I have been cutting for one year and nine months now - that's like forever and a little bit. But the point is that the weights on the bar have always gotten up - never down. On the other hand, I'm sure I'd be able to lift heavier weights if I hadn't been cutting for so long. So ultimately, I agree that it's more important to be lean than strong.
Sci's "Simplify & Win" log
- Thread starter scientific muscle
- Start date
I think being lean is the way to go, but like sci says you look so thin in clothes.(Unless your're HUUUGE) Nothing irks me more than busting your a@# and someone asking you, Are you alright? You're so skinny! I think that right there is a driving force to put on "just ten more pounds".
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(BAX67 @ Mar. 24 2008,20:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I think being lean is the way to go, but like sci says you look so thin in clothes.</div>
That's why you need to know a good tailor, or perhaps just wear UnderArmor under a nice jacket...
(BAX67 @ Mar. 24 2008,20:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I think being lean is the way to go, but like sci says you look so thin in clothes.</div>
That's why you need to know a good tailor, or perhaps just wear UnderArmor under a nice jacket...
I don't know, if you have size in the right muscles, you can look like you lift even when you are lean. Traps and arms can make you look impressive even when you are thin. It also helps if you don't have tiny legs. I see guys like this all the time who wear jeans that are so big, it looks like two broomsticks moving around inside.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
I can tell you from a die hard lifter standpoint and now from a career/ 2 year old / 2 to 3 times a week lifter standpoint.
My best gains physique gains have come from listening to you guys!
Actually a long time ago Totentanz made a great (but not popular) point that basically there is no difference between clean or dirty foods.
Given at this time I used to eat OCD (obsessive compulsize bodybuilder clean) foods.
I looked worst then than I do now...and I eat whatever I want now! So...thats just food for thought.
Also my best gains have came this cycle of training that I have recieved in a long time.
And this cycle has been screwed up and non frequent about 2 a week training.
So for me the ability to train closer to failure (like Sci is doing) but not train as frequently plus eating at about maintenance and a little over has caused me to put on some new muscle and keep the waist the same!
My weight is up about 7 pounds this cycle of training and my bodyfat is the exact same...so maybe I got lucky ...whos knows?
Im just saying eating with common sense a little bit above maintenace and twice a week training has given my body the little bit of push it needed???
All that being said it looks like Sci has finally found the best routine (at least for now that has given him solid results!)
Keep at it Sci you have made phenomonal results in a very short time frame and I have a feeling you are about to get this dieting thing down 100% with your knowledge and dedication!
My best gains physique gains have come from listening to you guys!
Actually a long time ago Totentanz made a great (but not popular) point that basically there is no difference between clean or dirty foods.
Given at this time I used to eat OCD (obsessive compulsize bodybuilder clean) foods.
I looked worst then than I do now...and I eat whatever I want now! So...thats just food for thought.
Also my best gains have came this cycle of training that I have recieved in a long time.
And this cycle has been screwed up and non frequent about 2 a week training.
So for me the ability to train closer to failure (like Sci is doing) but not train as frequently plus eating at about maintenance and a little over has caused me to put on some new muscle and keep the waist the same!
My weight is up about 7 pounds this cycle of training and my bodyfat is the exact same...so maybe I got lucky ...whos knows?
Im just saying eating with common sense a little bit above maintenace and twice a week training has given my body the little bit of push it needed???
All that being said it looks like Sci has finally found the best routine (at least for now that has given him solid results!)
Keep at it Sci you have made phenomonal results in a very short time frame and I have a feeling you are about to get this dieting thing down 100% with your knowledge and dedication!
All I know is that the only time people come up and say stuff or grab my arms is when I'm on a bulk. For me, it's size matters, but there's a point where I can't stand myself in the mirror, so I'm back to the cut.
Others prefer to stay under a certain bf% for asthetics they like and I think that's okay. Some prefer to stay low bf to gain more lean mass, but I don't see the point if no one notices unless you purely do this just for yourself, which few do. We all have a bit of healthy ego, or we wouldn't brush our hair or teeth.
Besides, my lady likes her protection, especially since we're a salt and pepper couple.
Others prefer to stay under a certain bf% for asthetics they like and I think that's okay. Some prefer to stay low bf to gain more lean mass, but I don't see the point if no one notices unless you purely do this just for yourself, which few do. We all have a bit of healthy ego, or we wouldn't brush our hair or teeth.
Besides, my lady likes her protection, especially since we're a salt and pepper couple.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
I also think that Age has something to do with this.
At my age the so called "competition" run around looking like lean ripped guys...so naturally to feed my ego as quad says I try to stay in the game somewhat. I would by lying if I said differently.
However I have always invisioned myself lean like I am now at this stage in my life and I also have invisioned myself slowing bulking up naturally due to older age and slower metablosim as I get older.
So to answer the question honestly ABS or the ripped look is something I think I would desire more at this stage in my life and the Bulkier "thick" look quad is talking about is kind of what I picture myself 20 years from now!
I have always thought comparing yourself to your peers just gets easier for us lifters with age.
For example what is considered in great shape at 20 years old is a realistic and very attainable bodyfat and ripped physique of 6 to 7% bodyfat.
But for a 50 year old a lean and hard physique at 15% bodyfat is to me in my eyes just as good if not better than the 20 year old body given the age difference.
At my age the so called "competition" run around looking like lean ripped guys...so naturally to feed my ego as quad says I try to stay in the game somewhat. I would by lying if I said differently.
However I have always invisioned myself lean like I am now at this stage in my life and I also have invisioned myself slowing bulking up naturally due to older age and slower metablosim as I get older.
So to answer the question honestly ABS or the ripped look is something I think I would desire more at this stage in my life and the Bulkier "thick" look quad is talking about is kind of what I picture myself 20 years from now!
I have always thought comparing yourself to your peers just gets easier for us lifters with age.
For example what is considered in great shape at 20 years old is a realistic and very attainable bodyfat and ripped physique of 6 to 7% bodyfat.
But for a 50 year old a lean and hard physique at 15% bodyfat is to me in my eyes just as good if not better than the 20 year old body given the age difference.
At age 40, I’m in much better shape than at any time in my life. And I’m in better shape than most men half my age. True, I’m still a little fat, but that’s relative. Some people are already joking about coming up with a “food donation” for me. From time to time, I get some “compliments” from female students, too – something that never happened when I was 90 pounds heavier, short of breath, etc. etc. You get the picture…
Every single day when I start rope jumping, people stop to watch me. They just can’t believe someone my age can be that fit. Some come up and ask whether I’m a boxer or something like that. And yes, those who do talk to me are mostly female and under 20. I guess that means something. And it’s motivation like hell …
Every single day when I start rope jumping, people stop to watch me. They just can’t believe someone my age can be that fit. Some come up and ask whether I’m a boxer or something like that. And yes, those who do talk to me are mostly female and under 20. I guess that means something. And it’s motivation like hell …
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Good job Xfatman!
scientific muscle
New Member
I sort of took this week off. As I posted earlier, I started this log at the end of a bulking cycle and my progress has hit a plateau. I was overtrained with the high-intensity and because of fatigue, I took 6 days completely off from lifting. Today I started a new HST cycle (skipping 15s) with some light 10s. Felt very good.
Bench: 155 3x10
WG Row: 130 3x10
Deads: 225 1x10...one set was all I could manage...I need to do these first next time.
Finished off with some very light, super-strict lateral raises for the rotator cuff.
I think I will do these lighter workouts more frequently a la HST, while continuing to do the heavy SST stuff infrequently retesting my maxes.
Simplified FTW!
Bench: 155 3x10
WG Row: 130 3x10
Deads: 225 1x10...one set was all I could manage...I need to do these first next time.
Finished off with some very light, super-strict lateral raises for the rotator cuff.
I think I will do these lighter workouts more frequently a la HST, while continuing to do the heavy SST stuff infrequently retesting my maxes.
Simplified FTW!
I
imported_fearfactory
Guest
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Mar. 28 2008,23:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I took 6 days completely off from lifting.</div>
could this be construed as an SD?
(scientific muscle @ Mar. 28 2008,23:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I took 6 days completely off from lifting.</div>
could this be construed as an SD?
scientific muscle
New Member
<div>
(fearfactory @ Mar. 29 2008,12:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(scientific muscle @ Mar. 28 2008,23:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I took 6 days completely off from lifting.</div>
could this be construed as an SD?
</div>
I believe "SD" as practiced is great for recovery from the chronic stress and damage that occurs in training. So doing vanilla HST as outlined is perfectly valid...there is no doubt that the physiological system as a whole gets much needed repair and regeneration during time off....but deconditioning? Not so sure.
(fearfactory @ Mar. 29 2008,12:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(scientific muscle @ Mar. 28 2008,23:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I took 6 days completely off from lifting.</div>
could this be construed as an SD?
I believe "SD" as practiced is great for recovery from the chronic stress and damage that occurs in training. So doing vanilla HST as outlined is perfectly valid...there is no doubt that the physiological system as a whole gets much needed repair and regeneration during time off....but deconditioning? Not so sure.
Just a thot man, but I recall others and have experienced myself strength GAINS after a week or more off. It occurs to me that the delineating factor in an SD may be strength LOSS, which would take more time off from training. I'm not sure though, but it sure sounds good, huh?
<div>
(quadancer @ Mar. 29 2008,18:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just a thot man, but I recall others and have experienced myself strength GAINS after a week or more off. It occurs to me that the delineating factor in an SD may be strength LOSS, which would take more time off from training. I'm not sure though, but it sure sounds good, huh?</div>
Well, veteran lifters seem to have strength gains after a long SD which goes against first intuition. Maybe some discussion can be made in one of the new research forums?
(quadancer @ Mar. 29 2008,18:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just a thot man, but I recall others and have experienced myself strength GAINS after a week or more off. It occurs to me that the delineating factor in an SD may be strength LOSS, which would take more time off from training. I'm not sure though, but it sure sounds good, huh?</div>
Well, veteran lifters seem to have strength gains after a long SD which goes against first intuition. Maybe some discussion can be made in one of the new research forums?
scientific muscle
New Member
Alright, even after Saturday's light workout, my CNS was still fried from last bulking cycle. I took more time to rest and today I am officially starting my new cycle fresh.
Of course, it will be super-simplified with only basic compounds. I decided to follow Starr's 5x5 program with weekly cycles, light, medium, heavy days 3x/week using ramping sets, its very similar to HST in a lot of ways.
Since this past week or two has basically been an SD prelude to the new cycle, I ate at maintenance and actually gained a little bit of weight. I will start cutting now that SD is over.
Weight: 200 lb.s
Anyway, here goes, today was 'medium' day and since its a new cycle I am starting with very conservative weights, they will accelerate quickly to my real 5RMs soon (well at least on 'heavy' days, the others are purposely submax kind of like weekly HST cycles).
Deadlift: 200x5, 215x5, 230x5, 240x5, 255x5.
Bench Press: 135x5, 145x5, 155x5, 165x5, 175x5
WG Row: 135x5, 145x5, 155x5, 165x5, 175x5
Nice and easy. Sunday will be a 'heavy' day, tuesday a 'light' day for recovery.
Hoping to see some PRs this cycle, I will be purposely cutting slow this time to save muscle and strength.
Of course, it will be super-simplified with only basic compounds. I decided to follow Starr's 5x5 program with weekly cycles, light, medium, heavy days 3x/week using ramping sets, its very similar to HST in a lot of ways.
Since this past week or two has basically been an SD prelude to the new cycle, I ate at maintenance and actually gained a little bit of weight. I will start cutting now that SD is over.
Weight: 200 lb.s
Anyway, here goes, today was 'medium' day and since its a new cycle I am starting with very conservative weights, they will accelerate quickly to my real 5RMs soon (well at least on 'heavy' days, the others are purposely submax kind of like weekly HST cycles).
Deadlift: 200x5, 215x5, 230x5, 240x5, 255x5.
Bench Press: 135x5, 145x5, 155x5, 165x5, 175x5
WG Row: 135x5, 145x5, 155x5, 165x5, 175x5
Nice and easy. Sunday will be a 'heavy' day, tuesday a 'light' day for recovery.
Hoping to see some PRs this cycle, I will be purposely cutting slow this time to save muscle and strength.
9to5lifter
New Member
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just a thot man, but I recall others and have experienced myself strength GAINS after a week or more off. It occurs to me that the delineating factor in an SD may be strength LOSS, which would take more time off from training. I'm not sure though, but it sure sounds good, huh? </div>
Sounds like CNS-related to me. An extra week off can probably help toward this direction. Much like what is prescribed before the "intensity" phase in 5x5-like programs.
Sounds like CNS-related to me. An extra week off can probably help toward this direction. Much like what is prescribed before the "intensity" phase in 5x5-like programs.
Well, yes it is. That's the point of it, after maxing out a cycle. The comparable method is a deload period, usually a week of lighter lifting. And some think that is just as good, but I think it depends on the individual and his/her recovery abilities.
But with no exersize at all in SD, things eventually go downhill rather than maintaining strength. But those first days off are recuperative and you can gain strength; the question is who will and who won't after maxing out. I don't as far as I know, unless I've beat myself up badly, but that's not gaining more strength, it's recovering what I've lost at the end before giving it up.
But with no exersize at all in SD, things eventually go downhill rather than maintaining strength. But those first days off are recuperative and you can gain strength; the question is who will and who won't after maxing out. I don't as far as I know, unless I've beat myself up badly, but that's not gaining more strength, it's recovering what I've lost at the end before giving it up.
<div>
(quadancer @ Apr. 04 2008,23:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, yes it is. That's the point of it, after maxing out a cycle. The comparable method is a deload period, usually a week of lighter lifting. And some think that is just as good, but I think it depends on the individual and his/her recovery abilities.
But with no exersize at all in SD, things eventually go downhill rather than maintaining strength. But those first days off are recuperative and you can gain strength; the question is who will and who won't after maxing out. I don't as far as I know, unless I've beat myself up badly, but that's not gaining more strength, it's recovering what I've lost at the end before giving it up.</div>
i tend to have a full weeks rest and then ease myself back in with 15's, which i think are valuble at this point imo.
(quadancer @ Apr. 04 2008,23:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, yes it is. That's the point of it, after maxing out a cycle. The comparable method is a deload period, usually a week of lighter lifting. And some think that is just as good, but I think it depends on the individual and his/her recovery abilities.
But with no exersize at all in SD, things eventually go downhill rather than maintaining strength. But those first days off are recuperative and you can gain strength; the question is who will and who won't after maxing out. I don't as far as I know, unless I've beat myself up badly, but that's not gaining more strength, it's recovering what I've lost at the end before giving it up.</div>
i tend to have a full weeks rest and then ease myself back in with 15's, which i think are valuble at this point imo.
scientific muscle
New Member
Yes, I think the concept of practicing SD and then the 15s makes sense in a periodized type of way. Your CNS and tissue is stressed to exhaustion after a long HST cycle ending with PRs and/or negatives-intensity training. The week or two off allows growth and recovery of tissue and CNS. Then the 15s ease your body back into the intensity of weightlifting.
The more I learn, the more I see that 'vanilla' HST really is a great program for training. But certain tweaks are helpful to customize the training for our unique goals. You can focus on one bodypart to get extra growth, or do more of a 5x5 or max-stim training or even olympic lifts to focus on functional strength.
Fun stuff.
The more I learn, the more I see that 'vanilla' HST really is a great program for training. But certain tweaks are helpful to customize the training for our unique goals. You can focus on one bodypart to get extra growth, or do more of a 5x5 or max-stim training or even olympic lifts to focus on functional strength.
Fun stuff.