Slapshotz' SST journal
- Thread starter Slapshotz
- Start date
How I currently look is irrelevant. But you're right, I'm a fat ass who doesn't have any abs, and I don't post many pictures because I hate the way I look. Oh the pain of the truth.
My point is... the facts say exactly the opposite of what you've said regarding refeeds.
Contrary to what you've said, it's when over you are 10% bodyfat that refeeds aren't really needed. At this point, the only point in doing a refeed would be to combat any metabolic slowdown that might have resulted from a very long cut, say if you are coming down from a very high bodyfat percentage. Even then, it's not really a refeed but more like a week long break from dieting that would be required.
But at this point, your hormones aren't going to be getting real messed up, and that is the main point of refeeds. Under 10% is when your body really struggles to keep ahold of the fat. All kinds of stuff happens - I don't know if you've even done any reading on this, but since I don't really feel like reiterating all of it since there probably isn't much chance of changing your stance anyway, I'll just direct you to http://www.bodyrecomposition.com since Lyle's already done all of the research, etc, and it's all posted on his site ad nauseum.
I'd also recommend reading the Ultimate Diet 2.0, since he talks about it in great deal. I could paste in the text here, but I don't want to, like, violate his trust or anything. I don't expect you to shell out the money for the book, but if you were inclined to, it is a very informative read.
I just think it is harmful for you to tell people not to do refeeds when the majority are going to need them to successfully get in the sub-10% range without losing tons of muscle. I believe your experience is atypical and obviously you are an exception in this regard. Maybe your set point is just lower, so you can get a lot leaner before your leptin levels, etc get all messed up. Maybe it is something else, who knows. Somehow, you can get down to a fairly lean state without being forced to employ refeeds.
But for most people, it is going to be nearly impossible to get into the sub-10% range without employing refeeds. This is speaking of people cutting naturally, of course.
However, this is all coming from someone who only has a four pack currently, so, like, you know, take it with a grain of salt.
My point is... the facts say exactly the opposite of what you've said regarding refeeds.
Contrary to what you've said, it's when over you are 10% bodyfat that refeeds aren't really needed. At this point, the only point in doing a refeed would be to combat any metabolic slowdown that might have resulted from a very long cut, say if you are coming down from a very high bodyfat percentage. Even then, it's not really a refeed but more like a week long break from dieting that would be required.
But at this point, your hormones aren't going to be getting real messed up, and that is the main point of refeeds. Under 10% is when your body really struggles to keep ahold of the fat. All kinds of stuff happens - I don't know if you've even done any reading on this, but since I don't really feel like reiterating all of it since there probably isn't much chance of changing your stance anyway, I'll just direct you to http://www.bodyrecomposition.com since Lyle's already done all of the research, etc, and it's all posted on his site ad nauseum.
I'd also recommend reading the Ultimate Diet 2.0, since he talks about it in great deal. I could paste in the text here, but I don't want to, like, violate his trust or anything. I don't expect you to shell out the money for the book, but if you were inclined to, it is a very informative read.
I just think it is harmful for you to tell people not to do refeeds when the majority are going to need them to successfully get in the sub-10% range without losing tons of muscle. I believe your experience is atypical and obviously you are an exception in this regard. Maybe your set point is just lower, so you can get a lot leaner before your leptin levels, etc get all messed up. Maybe it is something else, who knows. Somehow, you can get down to a fairly lean state without being forced to employ refeeds.
But for most people, it is going to be nearly impossible to get into the sub-10% range without employing refeeds. This is speaking of people cutting naturally, of course.
However, this is all coming from someone who only has a four pack currently, so, like, you know, take it with a grain of salt.
scientific muscle
New Member
Well Slapshotz, there are guys who got more lean than you using UD2 with pics to prove it at bodyrecomposition.com forum. I haven't read the book, but alot of people use it to get super-lean, I am talking fitness or bodybuilding stage lean. I have never been close to that lean, which is one reason why I didn't read it yet, a simple caloric deficit works to get to 10% or so as you said earlier.
scientific muscle
New Member
Here is a pic of a natural bodybuilder who uses UD2 for getting stage-lean.
Tot wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I just think it is harmful for you to tell people not to do refeeds when the majority are going to need them to successfully get in the sub-10% range without losing tons of muscle.</div>
I suggested no refeeds because, I believe, ildotter asked me what my strategy was, and do I use refeeds. I wasn't deliberately forcing my opinions on him. That is what sparked the discussion in the first place.
And let me be clear...I've gotten my information and strategical approach from a professional trainer, who personally worked me through my cut. He's a CSCS, LDN, and an RD to boot (registered dietician). An RD is not anything like a mere nutritionist. The blokes at Vitamine Shoppe call themselves "nutritionists". This trainer has numerous powerlifting titles under his belt, and has trained/does train professional bodybuilders and athletes. It's because of his tutilige that I'm no slouch in the strength department, either, by the way.
His stance? Refeeds are prohibitive in the manner you suggest...or Lyle, or U2D, or whatever it's called. Period. In his opinion, these things are just the "flavor of the month." Wait and see how much you're talking about refeeds in the next few years.
Now, you can point me to all the studies in the world saying the opposite, and you're right...it's doubtful that I will read them. My trainer tells me it's a bad idea, and that's the end of the discussion. And I know his opinion is nonbiassed becase he's not trying to sell me anything. My success is the bottom line, and he has the education, experience & knowlege to back up what he says.
Going from 15 to 10%? Fine, use refeeds, which are more a function of poor will power than absolute necessity. But refeed with carbs during the "final push" to 6-pack land, or, "stage ready"? Bad idea.
And lest you think otherwise, Tot, this is not a personal attack. All I'm saying to you is, I'm willing to bet you all the tea in China that you will never get to the level of leanness you want by using this approach. But here again, when you're done with your diet, post a pic showing the abs, and I'll tip my cap to you.
Sci wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well Slapshotz, there are guys who got more lean than you using UD2 with pics to prove it at bodyrecomposition.com forum. I haven't read the book, but alot of people use it to get super-lean, I am talking fitness or bodybuilding stage lean. I have never been close to that lean, which is one reason why I didn't read it yet, a simple caloric deficit works to get to 10% or so as you said earlier.</div>
I gotta laugh....sci, of course there are people leaner than me....just about everywhere there will always be people leaner than you, bigger than you, stronger than you, etc., but let me be clear: the only reason I didn't go down to the 3-4% range was the mental toll it was taking, and it would be hard for me to function in my everday life if I took that route. I believe I stated quite clearly that I took the diet as far as my will power was willing to go....which truly ends up being the case for most people, they just won't admit it.
So, go ahead and post all the pics you want of those who got ripped using refeeds....my point is, those people are not you, nor are they tot...and if you both end up getting shredded using that formula? I'll eat humble pie, and gladly apologize, and be genuinely happy for your success.
Now, it's time for lunch...20 grams of net carbs, don't you know
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I just think it is harmful for you to tell people not to do refeeds when the majority are going to need them to successfully get in the sub-10% range without losing tons of muscle.</div>
I suggested no refeeds because, I believe, ildotter asked me what my strategy was, and do I use refeeds. I wasn't deliberately forcing my opinions on him. That is what sparked the discussion in the first place.
And let me be clear...I've gotten my information and strategical approach from a professional trainer, who personally worked me through my cut. He's a CSCS, LDN, and an RD to boot (registered dietician). An RD is not anything like a mere nutritionist. The blokes at Vitamine Shoppe call themselves "nutritionists". This trainer has numerous powerlifting titles under his belt, and has trained/does train professional bodybuilders and athletes. It's because of his tutilige that I'm no slouch in the strength department, either, by the way.
His stance? Refeeds are prohibitive in the manner you suggest...or Lyle, or U2D, or whatever it's called. Period. In his opinion, these things are just the "flavor of the month." Wait and see how much you're talking about refeeds in the next few years.
Now, you can point me to all the studies in the world saying the opposite, and you're right...it's doubtful that I will read them. My trainer tells me it's a bad idea, and that's the end of the discussion. And I know his opinion is nonbiassed becase he's not trying to sell me anything. My success is the bottom line, and he has the education, experience & knowlege to back up what he says.
Going from 15 to 10%? Fine, use refeeds, which are more a function of poor will power than absolute necessity. But refeed with carbs during the "final push" to 6-pack land, or, "stage ready"? Bad idea.
And lest you think otherwise, Tot, this is not a personal attack. All I'm saying to you is, I'm willing to bet you all the tea in China that you will never get to the level of leanness you want by using this approach. But here again, when you're done with your diet, post a pic showing the abs, and I'll tip my cap to you.
Sci wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well Slapshotz, there are guys who got more lean than you using UD2 with pics to prove it at bodyrecomposition.com forum. I haven't read the book, but alot of people use it to get super-lean, I am talking fitness or bodybuilding stage lean. I have never been close to that lean, which is one reason why I didn't read it yet, a simple caloric deficit works to get to 10% or so as you said earlier.</div>
I gotta laugh....sci, of course there are people leaner than me....just about everywhere there will always be people leaner than you, bigger than you, stronger than you, etc., but let me be clear: the only reason I didn't go down to the 3-4% range was the mental toll it was taking, and it would be hard for me to function in my everday life if I took that route. I believe I stated quite clearly that I took the diet as far as my will power was willing to go....which truly ends up being the case for most people, they just won't admit it.
So, go ahead and post all the pics you want of those who got ripped using refeeds....my point is, those people are not you, nor are they tot...and if you both end up getting shredded using that formula? I'll eat humble pie, and gladly apologize, and be genuinely happy for your success.
Now, it's time for lunch...20 grams of net carbs, don't you know
scientific muscle
New Member
Slapz, it's evident that you respect your trainer highly and not without reason; his advice has helped you attain your dieting and training goals up to this point. A personal trainer obviously has the benefit of seeing you regularly and being able to adjust his plan for you according to how things are working out, which is just what you want.
Maybe it's just me, but if I had a personal trainer I would want to know that he was keeping abreast of current research and making an informed choice on the dieting plan he was prescribing for me. It would be great to know what your guy has to say about Lyle's work (and of other well respected nutritionists, like Alan Aragorn) and whether he is familiar with the ideas in Lyle's U.D. 2.0? My guess is he would need to be, so I'd be interested to hear why he thinks that it's not valid or that useful in your particular case? He must have his reasons.
Maybe it's just me, but if I had a personal trainer I would want to know that he was keeping abreast of current research and making an informed choice on the dieting plan he was prescribing for me. It would be great to know what your guy has to say about Lyle's work (and of other well respected nutritionists, like Alan Aragorn) and whether he is familiar with the ideas in Lyle's U.D. 2.0? My guess is he would need to be, so I'd be interested to hear why he thinks that it's not valid or that useful in your particular case? He must have his reasons.
Sometimes I just have to tell myself: "Shuddup and Lift!"
I wish I had a personal trainer I could believe in: that's a gold mine, especially when he tweaks your program to fit YOU, and I think that's the key to success. I've been skeptical myself after reading so many different strategies, (including much of lyle's philosophy) and it's guys like Lyle (even if he IS a butthead) who back their stuff up with studies that I listen to, even if I may not apply it. Lol has a valid point, but you can't argue with results either. I'm one to be trained by a guy I want to look like, not a guy who hasn't been there. To some that sounds ignorant, but you can't argue WITH RESULTS!
I wish I had a personal trainer I could believe in: that's a gold mine, especially when he tweaks your program to fit YOU, and I think that's the key to success. I've been skeptical myself after reading so many different strategies, (including much of lyle's philosophy) and it's guys like Lyle (even if he IS a butthead) who back their stuff up with studies that I listen to, even if I may not apply it. Lol has a valid point, but you can't argue with results either. I'm one to be trained by a guy I want to look like, not a guy who hasn't been there. To some that sounds ignorant, but you can't argue WITH RESULTS!
I'd rather be trained by a guy who's produced people who look like I want to look. Lyle IS a trainer, after all, and look at the guys who have gotten to some amazing states of conditioning following his instructions. So we're back to two trainers who say conflicting things, and only one so far has posted evidence. In fact, you can find evidence of Lyle's advice right on this very site. Look up Mikeynov, he got to a state much leaner and yet bigger than slapshotz pictures, using UD2.0, which should be impossible according to slapz trainer. He posted several pics, which if they aren't on here anymore (they may have been lost in the upgrade) then they are definitely on Lyle's site still. Blade has _stepped on stage_ after following UD2.0, and you know he was definitely a LOT leaner if he was on stage. Oh, and he was like 220 lbs or something at the time too, so... oh well. You can find tons of pictures of him everywhere if you just look.
I guess there isn't much point in talking about it, since we're all just parroting what we've been told. Well, I have actually looked at some of the studies and such, but I'm still basically just repeating what Lyle said.
Anyway, I won't come back into this log with anything about any of this again until I have pictures of myself below 8% in order to back up what I'm saying, which will probably be a while since I don't see any point in going below 8% unless you are a competitor. I mean, I could probably cut down to that level within a couple of months or so, I don't have a lot of fat over my abs at this point, but who cares? I also don't feel like having to shave off the fur to be able to see any of the tone, so... but that would be saying that I have something to prove, which I do not believe I do. What I have said is backed up by science and real world evidence of the dozens upon dozens of people who have benefited from following it. So far, all we have to back up the counterargument are a couple pictures of a guy with a blurry six pack.
Besides, it is pretty sad when someone's argument is so weak that they have to attack the person instead of addressing the actual argument itself.
And so by extension, following the same logic, no one should take any strength training advice from slapshotz since all he's done is reported his lifts and hasn't ever posted a video to prove it. I mean, at least the some of the HST experts like Lol and myself have posted videos of our lifts.
Hmm, that line of reasoning makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
I guess there isn't much point in talking about it, since we're all just parroting what we've been told. Well, I have actually looked at some of the studies and such, but I'm still basically just repeating what Lyle said.
Anyway, I won't come back into this log with anything about any of this again until I have pictures of myself below 8% in order to back up what I'm saying, which will probably be a while since I don't see any point in going below 8% unless you are a competitor. I mean, I could probably cut down to that level within a couple of months or so, I don't have a lot of fat over my abs at this point, but who cares? I also don't feel like having to shave off the fur to be able to see any of the tone, so... but that would be saying that I have something to prove, which I do not believe I do. What I have said is backed up by science and real world evidence of the dozens upon dozens of people who have benefited from following it. So far, all we have to back up the counterargument are a couple pictures of a guy with a blurry six pack.
Besides, it is pretty sad when someone's argument is so weak that they have to attack the person instead of addressing the actual argument itself.
And so by extension, following the same logic, no one should take any strength training advice from slapshotz since all he's done is reported his lifts and hasn't ever posted a video to prove it. I mean, at least the some of the HST experts like Lol and myself have posted videos of our lifts.
Hmm, that line of reasoning makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
MaxStim - Workout 10
Weighted Chins: BW+75 - 20 (Previous BW+70 - 20)
Back Extensions
Dumbbell curls w/45s for 15
Abs
20 Mins. Cardio
Notes: I've been sleeping like $hit for the past month, so it's a wonder I'm making any progress at all lately, but aside from having a Nyquil hangover, I did okay. Every night, same thing...goto bed at @11:30, wake up at 3:30, can't fall back asleep. I think most if it is still because my body is fighting whatever sinus thing is going on, but man, it's getting tiresome.
After my workout, I had a full body massage that my wife got me for my birthday. Heaven, pure heaven. I've signed up to get them once a month. The chick who did it was smoking hot, so that helped
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As far as the other hoo-dilly going on in my journal, I don't have much to say, except to LOL, who brought up the only real decent question, and that was why my trainer feels the way he does about the refeeding. I don't see him for my next analysis for another month, and he's uber busy, so I won't have an answer for awhile.
I think his answer will be along the lines of carbs smoothing you out and making you retain water, which is exactly what you don't need when you're pushing from 4-to 6-pack land. He did tell me precisely why to avoid/lower carbs once upon a time, but I don't remember his exact reasoning. I just did what he said.
Tunnel, love the Stay-Puft pic. Great timing!
And tot, you can take all the digs you want at me. Your pics are all "Close encounters of the blurred kind", if I'm being honest, all cleaverly hiding the very area you claim to have success with with your "refeeds", so you can take that for whatever it's worth. At least your traps are ripped. I guess we can agree that I'm a skinny ba$tard who lies about how much he lifts, and you're just some fat guy claiming to be ripped.
Weighted Chins: BW+75 - 20 (Previous BW+70 - 20)
Back Extensions
Dumbbell curls w/45s for 15
Abs
20 Mins. Cardio
Notes: I've been sleeping like $hit for the past month, so it's a wonder I'm making any progress at all lately, but aside from having a Nyquil hangover, I did okay. Every night, same thing...goto bed at @11:30, wake up at 3:30, can't fall back asleep. I think most if it is still because my body is fighting whatever sinus thing is going on, but man, it's getting tiresome.
After my workout, I had a full body massage that my wife got me for my birthday. Heaven, pure heaven. I've signed up to get them once a month. The chick who did it was smoking hot, so that helped
********************************************************
As far as the other hoo-dilly going on in my journal, I don't have much to say, except to LOL, who brought up the only real decent question, and that was why my trainer feels the way he does about the refeeding. I don't see him for my next analysis for another month, and he's uber busy, so I won't have an answer for awhile.
I think his answer will be along the lines of carbs smoothing you out and making you retain water, which is exactly what you don't need when you're pushing from 4-to 6-pack land. He did tell me precisely why to avoid/lower carbs once upon a time, but I don't remember his exact reasoning. I just did what he said.
Tunnel, love the Stay-Puft pic. Great timing!
And tot, you can take all the digs you want at me. Your pics are all "Close encounters of the blurred kind", if I'm being honest, all cleaverly hiding the very area you claim to have success with with your "refeeds", so you can take that for whatever it's worth. At least your traps are ripped. I guess we can agree that I'm a skinny ba$tard who lies about how much he lifts, and you're just some fat guy claiming to be ripped.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">And tot, you can take all the digs you want at me. Your pics are all "Close encounters of the blurred kind", if I'm being honest, all cleaverly hiding the very area you claim to have success with with your "refeeds", so you can take that for whatever it's worth. At least your traps are ripped. I guess we can agree that I'm a skinny ba$tard who lies about how much he lifts, and you're just some fat guy claiming to be ripped. </div>
Can I be a referee here? The conversation amongst you is now at the point of absurdity. Both of you bring great points to the table, and for the most part neither of you are wrong. Tot, not everyone has the ability to post videos of their lifts. If someone wants to lie about their workout, then they can go ahead, but what is the enjoyment of that? My understanding of Slapz is that he is truthful in his posts, but I am sure Quad can vouch for his character much better than I could.
Additionally, as I go down my own path to 10% body fat, I am testing the waters of different workout and nutrition schemes. There is no one way to get to 10% (or less) for any one person. Likewise, what may work for me may not work another person due to differences in genetics (metabolism, p-ratio, frame and stature).
What Slapz trainer tells him works for him, but it may not work for other people (or it will). One basis that does work for everyone is simple thermodynamics. If you want to lose weight, specifically fat, you will need to diet and exercise. If you would like to gain muscle, you will need to eat correctly and lift weights.
Play nice!
Can I be a referee here? The conversation amongst you is now at the point of absurdity. Both of you bring great points to the table, and for the most part neither of you are wrong. Tot, not everyone has the ability to post videos of their lifts. If someone wants to lie about their workout, then they can go ahead, but what is the enjoyment of that? My understanding of Slapz is that he is truthful in his posts, but I am sure Quad can vouch for his character much better than I could.
Additionally, as I go down my own path to 10% body fat, I am testing the waters of different workout and nutrition schemes. There is no one way to get to 10% (or less) for any one person. Likewise, what may work for me may not work another person due to differences in genetics (metabolism, p-ratio, frame and stature).
What Slapz trainer tells him works for him, but it may not work for other people (or it will). One basis that does work for everyone is simple thermodynamics. If you want to lose weight, specifically fat, you will need to diet and exercise. If you would like to gain muscle, you will need to eat correctly and lift weights.
Play nice!
I think both Totz' and Slapz' comments were meant at least a little tongue in cheek? I don't think there's any love lost here, just a few valid points that can't really be proven on a personal level without more evidence to back them up. That's what makes this all so interesting. There is so much yet to be learned, fellow grasshoppers.
Good posts, Lol and Colby...I try and remember that we're all on the same team...and I will take a stand and speak for Slapshot in the respect that I've known him a long time and have never known him to be less than humble with lift reports - and the knowledge that many of us have open doors and can be checked out at any time - how many of you have I invited to come work out with me? And Tot, having been somewhat caustic in a prior life, hasn't really crushed any toes stepped on; just put it out there when he thought it was warranted, and I respect a man's right to speak his mind. Especially when you're usually right.
The thing to be mindful of is the deceptiveness of the pen - our writings often come off stronger than what we are thinking at the time.
If you don't believe me, just get involved with a gal over the net...talk about things going haywire!
The thing to be mindful of is the deceptiveness of the pen - our writings often come off stronger than what we are thinking at the time.
If you don't believe me, just get involved with a gal over the net...talk about things going haywire!
<div>
(Lol @ Jan. 07 2008,17:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I think both Totz' and Slapz' comments were meant at least a little tongue in cheek? I don't think there's any love lost here, just a few valid points that can't really be proven on a personal level without more evidence to back them up. That's what makes this all so interesting. There is so much yet to be learned, fellow grasshoppers.
</div>
Exactly. I still have plenty of respect for slapshotz even if I disagree about this point. I admire his strength especially considering that he is lighter and leaner than other people lifting similar or lighter weights. Remember, strength is all relative to bodyweight. It is more difficult to be stronger the lighter you are, so someone possessing that sort of strength in a lighter body is all the more impressive.
Further, I don't really care if someone argues with me about something. I'm not going to carry a grudge. What is the point? I think I've probably argued with more than a few of you, and it doesn't matter. I mean seriously, I have stronger arguments with some of my real life friends, especially when it comes to more touchy subjects like religion, etc, and it hasn't ever resulted in any love lost. Agree to disagree, right? We are all adults here, after all. Well, as far as I know anyway.
And to be clear - I was not disbelieving his lifts. I'm simply providing an analogy with his comments about my lack of pictures. I know not everyone has the ability nor the inclination to post videos of their lifts - just as some people may not have any cameras other than their cell phones - or maybe the people without pictures just hate the way they look and don't want to post much because they think they look like crap?
I couldn't really care any less if someone is lying about their lifts or if they aren't providing proof, just as I couldn't care any less what anyone on here looks like compared to what they claim to look like. I base my opinion of people on their intelligence and how they present themselves in their actual posts. Remember, this is the internet and you have to take everything someone says on faith. I could easily post the picture of Sporto above in my log and pretend it is me. I can find dozens of videos of deadlifts online to use as my own, so that totally invalidated all of this. I could even photoshop a sign into a picture of someone else with my name on it, pretending that is proof that it really is me.
My point? I think I made it already. Who cares?
Anyway... like I said in my last post, I'm done with the argument about refeeds and I'm still not going to say anything more about it in this log.
(Lol @ Jan. 07 2008,17:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I think both Totz' and Slapz' comments were meant at least a little tongue in cheek? I don't think there's any love lost here, just a few valid points that can't really be proven on a personal level without more evidence to back them up. That's what makes this all so interesting. There is so much yet to be learned, fellow grasshoppers.
Exactly. I still have plenty of respect for slapshotz even if I disagree about this point. I admire his strength especially considering that he is lighter and leaner than other people lifting similar or lighter weights. Remember, strength is all relative to bodyweight. It is more difficult to be stronger the lighter you are, so someone possessing that sort of strength in a lighter body is all the more impressive.
Further, I don't really care if someone argues with me about something. I'm not going to carry a grudge. What is the point? I think I've probably argued with more than a few of you, and it doesn't matter. I mean seriously, I have stronger arguments with some of my real life friends, especially when it comes to more touchy subjects like religion, etc, and it hasn't ever resulted in any love lost. Agree to disagree, right? We are all adults here, after all. Well, as far as I know anyway.
And to be clear - I was not disbelieving his lifts. I'm simply providing an analogy with his comments about my lack of pictures. I know not everyone has the ability nor the inclination to post videos of their lifts - just as some people may not have any cameras other than their cell phones - or maybe the people without pictures just hate the way they look and don't want to post much because they think they look like crap?
I couldn't really care any less if someone is lying about their lifts or if they aren't providing proof, just as I couldn't care any less what anyone on here looks like compared to what they claim to look like. I base my opinion of people on their intelligence and how they present themselves in their actual posts. Remember, this is the internet and you have to take everything someone says on faith. I could easily post the picture of Sporto above in my log and pretend it is me. I can find dozens of videos of deadlifts online to use as my own, so that totally invalidated all of this. I could even photoshop a sign into a picture of someone else with my name on it, pretending that is proof that it really is me.
My point? I think I made it already. Who cares?
Anyway... like I said in my last post, I'm done with the argument about refeeds and I'm still not going to say anything more about it in this log.
Yeah, I consider this stuff good debate, but nothing to lose sleep over...like tot, my disagreements with friends, colleagues, wife, etc., get WAY more intense than this at times.
But I will always have an itchy trigger finger to challenge those who vehemently defend methods that they have not truly had success with on a personal level.
But I will always have an itchy trigger finger to challenge those who vehemently defend methods that they have not truly had success with on a personal level.
<div>
(Slapshotz @ Jan. 08 2008,20:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But I will always have an itchy trigger finger to challenge those who vehemently defend methods that they have not truly had success with on a personal level.</div>
Yep, so remember kids... when I tell you not to play around downed power lines, you cannot listen to me since you've never seen me get electrocuted. And if I say, "Hey, don't commit murder, you'll go to prison," you can say "How do you know, you've never killed someone and went to prison, so you don't know what you are talking about."
(Slapshotz @ Jan. 08 2008,20:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But I will always have an itchy trigger finger to challenge those who vehemently defend methods that they have not truly had success with on a personal level.</div>
Yep, so remember kids... when I tell you not to play around downed power lines, you cannot listen to me since you've never seen me get electrocuted. And if I say, "Hey, don't commit murder, you'll go to prison," you can say "How do you know, you've never killed someone and went to prison, so you don't know what you are talking about."
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(Totentanz @ Jan. 09 2008,08:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Slapshotz @ Jan. 08 2008,20:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But I will always have an itchy trigger finger to challenge those who vehemently defend methods that they have not truly had success with on a personal level.</div>
Yep, so remember kids... when I tell you not to play around downed power lines, you cannot listen to me since you've never seen me get electrocuted. And if I say, "Hey, don't commit murder, you'll go to prison," you can say "How do you know, you've never killed someone and went to prison, so you don't know what you are talking about."
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um, I think bb'g is different from, oh, say, murder....but maybe I'm bass ackwards on the subject.
(Totentanz @ Jan. 09 2008,08:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Slapshotz @ Jan. 08 2008,20:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But I will always have an itchy trigger finger to challenge those who vehemently defend methods that they have not truly had success with on a personal level.</div>
Yep, so remember kids... when I tell you not to play around downed power lines, you cannot listen to me since you've never seen me get electrocuted. And if I say, "Hey, don't commit murder, you'll go to prison," you can say "How do you know, you've never killed someone and went to prison, so you don't know what you are talking about."
um, I think bb'g is different from, oh, say, murder....but maybe I'm bass ackwards on the subject.
MaxStim - Workout 12
Barbbell Shoulder Press: 150 - 15 (Previous 145 - 20)
Barbbell Shrugs: 405 - 12, 2 sets
Lateral raises
20 Mins. Cardio
Notes: Now, I suppose, the real fun begins. I hit my first sticking point, where I couldn't do 20 reps. My 15th rep, I had to cheat to get it up (If I didn't, the weight would have crashed down on my lap....the perils of not having a spotter). So, I dropped the weight to 145 to finish my last 5 reps.
In some cases, even adding 5 pounds will be too much, so I'm going to try to get magnetic 1-pound weights to put on the bar. So, for example, next time I'll try to get 150 for the full 20. If I do, next time I do shoulder press, I'll tack on one pound, and work up that way.
This will most likely be the best, most regimented load increase regimen that I will have ever undertaken, assuming I can get the magnetic weights to tack onto the plates.
Shrugs were kicka$$, at least
Barbbell Shoulder Press: 150 - 15 (Previous 145 - 20)
Barbbell Shrugs: 405 - 12, 2 sets
Lateral raises
20 Mins. Cardio
Notes: Now, I suppose, the real fun begins. I hit my first sticking point, where I couldn't do 20 reps. My 15th rep, I had to cheat to get it up (If I didn't, the weight would have crashed down on my lap....the perils of not having a spotter). So, I dropped the weight to 145 to finish my last 5 reps.
In some cases, even adding 5 pounds will be too much, so I'm going to try to get magnetic 1-pound weights to put on the bar. So, for example, next time I'll try to get 150 for the full 20. If I do, next time I do shoulder press, I'll tack on one pound, and work up that way.
This will most likely be the best, most regimented load increase regimen that I will have ever undertaken, assuming I can get the magnetic weights to tack onto the plates.
Shrugs were kicka$$, at least
scientific muscle
New Member
Nice Max-stim workouts. I use magnetic platemates (for dumbells mostly)...they are very useful in my training and I recommend 'micro-plates' to anyone who lifts free-weights.