Lifting goals

Discussion in 'General Training' started by scientific muscle, Oct 11, 2006.

  1. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    Even though you didn't make all your goals that is still some great work Steve. Most people wouldn't have the balls to try to do all that in the same day. So you should be proud of the fact that you even tried it because that is still a great accomplishment.

    And now you know you need to specialize to hit some of those goals. And that's ok too.

    Great job and good luck reaching all your goals in the future.
     
  2. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    Stevejones you crybaby....you are the strongest guy I know. (well I haven't met you in person). I am amazed that you deadlifted over 700 lb.s at under 8% bodyfat, that is incredible. Your bench press is out of this world too (for natural). You are one of the guys who keeps my ass motivated to hit the gym and keep pushing my lifts.

    Congratulations on meeting some of your lofty goals!
     
  3. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    I'm just trying different things to keep myself motivated. Gains come so slowly these days and require such extreme methods that it's easy to get frustrated. I've been significantly stronger in all my lifts in the past than I am now (except the bench press --rotator cuff always limited me), and I've also been a better runner. So, now I guess I feel I"m mediocre in both areas. That's what I like so much about strongmen--they are both fit and strong. They have to be for the events. I loved watching the WSM 2006 and seeing Mariusz and Phil going head to head.
     
  4. Joe.Muscle

    Joe.Muscle Active Member

    <div>
    (stevejones @ Dec. 25 2006,02:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (quadancer @ Dec. 22 2006,19:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Okay Steve, IT'S YOUR DAY! How close did you come?

    Overall, I'm just trying to acheive as much strength and size as I can at my age, and am willing to work butt-hard for it. I just have a problem with regimentation and get frustrated with goals, so I'd rather just lift happy, smart, and enjoy it.</div>
    ........................crap

    Goals for 22 Dec:
    Bodyfat: &lt;8%  Check
    Deadlift: 725   FAILED
    Bench: 440 Double Check
    Squat 405x20 ====FAILED
    Pullup BW + 200 lbs ====FAILED
    Run 2 miles in less than 12 minutes===FAILED

    I was pretty pissed...but, failure is a part of life.  I got 17 reps on the squat.  
    Squat:
    I tied a small chaulk line near the bottom of the squat rack and had a guy watch me do the reps.  My ass had to touch that line on every rep to be sure I was going ATG.  I'm telling you, when you're in serious pain your body will do everything in it's power to cheat and convince you otherwise, so you have to do stuff like that to keep yourself in check.  I got 18 reps but the 18th one didn't count because I didn't touch the line.  On the 19th rep I touched but couldn't even get up.  

    Pullups:
    Hung low for a few seconds until I was completely extended and still, then pulled...only got 75% of the way.  

    2 mile run:
    12:08 was my time...wanted to blame melted snow on the track and cold weather..but...I warmed up plenty and the track I ran on meets olympic standards...excellent weatherproof track made out of excellent material..so, the truth is that I just wasn't good enough

    BF %:  The weather here in Colorado has been so terrible that the clinic where I wanted to get my bf measured has been closed, but I'm positive I'm under 8 percent.  Calipers read 3%, and they are always WAY off but not by more than 5%.  I think I got down to 5% for a very brief period there, and started feeling a little sick.  On the 22nd I bet I was 6 or 7%.  Wish the clinic didn't close, but anyway, I'm content with all that.

    Bench Press:  455 solid pounds, rotator cuff feels great
    Deadlift:  Failed @725...got pissed and gave up, returned at end of the day with an ammonia tab and more food in me...pulled 705, BARELY...but, good lift...very messy though, chaulk all over thighs, hands, and face (don't ask)

    So, 2 passes and 4 failures...but still ticking and still goal setting

    I swear man..it's just impossible to be a runner and strength &quot;athlete&quot; simultaneously.  I really think thats the best I'll ever be able to do in my lifetime.  I know that I have the potential to deadlift 800 lbs, and also know that I can run 2 miles in under 12 minutes...but I will never have a body that can do both of those things.  Maybe I could with steroids, or maybe not...I'll never know, that's for sure.   You just have to be a fat ass to deadlift serious weight, lol.  Ok, well maybe not a fat ass, but you MUST be over 10%.   The same applies to squats.  

    Any kind of endurance exercise on the legs...running, bicycling, swimming, whatever...just eats away all that excess muscle.  Show me some triathlete who can do stuff like that and then go out and squat 700 lbs or ATG squat 405x20...yeah, right.  Endurance and extreme size/strength just don't mix.  Anyway, enough whining....

    I'm glad I pushed it and tested myself.  Was very grueling to do all that on the same day, kind of sucked actually.  I'm enjoying the holidays now and have upped the calories (but not by much yet).</div>
    One Word!

    HOLY **** !!!!!

    I understand goal setting, and by your goals technically you did fail some of them.

    But do you realize you are in better shape than prob 99% of the people on this planet.

    I personally and very impressed with those numbers they are know were short of completly awesome!

    MY hats is off to you ....you get mad respect and props from me! [​IMG]

    Now get your ass in the weight room and hit the rest of them goals! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  5. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (stevejones @ Dec. 26 2006,07:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm just trying different things to keep myself motivated.  Gains come so slowly these days and require such extreme methods that it's easy to get frustrated.  I've been significantly stronger in all my lifts in the past than I am now (except the bench press --rotator cuff always limited me), and I've also been a better runner.  So, now I guess I feel I&quot;m mediocre in both areas.  That's what I like so much about strongmen--they are both fit and strong.  They have to be for the events.   I loved watching the WSM 2006 and seeing Mariusz and Phil going head to head.</div>
    Steve:

    1) You ain't getting any younger (not sure how old you are now?) so if you pretty much reached your 'genetic potential' some years back then just staying at or around that level will be a tough call.

    2) Most of the strongmen are cheating the effects of aging by taking test and other stuff. I have seen a vid of Mariusz showing the array of gear he's taking (lots of vials!).

    3) Mediocre for you is probably superior to what most trainees can ever expect to achieve naturally and whilst I understand that you don't feel that you are at your best right now all the lifts you mentioned are still a great achievement.

    4) Have you read 'Starting Strength' (I reckon this is still a good read even for long time trainers) and 'Practical Programming for Strength Training' by Kilgore &amp; Rippetoe? If not they are definitely worth a read and are very motivating.

    5) Now you are at a low bf %age, can you do a one arm pullup... with each arm? [​IMG] Please don't say 'Yes!' [​IMG]

    Here's a quote from Starting Strength that you might appreciate:

    &quot;... A heavy set of 20 reps is one of the most demanding in sports conditioning. ... A 20RM squat is done with about 80% of a 1RM, and even the last rep is not really heavy, in terms of the amount of force required to squat it. The hard part of a set of 20 is that the last 5 reps are done in a state that approaches death, or at least a hellish nightmare.&quot;

    Made me laugh anyway! [​IMG]
     
  6. vagrant

    vagrant New Member

    <div>
    (Lol @ Dec. 26 2006,12:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">&quot;... A heavy set of 20 reps is one of the most demanding in sports conditioning. ... A 20RM squat is done with about 80% of a 1RM, and even the last rep is not really heavy, in terms of the amount of force required to squat it. The hard part of a set of 20 is that the last 5 reps are done in a state that approaches death, or at least a hellish nightmare.&quot;</div>
    Who here besides steve has tried a 20 rep squat workout?

    I did and it was definitely the hardest thing I've ever done. And I was barely using any weight compared to what a real lifter would be putting up. Definitely some intense stuff there.
     
  7. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    I'm 37, so I'm getting up there in years now. I don't know if I can do a one arm pullup, I've never tried it. I can definitely do one of those where you grab your wrist with the other hand, but I doubt I can do one where you just hang with one arm and do it. I think I probably weigh too much. I guess I'm slightly bummed because I just have no desire to pull 800 or bench 500 if I'm over 10 percent. I used to want that no matter how heavy I got, but my attitude has changed.

    Yeah, a real 20 rep atg squat is some pretty horrible stuff. I think I've seen a lot of guys on here mention them though. 80% of 1 rep is about right. It's funny that my parallel squat is over 200 lbs heavier than an ATG squat. An ATG is not just going below parallel, it's deeep-hams to calves. I struggle to do even one without at least 185 on the bar (helps to push you down).
     
  8. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (vagrant @ Dec. 26 2006,18:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (Lol @ Dec. 26 2006,12:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">&quot;... A heavy set of 20 reps is one of the most demanding in sports conditioning. ... A 20RM squat is done with about 80% of a 1RM, and even the last rep is not really heavy, in terms of the amount of force required to squat it. The hard part of a set of 20 is that the last 5 reps are done in a state that approaches death, or at least a hellish nightmare.&quot;</div>
    Who here besides steve has tried a 20 rep squat workout?

    I did and it was definitely the hardest thing I've ever done.  And I was barely using any weight compared to what a real lifter would be putting up.  Definitely some intense stuff there.</div>
    I reckon 20RM squats are the closest thing you can get to pushing yourself over the edge if you have the will power. You do have to be careful though. I went blind for 10 mins after a 20RM deep leg press session.

    Apparently when you get to the point that your brain starts to get starved of oxygen it will selectively shut down your systems in order to survive. The doc at my local eye infirmary explained that sight goes before hearing! Scared the hell out of me and I don't wish to repeat the experience. One way to ensure it doesn't happen after really pushing it to the limit is to lie down rather than sit down afterwards so you keep enough oxygenated blood flowing around your brain.
     
  9. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    The body protects the brain and the heart the longest I believe, from accounts of people almost freezing to death and stuff like that.
    When I did the 20 rep squat experiment I started low, at 220. The reps finally dropped to 17 when I hit 330, 15 workouts later. My 5rm on my machine was 550, so that should give you an idea of where I was. I was doing 2 sets every workout of 20 ATG and barely making any headway. I also didn't grow any from it. Someone else might.
     
  10. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    lol.....you guys are freaks

    &quot;Hey just be careful how hard you push yourself. Going blind for 10 minutes or losing your hearing for a day isn't that bad, but just don't push so hard that your heart stops for good or your brain dies.&quot;  lol

    The worse that has happened to me is vomiting, and I hope I never push myself harder than that.  

    Actually, 20 rep squats haven't helped me to grow all that much either, but anything around 8 reps or lower going ATG really builds up the legs and my giant ass.
     
  11. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    I do 20 rep squats every workout.  Sometimes using my 5 rm!!!  (of course it takes me about 8-9 minutes to complete.)  It is all about fatigue-management guys! [​IMG]  [​IMG]
     
  12. vagrant

    vagrant New Member

    <div>
    (scientific muscle @ Dec. 26 2006,21:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I do 20 rep squats every workout.  Sometimes using my 5 rm!!!  (of course it takes me about 8-9 minutes to complete.)  It is all about fatigue-management guys! [​IMG]  [​IMG]</div>
    haha.

    Put it that way, I'm doing 25 every workout. In short sets of 5 each...

    I thought they all meant 20 squats at once...that'll make you puke for sure.
     
  13. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    The classic 20 rep squats are usually done rest-pause, right? You do a rep, keep the weight on your traps, take several deep breaths, do another rep? That's how it's done in the videos I've seen anyway.
    I don't see any benefit of doing it that way versus doing 20 reps Max-stim style with the same weight. You are accomplishing the same amount of work either way.
     
  14. style

    style New Member

    ''don't see any benefit of doing it that way versus doing 20 reps Max-stim style with the same weight. You are accomplishing the same amount of work either way''

    No strength or size benefit anyway.
     
  15. style

    style New Member

    As for all this talk of blacking out and vomiting, I used to push myself very hard, but I'm getting much better results training smart [​IMG] .

    lol you are insane.
     
  16. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    There might be debate over how you should do 20 rep squats to achieve the maximum benefit, but I won't get into that because as far as I'm concerned it will always be moot and there is no clear cut answer for what works best for each individual. However, I do mine with 1 second pause at bottom and no rest between reps. It's a very painful thing to do, but it's the way I've always done them.

    The only way I would be accomplishing the same amount of work doing them the max stim way is if I added maybe 100 lbs to the bar. I say 'work' because I know it's much harder to do them the way I explained. Maybe I should use the term 'effort' instead.
     
  17. Lifting N Tx

    Lifting N Tx New Member

    <div>
    (Lol @ Dec. 26 2006,11:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Here's a quote from Starting Strength that you might appreciate:

    &quot;... A heavy set of 20 reps is one of the most demanding in sports conditioning. ... A 20RM squat is done with about 80% of a 1RM, and even the last rep is not really heavy, in terms of the amount of force required to squat it. The hard part of a set of 20 is that the last 5 reps are done in a state that approaches death, or at least a hellish nightmare.&quot;

    Made me laugh anyway! [​IMG]
    </div>
    <div>
    (Lol @ Dec. 26 2006,14:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
    I reckon 20RM squats are the closest thing you can get to pushing yourself over the edge if you have the will power. You do have to be careful though. I went blind for 10 mins after a 20RM deep leg press session.</div>
    Glad you can still laugh. After the &quot;blind for 10 minutes&quot; episode I think reading something like that would give me flashbacks!
     
  18. Lifting N Tx

    Lifting N Tx New Member

    <div>
    (Lol @ Dec. 26 2006,11:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">2) Most of the strongmen are cheating the effects of aging by taking test and other stuff. I have seen a vid of Mariusz showing the array of gear he's taking (lots of vials!).
    </div>
    Seems like I read that Phil is supposedly drug free. Of course we've all been lied to by athletes before, the that's what I read somewhere.

    I've also read the Shane Hamman has come out against performance enhancing drug use. Glenn Pendlay stated in very strong terms on another forum that he knows that Shane didn't use drugs. Of course a (US record) 524lb clean and jerk, while out of this world, is still 10%+ away from the world's best ever.

    He didn't exactly do it at Steve's 8% body fat target, though. I read that his waist was 47&quot;...and chest 64&quot;. Something like 330lbs at 5'9&quot;, but could do a back flip and dunk a basketball. I'd have bet on Steve to take Shane in the 2 mile run, though. [​IMG]

    Steve might still have a bit of progress left. Easy for me to say; I'd be thrilled to just get close to where he is now. I note that Practical Programming indicates that the more elite you are, the longer the training cycle and more complicated the programming to actually make progress.
     
  19. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    If I ever went blind for 10 minutes I would completely change everything I was doing and take it easy in the gym, just trying to maintain or lose a little bit of muscle and then maintain. That is some scary stuff. You were completely blind ?
     
  20. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    I did all my 20 rep sets with continuous motion, ATG, no pauses anywhere, except for getting a few extra breaths here and there near the end of some of the sets. I didn't go blind, pass out, crap my britches or go to hell.

    But MAN, did I feel like PUKING a few times! [​IMG]

    I lost my vision a couple times back when I was jogging up a mountain tho. Just for a moment.
     

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