How Much Omega 3?
- Thread starter Avi1985
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(Avi1985 @ Jan. 06 2007,12:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">From your article : "The optimal range of the ratio of omega–6/omega–3 varies from 1/1 to 4/1
depending on the disease under consideration"
So i was right, ratio 1:1 is good. 1:4 is good 2, but im not even in the 1:4 area.
And the article i`ve read is in hebruw so you wont undertsand.</div>
Sure - bear in mind, though, that amounts/ratios of omega 3 needed to treat particular illnesses may be different from those beneficial for people without those illnesses.
You're right - a fair part of the fat in omega 3 pills generally isn't EPA or DHA. You can get some stronger pills and liquids, with less other fats - nutrasea hp, for example http://www.1stvitality.com/acatalog/nutrasea_omega_3_fish_oil.html
These tend to cost a fair bit, though.
(Avi1985 @ Jan. 06 2007,12:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">From your article : "The optimal range of the ratio of omega–6/omega–3 varies from 1/1 to 4/1
depending on the disease under consideration"
So i was right, ratio 1:1 is good. 1:4 is good 2, but im not even in the 1:4 area.
And the article i`ve read is in hebruw so you wont undertsand.</div>
Sure - bear in mind, though, that amounts/ratios of omega 3 needed to treat particular illnesses may be different from those beneficial for people without those illnesses.
You're right - a fair part of the fat in omega 3 pills generally isn't EPA or DHA. You can get some stronger pills and liquids, with less other fats - nutrasea hp, for example http://www.1stvitality.com/acatalog/nutrasea_omega_3_fish_oil.html
These tend to cost a fair bit, though.
LittleBigHorn
New Member
You can actually overdose on omega 3's, in spite of their benign reputation. I just got a comprehensive blood test done, and it turns out I fall below the normal blood clotting factor range. Basically, if I ever get more than a small nick, I'll bleed like a stuck pig, thanks to all the omega 3's I've been getting in.
That's interesting - I've heard that too much omega 3 can cause excessive bleeding, but never heard of it showing up on tests before.
If you don't mind me asking (obviously, your med records are your business, so feel free to refuse) how much omega 3 were you eating? And the test showed your blood clotted too slowly?
If you don't mind me asking (obviously, your med records are your business, so feel free to refuse) how much omega 3 were you eating? And the test showed your blood clotted too slowly?
LittleBigHorn
New Member
I usually consume about 4-5 tablespoons of cold pressed rapeseed oil, which is high in omega 3's, every day.
No problem about the blood test thing. Apparently, the average range is 150-360 E9/L (the unit being measured is B-tromb). I fell short by one point at 149.
It's not hazardously low, but I have noticed that when I get, say, a papercut, it takes somewhat longer to clot, and the blood is very runny and non viscous. The most obvious benefit to having freely flowing blood would be that I am certainly not at risk of getting clogged veins/heart problems as I age, and conversely, the most obvious downside would be that if I ever get into a car accident or something like that, I'll probably bleed to death in a matter of minutes.
No problem about the blood test thing. Apparently, the average range is 150-360 E9/L (the unit being measured is B-tromb). I fell short by one point at 149.
It's not hazardously low, but I have noticed that when I get, say, a papercut, it takes somewhat longer to clot, and the blood is very runny and non viscous. The most obvious benefit to having freely flowing blood would be that I am certainly not at risk of getting clogged veins/heart problems as I age, and conversely, the most obvious downside would be that if I ever get into a car accident or something like that, I'll probably bleed to death in a matter of minutes.
LittleBigHorn
New Member
Yep, it's still within an acceptable range (although the lab people had underlined it, marking it as subnormal). But I remember reading somewhere that it's not really a hazard to your health until you start to reach a number close to 100.
I'm still taking in plenty of omega 3's, since I don't really consider 149 alarming. At least I'll have healthy veins. If I get another blood test and it turns out it's gotten even lower, I may have to cut down on them a little, though.
I also heard that if your diet is disproportionate with lots of omega 3's and little to no cholesterol, your testosterone levels may drop (I think there was a Pubmed study on the matter). I try to counter the possibility of that happening by eating some quality steak and other red meats every now and then.
I'm still taking in plenty of omega 3's, since I don't really consider 149 alarming. At least I'll have healthy veins. If I get another blood test and it turns out it's gotten even lower, I may have to cut down on them a little, though.
I also heard that if your diet is disproportionate with lots of omega 3's and little to no cholesterol, your testosterone levels may drop (I think there was a Pubmed study on the matter). I try to counter the possibility of that happening by eating some quality steak and other red meats every now and then.
Fair enough- I've heard of dieticians advising people (usually kids) stop taking the supplement before surgery, because of the risk of bleeding, but that's just based on anecdote I think. As you say, I guess this reduces some risks and increases others.
Anyway, glad to hear about cholesterol and testosterone. I find that red meat, pork, eggs etc. are easy nutritional supplement to take
Anyway, glad to hear about cholesterol and testosterone. I find that red meat, pork, eggs etc. are easy nutritional supplement to take
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
Currently, I eat one omega 3 egg, one table spoon of omega 3 peanut butter, and 6 fish oil caplets per day. Wild game which grazes on grasses, or grass-fed/free range livestock will have higher amounts of omega 3 fat too, if you can access it.
LittleBigHorn
New Member
Yep, nothing wrong with supplementing with a little pork and eggs.
I actually find that eating a good steak gives me a temporary feeling of well being and an elevated sense of prowess. Prowess at what.. I don't know. Maybe it's some kind of primordial gut level thing that ties back to our caveman days.. the rush of eating what you've killed, and gaining strength from doing so. Even though you didn't actually kill what you ate (the people at the slaughterhouse took care of that nasty part
).
Or maybe it's just the beef hormones kicking in.
I actually find that eating a good steak gives me a temporary feeling of well being and an elevated sense of prowess. Prowess at what.. I don't know. Maybe it's some kind of primordial gut level thing that ties back to our caveman days.. the rush of eating what you've killed, and gaining strength from doing so. Even though you didn't actually kill what you ate (the people at the slaughterhouse took care of that nasty part
Or maybe it's just the beef hormones kicking in.
My understanding is that there's some evidence that eating foods high in fat and/or protein can cause the brain to release chemicals that make us feel good (endorphins, IIRC). Which is one explanation for why we can quite easily get to like odd tastes and smells (e.g. doritos, or ripe camembert) if we come to associate them with this type of reaction. And steak tastes nice, which helps
Trying to put on weight, I'm getting to like the stewing cuts of meat - oxtail, breast/neck of lamb, belly pork, etc. - that are quite high in fat...Got some shin of beef for a thai curry tonight: about a week's worth of saturated fat
(I should say, most of the flesh I eat is fish and lean meat/game, so I don't normally eat that much saturated fat )
Trying to put on weight, I'm getting to like the stewing cuts of meat - oxtail, breast/neck of lamb, belly pork, etc. - that are quite high in fat...Got some shin of beef for a thai curry tonight: about a week's worth of saturated fat
)LittleBigHorn
New Member
Yeah, I heard that too from someplace. Chocolate is said to release endorphins (especially dark chocolate), and it would make sense that high protein/fat foods in general might trigger such a response.
Ah, neck of lamb.. there's a delicacy that can either be almost unedible, or a taste bud tingling experience, depending on how it is done and who has prepared it. I recently ate a nice serving of lamb neck at a local viking restaurant (apparently prepared in accordance with traditional viking recipies).. good stuff. It's so tender it almost disintegrates in your mouth.
About game/wild grazing livestock, it's odd how drastically different the fatty acid profiles can be for domestic raised animals and wild ones. Even the muscle fiber makeup can be completely different. For example, the difference between wild boar and domestic hog is like the difference between night and day. Domestic hog is like 80% white muscle fibers (I doubt there's any omega 3's in it), whereas wild boar meat is predominantly red, lean and very healthy; probably containing some omega 3's, too.
Ah, neck of lamb.. there's a delicacy that can either be almost unedible, or a taste bud tingling experience, depending on how it is done and who has prepared it. I recently ate a nice serving of lamb neck at a local viking restaurant (apparently prepared in accordance with traditional viking recipies).. good stuff. It's so tender it almost disintegrates in your mouth.
About game/wild grazing livestock, it's odd how drastically different the fatty acid profiles can be for domestic raised animals and wild ones. Even the muscle fiber makeup can be completely different. For example, the difference between wild boar and domestic hog is like the difference between night and day. Domestic hog is like 80% white muscle fibers (I doubt there's any omega 3's in it), whereas wild boar meat is predominantly red, lean and very healthy; probably containing some omega 3's, too.
You guys are making me feel like a real slacker when it comes to EFA's. I've not been using them much since I've been bulking and gotten fatter than I like to be. I probably should add them in regardless though...it seems like my elbows and finger joints have been hurting a bit and feeling stiff...which goes away when I do a couple of fish oil caps.
One thing you guys taking rapeseed and flax oil should be aware of is that EPA and DHA are not usually available from vegetarian sources. Apparently there is some low conversion (5-10%) of ALA, but that means you are not getting alot of those Omega-3s directly.
As a vegetarian myself (yup, one of the few on this board
), I am not encouraging you to eat meat or fish oil, but I think you should be aware of this.
There are some vegetarian supplements of DHA (from algae), but nothing for EPA yet. Here is a link to a vegetarian discussion of the issue. Veggies and Omega-3
As a vegetarian myself (yup, one of the few on this board
There are some vegetarian supplements of DHA (from algae), but nothing for EPA yet. Here is a link to a vegetarian discussion of the issue. Veggies and Omega-3
LittleBigHorn
New Member
Yep, true. I just don't have the stomach for fish oil.. otherwise I'd be taking it.
It makes me gag, every time. I know there's supposed to be a completely neutral tasting brand somewhere out there, but I haven't discovered one yet. It's bound to be pretty expensive, too, in comparison to the normal, rank tasting fish oil.
I figure I'm getting enough omega 3's out of the sheer bulk of rapeseed oil I'm taking in, because my blood clotting factor is below normal, and my blood is very runny.
BTW, are you a pure vegan or a lacto-ovo vegetarian? And do you find such a diet to make bodybuilding more difficult?
I figure I'm getting enough omega 3's out of the sheer bulk of rapeseed oil I'm taking in, because my blood clotting factor is below normal, and my blood is very runny.
BTW, are you a pure vegan or a lacto-ovo vegetarian? And do you find such a diet to make bodybuilding more difficult?
Bulldog
Active Member
I haven't tried this yet but this is what I will be purchasing when my Flax oil runs out.
http://www.carlsonlabs.com/product....id=03a9
http://www.amazon.com/Carlson....8&s=hpc
From what I have heard this "Lemon" flavored fish oil is supposed to be the best tasting fish oil on the market. Of course if you don't like lemon then you probably won't like this oil. But read the reviews and their comments regarding taste.
They also have an "Orange" flavor but it did not win the "Superior taste award" like the "Lemon" flavor, whatever that is.
http://www.carlsonlabs.com/product....id=03a9
http://www.amazon.com/Carlson....8&s=hpc
From what I have heard this "Lemon" flavored fish oil is supposed to be the best tasting fish oil on the market. Of course if you don't like lemon then you probably won't like this oil. But read the reviews and their comments regarding taste.
They also have an "Orange" flavor but it did not win the "Superior taste award" like the "Lemon" flavor, whatever that is.
LBH, believe or not, I eat vegan. Vegan food does not have the protein density of animal products and I found long ago that I had to do protein shakes to add any muscle. Even then, when I started learning diet information from this board and tracking my macronutrients I was shocked at how little protein and calories I was getting relative to a true bulking diet.
In order to get enough calories on a vegan diet it is very easy to get too much fat and not enough protein. It probably can be done, but you are likely talking a lot of beans for protein, and typically soy products. With soy the issue of estrogenic effects comes up. The protein shakes just make it easier. I use a non-soy vegetable protein mixed with soy milk and sometimes soy yogurt -- enough soy protein to get the positive benefits, but not too much. BTW, I don't have any proof to this effect, but I have some suspicion that the soy helps with PSA levels (0.5 at last blood test). I also sometimes add cranberry juice to the mix for workout glycogen.
Anyway, calories are calories and protein is protein, so I have no trouble bulking as long as I am eating properly to hit my macronutrient targets. I know some will argue with the protein point, but as long as the amino mix is reasonable it seems to work.
I have not been doing any Omega-3 stuff up until now, but I am on a cutting phase now and need to up my fat intake -- I expect I will add some flax oil to the protein shakes and, perhaps, try that veggie DHA supplement.
In order to get enough calories on a vegan diet it is very easy to get too much fat and not enough protein. It probably can be done, but you are likely talking a lot of beans for protein, and typically soy products. With soy the issue of estrogenic effects comes up. The protein shakes just make it easier. I use a non-soy vegetable protein mixed with soy milk and sometimes soy yogurt -- enough soy protein to get the positive benefits, but not too much. BTW, I don't have any proof to this effect, but I have some suspicion that the soy helps with PSA levels (0.5 at last blood test). I also sometimes add cranberry juice to the mix for workout glycogen.
Anyway, calories are calories and protein is protein, so I have no trouble bulking as long as I am eating properly to hit my macronutrient targets. I know some will argue with the protein point, but as long as the amino mix is reasonable it seems to work.
I have not been doing any Omega-3 stuff up until now, but I am on a cutting phase now and need to up my fat intake -- I expect I will add some flax oil to the protein shakes and, perhaps, try that veggie DHA supplement.
I think it is estrogen mimics, rather than estrogen itself. Anyway, I am not sure if this has been fully resolved. I started my real working-out using soy protein and didn't seem to suffer any ill effects (besides gas!). However, even a radical vegan activist like Tom Robbins (heir to the Baskin-Robbins chain who rejected it and became a vegan) thinks we are playing with fire to consume the unprecedented levels of soy protein that are made possible with protein isolates. Even without the issue, however, it seems a good idea to mix your protein sources as a matter of principle -- with the controversy, it just seems like that much better an idea. As with many things, moderation seems to be the key.
There is an article floating around the internet by a guy who is generally down on soy protein for body builders who now thinks that something like 1/4 of your protein can come from soy in order to get the demonstrated health benefits, so even you meat eaters might look into it.
There is an article floating around the internet by a guy who is generally down on soy protein for body builders who now thinks that something like 1/4 of your protein can come from soy in order to get the demonstrated health benefits, so even you meat eaters might look into it.