161 (ate/drank a lot through the night actually)
Waist: same
Routine: HST 5s (with a few exceptions)
CARB LOAD! I'll be away until monday morning, may or may not /log/take measurements.
This box of cocoa krispies doesn't stand a chance, nor does this bag of bagels, or this pint of mango sorbet...hahah
Weight: 161 (ate/drank a lot through the night actually)
Waist: same
Routine: HST 5s (with a few exceptions)
CARB LOAD! I'll be away until monday morning, may or may not /log/take measurements.
This box of cocoa krispies doesn't stand a chance, nor does this bag of bagels, or this pint of mango sorbet...hahah
beingisbeing
New Member
so I had plenty of fun at the wedding
I may have undone 7 days of PSMF, literally.
But its OK!
I'm taking a 'break' this week, eating at maintenance, and training, toying with a new splits/exercises.
I may have experienced a metabolic breakdown last week, or I just simply out stripped a 7000 calorie deficit with two days of eating/drinking! lol
I will return on Monday the 28th, combat ready, prepared to take a forceful nose dive into the nether regions of sub 10% bodyfat.
Goa: lose a final 6 lbs of bodyfat by September 1st.
I may have undone 7 days of PSMF, literally.
But its OK!
I'm taking a 'break' this week, eating at maintenance, and training, toying with a new splits/exercises.
I may have experienced a metabolic breakdown last week, or I just simply out stripped a 7000 calorie deficit with two days of eating/drinking! lol
I will return on Monday the 28th, combat ready, prepared to take a forceful nose dive into the nether regions of sub 10% bodyfat.
Goa: lose a final 6 lbs of bodyfat by September 1st.
I just read your whole log...very nice results. I have some questions for you:
1) Is this a Lyle diet or NKL's...do you have a link to the parameter descriptions?
2) If you believe calories are calories for the most part, except for some insulin sensitivety issues, why are you carbing up on loading days as opposed to just increasing calories from fat for example? Did your results vary when you switched macros to more carb based?
3) What benefit does this diet give over a steady deficit in calories? Is it better for preserving muscle, or just easier to maintain due to the monotony of the former?
4) What effect does cardio have on fasting days? Do you ever lift on fasting days?
5) Is this the best diet you have ever experimented with? How does it compare to UD2.0 in terms of results...the log started after you finished that diet?
- I had more questions but forgot to jot the down a I was reading the log.
Great work!! You look very good and seem to be at least as muscular as you were previously!! Make sure you have some fun and enjoy your results or its pointless!!!!!
1) Is this a Lyle diet or NKL's...do you have a link to the parameter descriptions?
2) If you believe calories are calories for the most part, except for some insulin sensitivety issues, why are you carbing up on loading days as opposed to just increasing calories from fat for example? Did your results vary when you switched macros to more carb based?
3) What benefit does this diet give over a steady deficit in calories? Is it better for preserving muscle, or just easier to maintain due to the monotony of the former?
4) What effect does cardio have on fasting days? Do you ever lift on fasting days?
5) Is this the best diet you have ever experimented with? How does it compare to UD2.0 in terms of results...the log started after you finished that diet?
- I had more questions but forgot to jot the down a I was reading the log.
Great work!! You look very good and seem to be at least as muscular as you were previously!! Make sure you have some fun and enjoy your results or its pointless!!!!!
beingisbeing
New Member
Saturday:
Still eating at maintenance
Weighing in around 164.4-167
I'm restricting carbs today, getting ready to take the dive, though I may not restrict calories. Depends on how I feel.
Sof: I'll try and answer all those questions tonight! They're all really good and I want to try my best to do them justice, for both of us, because they are making me think.
Still eating at maintenance
Weighing in around 164.4-167
I'm restricting carbs today, getting ready to take the dive, though I may not restrict calories. Depends on how I feel.
Sof: I'll try and answer all those questions tonight! They're all really good and I want to try my best to do them justice, for both of us, because they are making me think.
I
imported_electric
Guest
<div>
(soflsun @ Jul. 26 2008,3:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">2) If you believe calories are calories for the most part, except for some insulin sensitivety issues, why are you carbing up on loading days as opposed to just increasing calories from fat for example? Did your results vary when you switched macros to more carb based?</div>
I'll be waiting for being's answer on this one but if I were to stop my diet for a day or two, I would ratter carb load them fat load
(soflsun @ Jul. 26 2008,3:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">2) If you believe calories are calories for the most part, except for some insulin sensitivety issues, why are you carbing up on loading days as opposed to just increasing calories from fat for example? Did your results vary when you switched macros to more carb based?</div>
I'll be waiting for being's answer on this one but if I were to stop my diet for a day or two, I would ratter carb load them fat load
I thought of my other couple of questions:
6) About how long are you spending in the weight room. My workouts tend to be lengthy (90 min) with long breaks between sets. Have you found any correlation between the length of your workouts and results, or has it just been a matter of increasing or at least maintaining your lifts?
7) Are you hungry on the restrictive days, or do you find the excess calories from the previous day keeps you satiated?
Thanks...no need to rush with the answers.
6) About how long are you spending in the weight room. My workouts tend to be lengthy (90 min) with long breaks between sets. Have you found any correlation between the length of your workouts and results, or has it just been a matter of increasing or at least maintaining your lifts?
7) Are you hungry on the restrictive days, or do you find the excess calories from the previous day keeps you satiated?
Thanks...no need to rush with the answers.
beingisbeing
New Member
Kay:
Sorry this is long, and this is just my cursory understanding of these things from reading, etc. So here goes...
1) This was nkl's brainchild in many ways. It was basically an outgrowth of the IF method, with one important exception: protein intake was to remain constant and high, instead of going into pure fasting periods.
Basically, starting with an 'off day' this is how it would go:
off day: -eat ala protein sparing modified fast diet. all lean protein plus dark/low GI veggies, calories about half maintenance or less.
- cardio
on day: - keep diet the same, until weight lifting time. have protein and some carbs before the gym. lift, then eat 'normal' which could been 40/30/30 (carbs/protein/fat), 65/25/10, whatever, for the rest of the day. Calories set at maintenance plus (for me the plus was anywhere from 3-800)
three 'on' days a week, 4 off days
incidentally, Lyle has discussed in his forum doing something like this, called an "every other day refeed' system. same set up, said he had great results with it.
he'd throw in cardio on weight days, but only in the morning while still eating PSMF style, and use ephedrine/caffeine on off/cardio days.
PWO on 'on days' he wouldnt count calories at all and just slug carbs for about 5 hours (rainbow sherbert, high sugar cereal, milk, pasta lol)
2) I did both. I've had my high calorie days set to high fat/low carb, and high carb/low fat, and isocaloric proportions as well (equal fat/carb). They all worked! (but remember I was/am counting calories with a fine tooth comb).
Doing it with high carb is harder for me, because my hunger gets out of control with carbs. Would never quite feel full. But I would have more energy the next day and the next workout by doing things this way.
Also:
here is the thing. as I understand it carbs PWO will instill a strong anabolic response, which fat will not. Further, the more you are glycogen depleted, the more your calories, if we're talking high carb intake, will be partitioned into muscle when you refeed. Fat wouldn't work this way, simply because carbs are used preferentially for reloading glycogen stores.
So on a cyclical diet (UD2.0 is the cyclical diet par excellence), the more you set up glycogen depletion by restricting carbs and burning through them in your workouts, the more you can actually way over eat carbs (in UD2.0 this approaches absurd levels of 6-9000 calories) and manage to not put any fat back on, because the energy is being driven into your muscles. Your body is too concerned with reloading your glycogen stores and repairing your beef to worry about storage. Even better, the longer you have been running on fat as fuel due to restricted carbs, the longer you can actually maintain the use of fat as fuel even while loading up on carbs (Lyle calls this a "neat metabolic trick," and in UD2.0 it supposedly goes on for about 24 hours...pretty cool!)
This works best in UD2.0, because you spend 3.5 days depleting glycogen stores, and then super load on carbs. So you get a diet effect, losing fat, and then an intense anabolic effect from carbs because of the timing and other machinations you've employed to set up the carb load.
This also happens in an EOD system, but to a much lesser extent. So its a trade between frequency and intensity of the anabolic effect.
Obviously, depending on how we set calories, we can manipulate this system for cutting or bulking, which is really cool.
3) I love cyclical dieting for psychological reasons, I can deal with extremes, I find steady state boring, but great bodybuilders make it work and I'm sure it works fine.
But I also believe it preserves muscle quite well if not better, and can even lead to muscle gain while losing fat, because we're 'telling the calories where to go' vis-a-vis the above mechanisms.
4) Cardio on fasting days increases the deficit, burns fat, increases catecholamines and lipolysis in general, etc. In a UD2.0 set up or RFL (PSMF) set up you will/I have lifted on low calorie days, and it works.
5) I think UD2.0 works best, but its a pain in the ***. Four full body workouts a week, two of them are high rep workouts, where the full body circuit is run TWICE to deplete maximal glycogen, then you eat until you burst when you carb load and experience mood swings like you're on drugs. But it works! My first week on UD2.0, I ate way above maintenance for the week and still lost two lbs.
But I love the EOD system. Its great knowing that you get to enjoy great food within 24 hours, and then go back to fat blasting just as fast. And it works too.
6) I spend over an hour in the weight room. The more carb depleted I am, the longer I have to rest between sets. Not sure if I've seen a correlation between length training and results. I did for a period do two a day workouts and eat even higher to try and get a greater anabolic effect. Not sure if it worked, but it was fun hitting the gym after midnight.
7) I feel pretty full in the morning, and all the green veggies and protein end up blunting the hell out of my hunger. In fact if I wasn't counting calories, I'd feel like I'd "over eaten." A lb of broccoli goes a LONG way, not to mention all that animal flesh.
Sorry this is long, and this is just my cursory understanding of these things from reading, etc. So here goes...
1) This was nkl's brainchild in many ways. It was basically an outgrowth of the IF method, with one important exception: protein intake was to remain constant and high, instead of going into pure fasting periods.
Basically, starting with an 'off day' this is how it would go:
off day: -eat ala protein sparing modified fast diet. all lean protein plus dark/low GI veggies, calories about half maintenance or less.
- cardio
on day: - keep diet the same, until weight lifting time. have protein and some carbs before the gym. lift, then eat 'normal' which could been 40/30/30 (carbs/protein/fat), 65/25/10, whatever, for the rest of the day. Calories set at maintenance plus (for me the plus was anywhere from 3-800)
three 'on' days a week, 4 off days
incidentally, Lyle has discussed in his forum doing something like this, called an "every other day refeed' system. same set up, said he had great results with it.
he'd throw in cardio on weight days, but only in the morning while still eating PSMF style, and use ephedrine/caffeine on off/cardio days.
PWO on 'on days' he wouldnt count calories at all and just slug carbs for about 5 hours (rainbow sherbert, high sugar cereal, milk, pasta lol)
2) I did both. I've had my high calorie days set to high fat/low carb, and high carb/low fat, and isocaloric proportions as well (equal fat/carb). They all worked! (but remember I was/am counting calories with a fine tooth comb).
Doing it with high carb is harder for me, because my hunger gets out of control with carbs. Would never quite feel full. But I would have more energy the next day and the next workout by doing things this way.
Also:
here is the thing. as I understand it carbs PWO will instill a strong anabolic response, which fat will not. Further, the more you are glycogen depleted, the more your calories, if we're talking high carb intake, will be partitioned into muscle when you refeed. Fat wouldn't work this way, simply because carbs are used preferentially for reloading glycogen stores.
So on a cyclical diet (UD2.0 is the cyclical diet par excellence), the more you set up glycogen depletion by restricting carbs and burning through them in your workouts, the more you can actually way over eat carbs (in UD2.0 this approaches absurd levels of 6-9000 calories) and manage to not put any fat back on, because the energy is being driven into your muscles. Your body is too concerned with reloading your glycogen stores and repairing your beef to worry about storage. Even better, the longer you have been running on fat as fuel due to restricted carbs, the longer you can actually maintain the use of fat as fuel even while loading up on carbs (Lyle calls this a "neat metabolic trick," and in UD2.0 it supposedly goes on for about 24 hours...pretty cool!)
This works best in UD2.0, because you spend 3.5 days depleting glycogen stores, and then super load on carbs. So you get a diet effect, losing fat, and then an intense anabolic effect from carbs because of the timing and other machinations you've employed to set up the carb load.
This also happens in an EOD system, but to a much lesser extent. So its a trade between frequency and intensity of the anabolic effect.
Obviously, depending on how we set calories, we can manipulate this system for cutting or bulking, which is really cool.
3) I love cyclical dieting for psychological reasons, I can deal with extremes, I find steady state boring, but great bodybuilders make it work and I'm sure it works fine.
But I also believe it preserves muscle quite well if not better, and can even lead to muscle gain while losing fat, because we're 'telling the calories where to go' vis-a-vis the above mechanisms.
4) Cardio on fasting days increases the deficit, burns fat, increases catecholamines and lipolysis in general, etc. In a UD2.0 set up or RFL (PSMF) set up you will/I have lifted on low calorie days, and it works.
5) I think UD2.0 works best, but its a pain in the ***. Four full body workouts a week, two of them are high rep workouts, where the full body circuit is run TWICE to deplete maximal glycogen, then you eat until you burst when you carb load and experience mood swings like you're on drugs. But it works! My first week on UD2.0, I ate way above maintenance for the week and still lost two lbs.
But I love the EOD system. Its great knowing that you get to enjoy great food within 24 hours, and then go back to fat blasting just as fast. And it works too.
6) I spend over an hour in the weight room. The more carb depleted I am, the longer I have to rest between sets. Not sure if I've seen a correlation between length training and results. I did for a period do two a day workouts and eat even higher to try and get a greater anabolic effect. Not sure if it worked, but it was fun hitting the gym after midnight.
7) I feel pretty full in the morning, and all the green veggies and protein end up blunting the hell out of my hunger. In fact if I wasn't counting calories, I'd feel like I'd "over eaten." A lb of broccoli goes a LONG way, not to mention all that animal flesh.
beingisbeing
New Member
Sunday July 27th:
Weight: 164.4
Routine: Depletion WO UD2.0
Chest press machine: 3X15
Incline press machine: 3X15
Pull-down machine: 3X15
Row machine: 3X15
Leg extension: 6X15
Leg curl: 6X15
Calf Raise: 6X15
Crunch Machine: 4X15
Shoulder Press Machine: 2X15
Lateral Raise Machine: 2X15
Preacher Machine: 2X15
Triceps Press Machine:2X15
Hammer Strength Curl Machine: 2X15
Tricep Push down Machine: 2X15
25 minutes of SS cardio
Calories: ~ 1250
This was absolutely brutal! Repeat tomorrow...
Weight: 164.4
Routine: Depletion WO UD2.0
Chest press machine: 3X15
Incline press machine: 3X15
Pull-down machine: 3X15
Row machine: 3X15
Leg extension: 6X15
Leg curl: 6X15
Calf Raise: 6X15
Crunch Machine: 4X15
Shoulder Press Machine: 2X15
Lateral Raise Machine: 2X15
Preacher Machine: 2X15
Triceps Press Machine:2X15
Hammer Strength Curl Machine: 2X15
Tricep Push down Machine: 2X15
25 minutes of SS cardio
Calories: ~ 1250
This was absolutely brutal! Repeat tomorrow...
beingisbeing
New Member
Monday July 28th
Weight: 162.8
Routine: Depletion WO part II
Machine Butterfly: 3X15
Incline Machine: 3X15
Low Row Machine: 3X15
Pronated-Wide Grip Cable Pull down: 3X15
Shrug Machine: 2X15
Reverse Fly Machine: 2X15
Leg Extension: 3X15
Leg Curl: 3X15
Seated Calf Raise: 3X15
HIIT: Used 8 intervals of 45 seconds to constitute the suggested/remaining 9 sets of leg excercises remaining.
Close Grip Bench: 2X15
Triceps Push Down: 2X15
Some Machine for biceps: 2X15
Some other Machine: 2X15
Calories: ~1350
I am EXHAUSTED and dreaming of my carb load!
Weight: 162.8
Routine: Depletion WO part II
Machine Butterfly: 3X15
Incline Machine: 3X15
Low Row Machine: 3X15
Pronated-Wide Grip Cable Pull down: 3X15
Shrug Machine: 2X15
Reverse Fly Machine: 2X15
Leg Extension: 3X15
Leg Curl: 3X15
Seated Calf Raise: 3X15
HIIT: Used 8 intervals of 45 seconds to constitute the suggested/remaining 9 sets of leg excercises remaining.
Close Grip Bench: 2X15
Triceps Push Down: 2X15
Some Machine for biceps: 2X15
Some other Machine: 2X15
Calories: ~1350
I am EXHAUSTED and dreaming of my carb load!
bluejacket
New Member
fwiw.
my exper./results mirror beingisbeings with respect to his post about cutting with UD 2.0 and IF.
personally i found the IF approach much more practical and effective then UD2.0 though. i think this had a lot to do with the strict structure of the UD diet/workout plan and the once a week power w/o. i can do regimented programs but UD became a little too life dominating over time for me. i can do power w/os as well but had real trouble ramping the wgts that high each week following light(er) depletion/tension w/os.
IF recomp/cut is very easy for me by comparison and therefore ive had better adherence and success. not that UD wasnt effective. i just prefer the IF approach for my lifestyle.
my exper./results mirror beingisbeings with respect to his post about cutting with UD 2.0 and IF.
personally i found the IF approach much more practical and effective then UD2.0 though. i think this had a lot to do with the strict structure of the UD diet/workout plan and the once a week power w/o. i can do regimented programs but UD became a little too life dominating over time for me. i can do power w/os as well but had real trouble ramping the wgts that high each week following light(er) depletion/tension w/os.
IF recomp/cut is very easy for me by comparison and therefore ive had better adherence and success. not that UD wasnt effective. i just prefer the IF approach for my lifestyle.