RAW MEAT EATERS

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by wisslewj, Apr 18, 2007.

  1. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Hi guys,

    I am newer here and just wondered if anyone besides me eats raw meat and fat?

    I have always been quite a hardgainer, lucky to gain a pound here and there. However, since starting on the raw meat AND working out, I have added 20 lbs of muscle in the 8 week routine I just finished. I have reached a pleateu now and that is why I am trying HST.

    However, I am amazed at how much easier muscle gaining became on the raw meat and fat. I know the vast health benefits and science of it, but as a hardgainer I was skeptical of its power to add muscle. However, I can now say that it adds not only muscle but keeps one very cut as well if one stays away from grains and such things.

    I did notice that this muscle gain ONLY happened when I trained. I have been doing raw foods for about 5 months now. I only began gaining this last 2 months when I returned to training. So while some say raw meat will make you muscled without training, I think thats some BS! But it WILL build muscle fast when you are training with it.

    Have the other raw meaters here had the same experiences? Perhaps any pointers that may help even more?

    Jeff
     
  2. the_dark_master

    the_dark_master New Member

    Wiss, please tell me that raw chicken isn't on the menu - in common with pork, it has bacteria runnin all the way thru' it; and is the main reason why it has to be cooked thoroughly. [​IMG]

    Hell, don't go dying on us...
     
  3. I've never heard of the vast health benefits of raw meat.

    I know lots of folks eat raw fish, and beef tar tar is supposed to taste very good.
     
  4. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Hey Dark,

    Lol. I have no fear of bacteria. In fact, in PROPERLLY raised animals, ie. 100% grass fed cows, pastured chicken that gets no GMO's or soy etc, there is no reason to worry as bacteria is quite low.

    Also, Pasteur was so wrong about the germ theory and bacteria that its almost laughable. There is so much science that shows that bacterai is actually the clean up crews in our bodies and highly needed. In fact bacteria is not static but dynamic.

    For example, salmonella, which is always in the gut only grows out of control in an unhealthy gut to affect cleanup. After this is done, the salmonella can transmutate into red blood cells, other friendly bacteria, etc.

    In fact there is even a study where a scicentist was injecting cancer patients with bacteria (I belive it was salmonella) and they were all recovering! In fact there are alot of solid scientists that have "cured" cancer by amazing multitudes by allowing the body to heal itself through the use of bacteria. Dr Mercola in fact actually uses a raw meat diet to affect healing of cancer patients, though he doesnt advertise this. My buddys brother was healed via Mercola and raw meat was abundent! lol.

    If you want to understand the benefits of bacteria better, you can study "pleomorphism" as it relates to bacteria. (Not to be confused with an aspect of cancer that uses a similar language for something totally different)

    In fact....I may have an old link to get ya started....

    http://members.iimetro.com.au/[email protected]/pleomorphism.htm

    That will help get ya started. I have known people eating raw meats for years and years and there health just gets better and better. I myself have been experiencing this and I love it!

    Also, if you want to know more just ask on here or feel free to call me in person to discuss it as it can become tedious to type out all the stuff in a timely fasion. Whichever you prefer.

    God Bless
    jeff

    PS: I do stay away from pork altogether as it contains a particulary nasty tapeworm that doesnt die even die when cooked. Since most convetionaly raised pigs are fed a VERY objectional diet, I would never eat them raw or cooked. Properlly raised ones might be just fine, but I am still squeamish. I think there was a good reason that God said to avoid pigs and shellfish. The science shows that they harbor all sorts of toxins in their meats beyond just parasites and bacteria.

    However, that said, there are very healthy historical cultures that have lived quite healthfully on raw shellfish and pork. So, that said, I guess its up to the consumer to test it out.
     
  5. 1. Mercola is a crack-nut.
    2. Yes, sure, I`m gonna dip into some bacteria right away...I knew that was keeping me from greatness.
    3. Eating raw-meat is gross and pointless, unless you`re also wearing a leopard skin and swinging a club in order to scare off wooly mammoths.
    4. What is the exact purpose of what you`re saying?In fact, since you probably know better than almost everyone here, what is the exact purpose of the gang promoting eating wild berries and roots and raw meat?If you think Conan grew on those, you`re wrong you know [​IMG]
     
  6. bluejacket

    bluejacket New Member

    this is going to spin out of control very quickly so ill get in now before it goes off on a tangent.

    ive heard of raw eating but not much about raw protein other then fish. granted, i havent looked into it at all but ive only heard of the vast health risks (bacteria etc.) of raw meat not the "vast health benefits" you mention.

    this is obviously something you feel strongly about and have invested some time and research in and feel youve gotten some good results from. one word of advice, for everyones sake, please be as specific as possible and cite references where possible. absent those, people start assuming things, making claims, stating opinions and the next thing you know this thread is about meat vs vegi, lactose intolerance, evol. vs creationism and what noahs ark was really made out of.

    ******
    ok, i see youve responded as i was typing. ill leave my post "as is". im not sure youll get many converts, but thats ok. im betting it will be an interesting thread none the less.

    congrats on the gains so far.
     
  7. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    ETOT,

    The benefits are quite vast actually. far too vast to go all into here. But a few that have been well researched and experienced by myself are the following:

    -far more bio-available and useful to the body, hence less needed.
    -easy digestion due to presence of enzymes. (This was very noticable with beef for me)
    -Raw beef has creatine in it as well BCAA and are all far more bio available.
    -muscle gains far easier and heal VERY fast
    -helps build bodily systems and vastly boosts immune system.

    *cooked food has actually been shown to have a similar immune response as poisons, albeit to a lesser degree. When cooked food is eaten, the immune system responds by kicking out more white blood cells and a few other things. Researchers have shown it is the exact same response by the immune system that occurs when someone eats toxins. This doesnt occur with raw foods. The end result is that one taxes thier immune system needlessly.

    -Finally, raw meat has been used to bring about allowing the body to cure itself of cancer. The raw and uncoagulated proteins allow the body to begin boosting the immune system as well as rebuilding damaged organs.

    As I said, the benefits are quite vast and the scicen is quite sound. Also, before cooking pots and fire, we would have had to eat our foods raw. In fact, the eskimos eat there meat as "high" meat often. High meat is meat that has been sitting around for a few months and looks and smells AWFUL.

    Again, quite a large number have used this to allow their bodies to heal cancer. Its all about what bacteria does in the body. (By the way, I havent tried high meat yet as it smells so foul I couldnt bring myself to it. By I know plenty that do eat it and they are quite healthy)

    As for me, I have noticed alot of energy, great muscle gains, endurance went way up naturally, digestion improved ALOT and I never ever get sick. I heal VERY fast after workouts and seem to continue to get stronger every week lol. I am sure that will taper at some point. Point is, I have seem many benefits from well being to muscle gains.

    Many people think that just because people are buff they are healthy. This is so far from true. Eating for health should come first and that naturally leads to easy muscle gains. I have been studying biology, chemisry, quantum mechanics etc for years and years and I am convinced from all my study that raw meat, fat. and greens is the way to go for health and weight lifting.

    If you want to get into more detail or want help actually eating this way, you can call me as that will be easier and I will help ya. (its free lol) I know it took me a long while and alot of research to get this understood so I am happy to speed up the process for others interested.

    God Bless
    Jeff
     
  8. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Hey Folks,

    I am not attempting to make converts lol. I started this post asking if there were any others here as that was my main question.

    I also offered to answer any questions people may have. Just like people may not understand HST that havent studied it, many people think that the masses are right about raw meat when in fact, the research shows they are quite wrong and totally misunderstand the poiint of bacteria.

    That said, my purpose was NOT to convert. I am happy though to answer questions to those of you that have an open and curious mind like me and want to search out things.

    Besides all the science, my own results speak for themself since my health has only vastly improved and I have FINALLY been able to easily gain muscle.

    So, if you have questions...great I will help. If you disagree with me, explain why and we can discuss it scientifically if you want or just ignore me as I will not fight back and forth with people just for the sake of fighting. That is pointless and serves no purpose.

    Thanks so much
    Jeff
     
  9. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    Interesting...gross, but interesting. [​IMG]
     
  10. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (wisslewj @ Apr. 18 2007,10:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">However, I am amazed at how much easier muscle gaining became on the raw meat and fat. I know the vast health benefits and science of it, but as a hardgainer I was skeptical of its power to add muscle. However, I can now say that it adds not only muscle but keeps one very cut as well if one stays away from grains and such things.

    I did notice that this muscle gain ONLY happened when I trained. I have been doing raw foods for about 5 months now. I only began gaining this last 2 months when I returned to training. So while some say raw meat will make you muscled without training, I think thats some BS! But it WILL build muscle fast when you are training with it.</div>
    I just... I was going to stay out of this, because I know a lot about food safety, food borne bacteria, etc, being in the food industry... so obviously I think eating raw meat is completely retarded, but... seriously...

    This doesn't make any sense. Why would you build muscle on this diet, just because of the diet? You do know that gaining weight only happens when you are getting a calorie excess, right? And that you can't build muscle without gaining weight, unless you are already very fat.
    Right? Just to be sure we are on the same page here.
     
  11. You know ****, the industry is lying to us, man was born to run around butt naked and to eat swamp moss and raw meat, coz some proto-humans used to do it and...well, we know they was super duper healthy and stuff(don`t we?). And they were big and muscular. And the industry is da evil, you just wantz our moneyz when we(all of the 6 friggin billions on the planet) could live just fine with no cooked, non-conserved stuff. Really.

    To the OP:could you at least post 1(out of the hundreds upon hundreds of studies, those that are too vast to post here) study that even remotely shows a benefit derived from eating raw meat?Or, alternately, showing raw food consumption curing cancer?Not some doofus article written by brain-damaged Mercola, de Vany or similar types, but peer-reviewed scientific research. And don`t tell me that the scientific community is afraid of the truth, because I really really won`t believe you.
     
  12. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    Cooking food destroys it and turns it into poison? WTF? [​IMG]
     
  13. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Tote,

    I understand well what you are saying, but it isnt quite as staright forward as it may seem. Without getting to in depth, let me just explain a little.

    Cooked meat (and almost all cooked foods) become quite denatured and destroy all enzymes. (cooked fat is quite awful but fat is so good for you when raw) This forces your body to have to work ALOT harder to digest your food and absorb nutrients. This results in you using far more energy (calories) to digest the food you are eating. Hence you have to eat ALOT to gain muscle and support it. And the more you eat, the more free radicals your body creates. Science has shown that calorie restricted diets are far healthier. However, as body builders we need to eat.

    Hence, eating efficiently is far more healthful and useful. Since we need protein for muscles but not so much as to tax the kidneys, quality is key. Raw meat is VERY bio available and VERY easily digested. Hence less calories are needed as well as less protein because you are using far more of it.

    Add to this some training and muscle building becomes much easier because you are giving the body very easy to use materials that dont expend vast amounts of energy to take in. Healing becomes ultra fast and so you can train again much sooner and hence build more.

    For the average person today that grew up eating crap food like McDonalds, the digestive system is weak and hence muscle gain becomes quite difficult since the material are already so denatured by the heat that their weak diegstive system can get enough materials out of the food. Some people naturally have powerful digestion and they can just take in more food to get the needed materials.

    However, even these people would VASTLY benefit from the raw meat as they wouldnt need to eat as much.

    Heck, even Vince Gironda advocated raw meat and he trained tons of champs.

    I could get into alot more science here and biochemical reactions that show the benefits of raw foods over cooked...and we can do that if you want...but for now I hope this answers your question in a simple fasion.

    Lastly, Tote, I would never eat the meat raw from a comercial animal as they are so pumped with hormones, drugs, etc its ridiculous. Cooked or raw these are quite unhealthy. In fact, many dont know this, but a cow that is 100% grass fed is VASTLY superior to a commercial cow in nutritional content and hence muscle and health building materials.

    Cows fed grains actually produce a heat resistant and immune resistant strain of ecoli in the cows stomach and eventually the meat. This should be no suprise since cows are not designed to eat grains but grass. You then eat this cow and get along with it the hormones, antibiotics and ecoli's.

    So yes, you are right, commercial cows are FILTHY! I wouldnt eat them raw ever!

    If you guys are interesed in healthy cows and animals, you can go to: www.eatwild.com and look up your state. There are farmers all over the USA that raise animals the right way that you can buy from. And if yoy buy in bulk (1/4 a cow for example) the price is REALLY cheap for beef. I pay 3.25$/Lb for beef, all cuts. So Filet Mignon for 3.25 a pound. THATS cheap! lol and so much a higher quality. Even if you do decide to cook your meat, the grassfed stuff is still so much better.

    Ok, I have rambled on now.....
    Sorry and God Bless,
    Jeff
     
  14. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Margoth,

    As I said before, I am not here to win converts so I will not engage in &quot;fighting&quot; debate. If you are interested in understanding the benefits of bacteria and hence raw foods, look at the link I gave on pleomorphism as that is a good start to understanding the science. You can also read about people like Dr. Naessans (sp?) who mapped out the somatid cycle showing how bactria transmutates.

    Your rants would be like me knocking HST without any understanding of the scicen behind it. In fact, its only BECAUSE I understand the biochemical responses of muscle that I think its a good idea to try it as its based on sound principles. There is no way for me to explain all the multitudes of biochemical responses and research of bacteria in a line or 2.

    I will help answer any questions, but as with anything, you can knock what you dont understand, ignore it, or seek out more info on it. I dont care which you choose honestly. But lets just be respectful of each other and not judge what we dont know or havent studied.

    Cussing at one another demonstrates ignorance and is really pointless. Please lets just be civil and get along in a grown up fashion.

    Thanks and God Bless
    Jeff
     
  15. I grew up eating and continue to eat -Kibbeh which is Raw Lamb and Carpaccio-Raw.Beef.

    I never got nor do I get sick.
     
  16. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Heyya Sci,

    When one eats toxins like poisons or anything toxic, the immmune system responds by producing excess lukecytes to deal with these toxins. It also increases body tempature to burn out the toxins as well as a few other responses.

    The net result of constant exposure to poisons is that it greatly taxes the immune system and uses excess energy and bodily resources to maintain health and homeostasis.

    Research has demonstarted that when one eats cooked foods of any sort, the body reacts in the exact way stated above. In other words the reaction of the immune system is the same as if the body just ate some type of toxin or poison.

    Research has also shown that this doesnt occur when raw food is eaten. So rather then tax the immune system, the materials consumed are free to better bolster and build up the bodily system.

    It gets a bit more complex on the chemical level but that is the gist of it anyway.

    Also, one thing that many dont think about is that there is just as much risk of bacteria from raw veggies as there is raw meats. Many eat raw veggies without thinking twice. I think its just taboo that we dont eat meat.

    In fact, most cultures other then the US regularly eat raw meats as part of their diet.

    Finally the exposure to bacteria from raw foods actually bolsters the immune system so that the immune system becomes quite powerful. Oppisettly, it has been shown that people eating little raw food and sanitizing everything have much weaker immune systems since they are never exposed to things that force their immune systems to grow.

    If raw meat freaks ya out, start with lots of raw veggies at least. Or even raw organic eggs - yolks especially as they are the healthiest. (LOTS of bodybuilders have eaten these! They are quite healthy!) Its a good start to getting alot of good bio avaialable nutrients. ;)

    Hope that helps.
    Jeff
     
  17. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    I eat raw fish quite a bit, and fruits and veggies. Raw chicken usually stinks and would probably put me in the ER.

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When one eats toxins like poisons or anything toxic, the immmune system responds by producing excess lukecytes to deal with these toxins. It also increases body tempature to burn out the toxins as well as a few other responses.

    The net result of constant exposure to poisons is that it greatly taxes the immune system and uses excess energy and bodily resources to maintain health and homeostasis.

    Research has demonstarted that when one eats cooked foods of any sort, the body reacts in the exact way stated above. In other words the reaction of the immune system is the same as if the body just ate some type of toxin or poison.

    Research has also shown that this doesnt occur when raw food is eaten. So rather then tax the immune system, the materials consumed are free to better bolster and build up the bodily system.</div>
    Could you point me out to which research papers you are refering to?
     
  18. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I just... I was going to stay out of this, because I know a lot about food safety, food borne bacteria, etc, being in the food industry... so obviously I think eating raw meat is completely retarded, but... seriously...</div>

    Like most topics on this board, I completely agree with Totentanz. It is just plain stupid to do so. I've been a bit liberal with my leftovers and how long I wait till I throw them out, even with the microwave on handy. However, I just recovered from a 2 week bacterial infection. Have fun constantly dealing with that.

    I remember some guy here two years ago yapping off about raw meat and bodybuilding and how natural it was. He had a website too?
     
  19. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Hey Sci,

    Its been some time since I have read this research.  I typically read a few book a week as well as many research and study papers so it may take me some time to dig it up from all the info.  But give me some time and I will see if I can locate it again.

    Colby,

    if one succumbs to a bacterial infection, based upon the concept of pleomorphism, it is because the immune system is too weak.  The &quot;sickness&quot; response is the result of the body using the bacteria to purge itself of accumilated toxins.  Basically, it is a detox reaction.

    Now, dont misunderstand, if the immune system is weak, the detox could be too aggressive and detrimental to health.  This is easily remmedied by eating some basic herbs that boost immune systems and neutralize excess bacteria.  Once the immune system is strengthened, &quot;bad&quot; bacteria is transmuted into useful materials for the body.  (Remember you ALWAYS have salmonella and ecoli in your gut.  Its used to putrify proteins and other undigested wastes.  In other words, without it you would actually get sick and die!)

    Finally, the reason WHY people cannot deal with simple and basic bacetria these days is that we sanatize everything so much that we have actually prevented our immune systems from becoming the robust thing its meant to be.

    Again, look at the zillion of other cultures that regularly eat raw meats.  They are perfectly healthy. In fact many of them eat meat that is a month or more old and covered in loads of bacteria. It is considered a major health food to these cultures and has been used by more then a few people to allow the body to remove cancer and other diseases. I know it sounds sick, but the fact is, they eat it and they are not just fine, they are robustly healthy.

    When the meat is from a properly fed animal, there really is no concern other then progressing slowly until your immune system is built up as it is meant to be.  You can progess fast, but the detox of the accumulated toxins is also faster and not always enjoyable. lol.

    Jeff

    PS:  I almost forgot to mention before that one huge factor I have noticed from the raw meat is a huge increase in testosterone.  I havent confirmed this with blood work, but lets just say there are other ..er...ways..I can tell lol.  Just food for thought.
     
  20. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (wisslewj @ Apr. 18 2007,16:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Finally, the reason WHY people cannot deal with simple and basic bacetria these days is that we sanatize everything so much that we have actually prevented our immune systems from becoming the robust thing its meant to be.</div>
    That explains why people never died from bacterial infections, etc etc before the advent of sanitization.

    Oh wait, people were dying in hordes back then from that kind of stuff. Oops.
    Some bacteria might beneficial in your intestine, but that doesn't mean it's beneficial in your stomach or anywhere else.
    Stomach acid is great when in your stomach. Try holding it in your hand.

    I guess all those kids who were fortunate enough to survive a brush with E. Coli 0517 just decided that it might be fun to be on kidney dialysis for the rest of their lives.

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
    Again, look at the zillion of other cultures that regularly eat raw meats. They are perfectly healthy.
    </div>

    People die all over the world.

    Animals that eat meat raw (anything but humans, right?) still die from bacteria, etc.
     

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