Johnston Rep Method

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by shakeel, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. AShortt

    AShortt New Member

    cli·ni·cian (kl -n sh n)
    n.

    1. A health professional, such as a physician, psychiatrist, psychologist, or nurse, involved in clinical practice, as distinguished from one specializing in research.

    2. A health professional who practices at a clinic.

    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
    Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


    Psychologists and nurses are not MD's - the point is; A Health Professional, as per a IART certified "Fitness Clinician".

    The IART as Published by:

    ASEP, The official research Journal of the American Society of Exercise Physiologists/ www.asep.org (have a look at their review board)

    http://exercisecertification.com/article....ent.pdf

    http://exercisecertification.com/articles/JAF/fatigueROM.pdf

    The IART as accredited through:

    FSC, http://www.fitnessstandards.org/ whose advisory panel consists of: several experienced and highly knowledgeable and respected individuals in the fitness and wellness community, including Matt Brzcyki (Princeton University), Ellington Darden, Ph.D., Jacqueline Carter (California State University), Dr. Robert Kudlak, M.D., Dave Smith, Ph.D. (Chester College of Higher Education), and Kevin Fontaine, Ph.D. (Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine).

    ICAA, http://www.icaa.cc/ whose advisory board consists of:

    http://www.icaa.cc/advisoryboard.htm

    The IART who is a provisional affiliate of: "The National Board of Fitness Examiners" http://www.nbfe.org/ whose examiners, fellows and trustees consist of: http://www.nbfe.org/about/

    The IART, which maintains the: "Fitness Logistics and Testing Center"
    http://exercisecertification.com/departments/fitnesslogistics.html

    And has recently begun conducting and publishing interesting research: http://exercisecertification.com/departments/JAF.html

    The advisory board consisting of: http://exercisecertification.com/departments/JAF%20Review%20Board.html

    Regards,
    Andrew
     
  2. xtreme

    xtreme New Member

    Removed.
     
  3. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    xtreme, why are you still posting? It's pretty obvious that Jester has totally and completely owned you with pretty much every reply he has made to you. This isn't even related to Jreps anymore, you're just trying to prove that you are old, and that you know everything about training because you were too stupid to do research and so you had to try every method before finding something that worked well.
    Just because someone is young doesn't mean they are stupid and/or inexperienced, as you are quite clearly implying. Heck, I'm only 25, born in 1980. I guess I must be half-retarded then too since Jester's young age apparently qualifies him for some kind of mental handicap. I guess that also explains why my gains have been so paltry, considering that, you know, I only have like 190 lbs of lean mass under 30 some pounds of fat. I'm essentially a beanpole.

    Speaking for myself, I did research when I decided to get serious about exercising. Instead of simply finding methods and trying them to see which one worked, I did reading about everything I found to see what training methods made more sense, had solid science to back them up and continous results from the people who tried them.
    That doesn't mean I'm less experienced/intelligent than you, it just means that I decided to rely on the knowledge of others to take a shortcut. Oh wait, isn't relying on the knowledge of others exactly what you were telling Jester he needs to do?? Ouch for you.

    I'm still baffled by your HST results. You said yourself that you were the same weight before and after your HST cycle, which clearly means that YOU are the one who doesn't have a grasp on anything, since you don't even know how to overeat.

    But whatever, this is clearly getting out of hand, I guess I should be ashamed of myself for contributing... But that's okay, I'm basically a kid still, right? You, on the other hand, being an elderly man should know better than to stoop to such immature behavior.
     
  4. mikeynov

    mikeynov Super Moderator Staff Member

    "For your edification... did you know scientists still say bees can't possibly fly. Their aerodynamic make-up prevents it. Hmmm, then why do I see bees happily buzzing around? Guess someone forgot to tell them. "

    Scientists never said they couldn't fly, they just weren't sure how they maintained lift.

    However, they've since gotten a much better handle on it.

    I agree with your point about the relevence of genetics, but some of the anti-science "people in a labcoat removed from reality" stuff is pretty stupid.
     
  5. xtreme

    xtreme New Member

    Removed.
     
  6. mikeynov

    mikeynov Super Moderator Staff Member

    This thread is kind of silly :\

    It could have been interesting had certain parties (read: Johnston) chosen to actually discuss and respectfully debate their ideas. Instead of running away like scared little girls.

    Just a thought.
     
  7. xtreme

    xtreme New Member

    Removed.
     
  8. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    There ARE Arnold-wannabe's in abundance... go and look at every professional or high-mid ranked amateur bodybuilder who's in the 220lb+ size...it's not genetics that gave him size, it's steroids. How do I have no idea...? Prove to me that genetics - AND NOT improper/sub-optimal application of sound principles are the limiting factor in BB'ing (natural or assisted).

    Again.......move on from the dogma of 70s and 80s BB'ing culture. Btw...re: Mike & Ray... remember how they both dropped dead..?? Also re: Mike & Ray; Shawn Ray circa 91-96 had better proportions, as did early Flex...and they didn't have the obscene gut that Mike had @ his peak.

    Yes...I'm younger than you. we've established this, I'm 4kgs lighter and an inch less on the guns. I'll be @ your size this time next year. Can you get over the age thing already..? Neuroses doesn't radiate respect.

    Yes, the same way a car mechanic could construct an atomic bomb if you gave him the instructions. This website is essentially an instruction manual for building a muscular yet lean body. This is why my age is irrelevant. I can read and I have. Same applies for comprehension, learning and application.

    What failures of science are you referring to..? Try your BB'ing without ANY supplementation for a year. No protein, EFAs, Creatine, Glucosamine, NOX, BCAAs or anything else.

    The verdict isn't in? Go and look at professional sports players. Anyone on an NFL team, Olympic lifters, basketballers (who don't want much muscle but if/when they need it they pack on 15-20lbs over a summer), sprint swimmers - Google for Michael Klim pictures, AFL and Rugby players.......the list goes on. And please note that these are also people performing excessive cardio work as well. Yes there are variations in exact routines (e.g. 3 or 5 or 8 reps, or bench vs. incline etc), but the PRINCIPLES remain intact.

    a) They grew bigger. There's your height. Get a balloon and blow into it. It grows B-I-G-G-E-R, and as a result it has extra height.

    b) Your quads are misleadingly referred to as a single muscle. There's actually four - hence, quads. Your outer thigh muscles were trained rather than inner. So they were bigger. Duh. And bigger meant more visible size. Duh. And hence a more visible shape. Duh.

    Where are you being lost...? This is a a very simple point. I am not refusing to listen/see. No one has shown me anything to listen or see. That's the point. "JReps work" is not evidence or enticement. It's subjective analysis, borderline speculation. I have been asking since the start of our discussion for ANYTHING to listen/see...but I am not going to pay for something on the basis of "JReps work".

    Where..? All over your immature rant about your 30yrs of training and what you've tried and how you know what works and what doesn't....how would you possibly know unless you had failed in some of your BB'ing pursuits (routines/programs).

    I HAVE BEEN SHOWN NOTHING TO ATTEMPT. Are you clinically (that's MD, not IART) referred to as retarded or slow..? NOTHING HAS BEEN PRESENTED, ARGUED, EVIDENCED OR EXPLAINED with sufficient detail. I couldn't tell you or anyone else how to perform a JRep. All I could relate is that they are associated with reduced ROM, creating a pump and lots of contractions. None of which, incidentally, have been shown to significantly increase LBM than any other technique (or at all). Give us SOMETHING. Have you not read any of my posts...???

    Say it with me . . . steroids...hormones. I know you're so old that God regards you as his high school buddy, but do you remember your growth spurts..? 2-5yrs, steady until about 12, then 13-18 you shot up....do you know what made you do that...? Steroids and hormones. Endogenously made. Administed them exogenously and evoila... Please read my next post for an elaboration of genetics.

    How much money did you invest in steroids and hormones between the ages of 15 and 35....? Yes you need to train, but if you want proof that the importance of method is reduced with pharmacological assistance, look at Arnold and Mike. High volume vs low volume. Both methods worked. Biologically speaking, they shouldn't both work to the same degree. But they did.

    Ok, you have friends...I'm just not sure I trust your hearsay, your friends or your humour...and you were so proud of your jokes too...*sigh*

    My nick has nothing to do with a guy in bright clothing wearing bells.

    Accusation...? It's an assertion. I am asking for evidence and theory that is not anecdotal or subjective. How do I know that your cult buddies (and/or yourself) aren't juiced..? I'd even settle for theory at this point.

    And before you start whining about science...please consider that theory and testing, followed by reevaulation and proof of said theory/hypothesis is the foundation of EVERYTHING we have ever learnt. The creation of fire, processing grain into bread, brushing our teeth... theory, test, reevaluate. It's that simple.

    So please....give us something that has a basis in biology or physiology or physics or biochemistry...anything. Provide a before and after shot.

    Who said anyone is lying? I'm sure he/she did get DOMs. If I do 1- neg reps @ 120% 1RM I'll get DOMs...a beach run gives me DOMs... please tell me why "I had a great workout" is relevant to JReps being viable as a training protocol. And find something OBJECTIVE.

    And one day, the physicists, anatomists and physiologists will sit down together and figure it out. Then they'll tell us both how bees CAN fly, and what they did wrong.


    ANY evidence yet....theory...something that makes sense with regard to known physiology and biochemistry..?
     
  9. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Neither does putting your ideas out like this, it is not the way Bryan intended for us to workshop things.

    Some time back we had the DOMS thread and yeah it got funny, and it got serious but I don't think it got this ugly! :mad:

    I PROTEST! THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS!

    J-reps or not, proven or not what is the point? [​IMG]
     
  10. AShortt

    AShortt New Member

    Just in case it was missed, Mike N. An dkm1987, I did post replies to you both on the botttm of page 11. I tried to be explicit and helpful.

    The natural bodybuilder at: http://www.purephysique.com/
    Mike L. is performing a JReps experiment, there is a link to see and read about it on the right hand side of his home page (under "News").

    Please keep in mind that Johnston posted in this thread to quash "misrepresentation" of his method. That is, he was not here to advertise or explain the method. I personally contributed the forward and after thoughts sections to the book. You are welcome to ask me questions which I will answer as time permits.

    Regards,
    Andrew
     
  11. leegee38

    leegee38 Member

    "...re: Mike & Ray... remember how they both dropped dead..??"

    Jester, Mike Mentzer was my friend and had inherited his heart difficulties from his dad, just as I have. He also did a horrible job of taking care of himself once he stopped competing. Now, I fully understand the thrust of your argument against the various HIT - IART guys and their Jreps, but whatever point you were trying to make with that statement is just way out of line. Muscle doesn't equate to health, as my cardiologist constantly reminds me.
     
  12. xtreme

    xtreme New Member

    And with that uncalled for comment about the Mentzer's I am through. Not only have you shown how low you will go to TRY and prove a point - as misguided as they are - but you obviously lack the fundamental knowledge about what caused their sudden demise.

    "Try your BB'ing without ANY supplementation for a year. No protein, EFAs, Creatine, Glucosamine, NOX, BCAAs or anything else."

    Lastly, I do train supplement free, have done for years. So where does that leave your "supplement based" mindset!
     
  13. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Bryan, Dan, someone please lock up this thread

    This is one disappointing way of discussing scientific matters.

    It has become non-scientific and worst of all, personal, insulting and just not in the true HST way at all. [​IMG]

    Remember guys we have already lost Old & Grey because of non-sense like this :mad:
     
  14. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Every human being on the planet can be traced back to Africa. It's been done. Modern theory at the moment asserts that what we once had deemed to be a "race" is actually a falsity. That's how closely related (genetically) humans are.

    Consider the first 39,500 years of human existence. Maybe even the first 39,900 - up until ~ 1900. Life on this planet has always been survival of the fittest. Brains and brawn added together. Physically inferior phenotypes do not survive. Not in jungles, deserts, forests, an ice age, diseased civilisation and so on.

    People are people. Yes, there are limiting diseases/conditions that would be classified as severe - CF or DMD for instance - but the only real limiting factors that are genetic (IMO) are height (6'3 will have potential for more absolute LBM than 5'10) and metabolic - how much energy you need to consume.

    You're a human. You don't have sub-par genetics that mean you can't reach the same size as Mentzer (I use him as he seems to be your poster boy) or a more relevant natural trainee. Individual muscles may be shaped differently - compare Arnold's biceps/triceps to Sergio's, but both had 20inch guns.

    I can't seriously believe that a significant difference in neural capabilities or number of muscle fibres, satelite cells, protein syntheis rates etc. exists.
     
  15. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I'm not insulting the memory of Mike or Ray Mentzer. Merely reminding you that they were not physical gods - in appearance or health.

    If you're finished, you're finished...if you decide to revise this thread at any time, I once again ask for theory and/or evidence... doesn't it strike you odd that nothing from anyone on your board has been presented...?

    Fausto, I respect what you're saying...but re-read the whole thread if you like. Who made this personal? And made my age a number proportional to my intelligence? Who started going on about their wartime heroics? Started calling every other respondent a clown/jester?

    Personally I find it disappointing that nothing has been presented as the claims made by those we've heard from are intriguing. This is the catch about having a discussion, there needs to be something discussed... and quite obviously, there isn't.
     
  16. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Jester

    It still should not have become what it is.

    Disagreement exists since the beggining of time, thus "the great controversy".

    War, however or throwing of names, whomever the culprit might be does not endorse us going against Bryan's wishes in order to keep this website what it is.

    So let us uphold the good name of this site and move on.....

    I promise you I'll come back with something about my own J-reps experiment soon, only and only if it indeed gives me something to shout about from the rooftop of HST fromm which all of us can then benefit!

    'nough said [​IMG]
     
  17. Allright let's stay on track. I don't want to close this thread or start deleting posts but unless there is something else to be said that is beneficial I think it may be time.

    Dan
     
  18. AShortt

    AShortt New Member

    How about the stuff I added at the end of page 11!?

    Regards,
    Andrew
     
  19. Although it really didn't address the points/questions I had initially asked it was at least on topic and not a flame session, so thanks.

    Dan
     
  20. AShortt

    AShortt New Member

    Dan (dkm1987),

    I haven’t followed this thread from the beginning (there are pages and pages or nitter-natter), thus I may be missing your points and questions. What can I answer “specifically” for you?

    I’m not trying to make arguments where there are none, nor am I trying to sell anything. In fact, my contribution to the book in question was offered gratis! That is how useful and effective I found this methodology. It can be utilized regardless of what workout scheme you use and suits any form of equipment.

    Regards,
    Andrew
     

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