Simplify and Win!

Hey all,

I've been a long time 'lurker' of these forums and have been convinced to give HST a bash after getting insignificant results with split routines over the past two years. In fact, I started off lifting with 3 full body routines a week and made the best gains of my life a few years back. But, alas, my ego (and the massive guys in the gym) got to me and before I knew it, I was an iso-whore! But I digress ...

I just had a couple of questions regarding this approach;

Firstly, I was just wondering how essential the common variables were in HST, namely that of the reps per set (1x15, 2x10, 3x5). I was thinking about doing something rather like this:
weeks 1 and 2 - 2 x 12
weeks 3 and 4 - 2 x 9
weeks 5 and 6 - 3 x 6
weeks 7 and 8 - 3/4 x 3
weeks 9 and 10 - doubles or clusters.

I just figured that these smaller increments (a drop of 3 reps per 2 week block rather than 5) would perhaps increase hypertrophy a little more over an 8 - 10 week cycle, as opposed to a 6 - 8 week vanilla HST programme? Comments appreciated on this one.

Also, I was just wondering how one would go about adequately calculating how much weight should be lifted towards the end of the cycle when the heavier weights should be used for less reps. After calculating your 5RM at the start of the cycle, surely your 5RM will be slightly higher after the previous several weeks of lifting?

For example, say I found out (prior to starting the cycle) that my 5RM deadlift was 100kg, and this would be my target for my last 5's workout when I came to it. However, I'd have been deadlifting for the past month or so before this point - albeit with higher reps and less weight - but even so, an additional 4 weeks of hypertrophy and strength training might mean that my 5RM was actually closer to the 110kg mark or beyond by this point. As such, by the time I get to my final 5's workout and I'm deadlifting 100kg for sets of 5, I might not be lifting to my full potential. Sure, I'd still be systemtically increasing my poundages during this 2 week block of 5's, but if I had the potential to lift more weight, recruit more muscle fibres, create more microtrauma within the muscle and essentially build more muscle as a result, would it not be best to do so?

Sorry if I've complicated things! Any help would be great :)
 
I think your rep ranges will work equally as well as the standard 15-10-5 ranges. By having the rep ranges closer together, I think you will be more prone to zig-zagging your weights. For example, the difference between your 12 rep max and your 9 rep max is going to be less than the difference between your 15 rep max and your 10 rep max. So you will almost certainly repeat weights from your 12 rep sessions during your 9 rep sessions or you'll zig-zag some. However, your weights will start out heavier and overall be heavier. I think you just made a trade off with the same net result.

Regarding the 5 rep max: What I always do is evaluate where I think I'm at on my 5 rep max day. If I feel like I have gotten stronger and my max is actually higher, I'll add another week of 5s and increase the weight by 5lbs (or whatever) each day. There's no issue adding extra weeks if you can continue to increase the weights. If I think that my 5 rep max day actually maxed me out, I'll move on to triples or negatives or SD.
 
Hi guys, this is my first post.

i want to start HST after years of doing a 3 day split doing sets of 12, 10, 8, 6 to failure and not getting very far, i got stronger just not much bigger...
also i neglected my lower body so i like the idea of doing them 3 times a day. i can bench more than i squat!
anyway i wanted to do an HST routine similar to Steve Jones (post #18). here's my take on exercises and working sets:

Exercise day 15s 10s 5s negs
----------------------------------------------------------
Squats mw 2sets 2sets 3sets 3sets
LegCurl mwf 1set 2sets 2sets 2sets * not sure if i need to do these?
Deads f 2set 2sets 3sets 3sets
LegPress f 1set 2sets 2sets 2sets
CalfRaise mwf 2sets 2sets 3sets 3sets
IncBenchDB mwf 2sets 2sets 3sets 3sets * slight incline
Dips mwf 1set 2sets 2sets 3sets
Chins mwf 2sets 2sets 3sets 3sets
RowsDB mw 1set 2sets 2sets 2sets
Shrugs mwf 1sets 2sets 2sets 2sets
ShldPrsDB mwf 2sets 2sets 3sets 3sets
LatRaise mwf 1sets 2sets 2sets 2sets
RearDelt mwf 1sets 2sets 2sets 2sets
Abs mwf 1sets 2sets 2sets 2sets
------------------------------------------------------------
total sets m 17 24 29 29
total sets w 17 24 29 29
total sets f 17 23 29 29

is it a good balance of exercises?
was going to add some isos as well for bis and tris but not sure if i'm overdoing it as it is.
although i do want bigger arms (doesnt everyone)
i'm not sure if the total sets is ok for each mini cycle. does it look ok?
also not sure about how to do negs on some exercises. any suggestions?
i read one of the other guys does clusters. what are they?
got a million other questions but that will do for now i guess.
i got my RMs last week so going to do SD until next monday then start. can't wait!

any suggestions very welcome!
also just want to say thanks to everyone on this forum. unbelievable amount of info!
 
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OzMullet said:
Hi guys, this is my first post.

i want to start HST after years of doing a 3 day split doing sets of 12, 10, 8, 6 to failure and not getting very far, i got stronger just not much bigger...
also i neglected my lower body so i like the idea of doing them 3 times a day. i can bench more than i squat!
anyway i wanted to do an HST routine similar to Steve Jones (post #18). here's my take on exercises and working sets:

Exercise day 15s 10s 5s negs
----------------------------------------------------------
Squats mw 2sets 2sets 3sets 3sets
LegCurl mwf 1set 2sets 2sets 2sets * not sure if i need to do these?
Deads f 2set 2sets 3sets 3sets
LegPress f 1set 2sets 2sets 2sets
CalfRaise mwf 2sets 2sets 3sets 3sets
IncBenchDB mwf 2sets 2sets 3sets 3sets * slight incline
Dips mwf 1set 2sets 2sets 3sets
Chins mwf 2sets 2sets 3sets 3sets
RowsDB mw 1set 2sets 2sets 2sets
Shrugs mwf 1sets 2sets 2sets 2sets
ShldPrsDB mwf 2sets 2sets 3sets 3sets
LatRaise mwf 1sets 2sets 2sets 2sets
RearDelt mwf 1sets 2sets 2sets 2sets
Abs mwf 1sets 2sets 2sets 2sets
------------------------------------------------------------
total sets m 17 24 29 29
total sets w 17 24 29 29
total sets f 17 23 29 29

is it a good balance of exercises?
was going to add some isos as well for bis and tris but not sure if i'm overdoing it as it is.
although i do want bigger arms (doesnt everyone)
i'm not sure if the total sets is ok for each mini cycle. does it look ok?
also not sure about how to do negs on some exercises. any suggestions?
i read one of the other guys does clusters. what are they?
got a million other questions but that will do for now i guess.
i got my RMs last week so going to do SD until next monday then start. can't wait!

any suggestions very welcome!
also just want to say thanks to everyone on this forum. unbelievable amount of info!
Click to expand...

Welcome Oz

Your set up does not look bad at all, first thing I would do is to split it into two workouts A and B, as such:

Setup A

Squats/LegCurl/Chins/IncBenchDB/RowsDB/LatRaise/Abs

Setup B

Deads/LegPress/CalfRaise/Dips/Shrugs/ShldPrsDB/RearDelt/Abs

Deads might be good to leave as only once per week, shrugs should be taken care of with good deads, I'd drop those, unless you really want a good set of traps or yours are lagging, otherwise drop them, many guys overdo these and get a crappy look with overgrown traps!;)

You should stick to bars unless you can't and keep the dumbells for those isolations you have to do!

Leg curls are ok to have, unless you use stiff leg deads.

Your bi's and tri's will get hit good with a reverse grip chin with added wieght (Biceps) as well as a good weighted dip (Tricep), do the dip as for chest, as the tricep gets hit anyway!:)

Total sets: its best to keep a balanced approach here, try 15, 20 15 or even 15 all the way, obviosuly with the 10's that is normally a bit of a problem, that is why the 20 in the middle!

Going 29 or 30 with second week of 5's and negs is pushing it a bit, you'd be better off sticking to the rules, you might get a lot more success that way!

Negs only work well if you have a partner, else try to push your 5 week a little further or drop rep s to 3 or so and push on...

Clusters, is another way of training to get to a certain target, you have a target of say 30, but only manage 20 well enough, then you start doing 5, 3, 2 till you hit your target reps, make sense, but you rest insted of trying to do the required reps as per the program.

We wil cover more next time you came back with more questions.

Cheers:cool:
 
awesome thanks Fausto, i'll take your advice with splitting into A and B. my traps are pretty good, i just like shrugs. i'll probably drop them though. i'll also do deads/legpress once a week. and squats/legcurl twice. is there any scientific reason why i should do bars instead of DBs? i do both - i like to alternate, i feel when i plateau with one, i use the other. i will def use bars next cycle, maybe i can compare what works better for me. love the Simplify & Win philosophy! will also take your advice regarding 15 sets for 5s. one or two per exercise (i almost forgot that rule!).

i found the other posts regarding clusters. will do some more research and maybe do them after 5s. will see how i go. thanks again Fausto!

btw hows your training going?
 
No Probs Oz

That is what we are here for!

If you like shrugs, incorporate them at tehtop of each rep for deads, how's that?

NO scientific reason, my reasoning is that you can push more weight with the bar, however db's have their place as they force one to use stabiliser muscles, therefore using more muscles, your choice at the end of the day!

Your phylosophy on plateauing and then switching to db's is a good one though I must admit!

Couldn't see it on your post though that is why I mentioned the db's.

Yeah, after a while of hanging around here, one day I decided it would be a good idea to promote what most experts recommend, less is more, provided you get heavy, so simplicity in most things applies including life! Thanks fopr the compliment, most apprecitaed, one must not forget that there is a whole lot of contributions that made this thread great! The HST "gang" really went out of their way to include all their tweaks and improvements in here! Its a great team!

If you want there is one e-book written by Jules ("vicious") who used to post here (wonder what happened to the guy?), if you want you are welcome to PM me , we can exchange e-mails and I will send you what I have got!

Watch it! It might be a mistake, I said 15 reps not sets! I never did like German Volume Training, its just too much....he...he...he! :)
 
ok thanks. i'm still a bit confused as to how many sets of the 5s i should do? 15 reps implies 3 working sets of 5 reps per exercise, which is what i originally posted i.e. i was going to do 3 sets of 5 for some exercises and 2 sets of 5 for others - totalling 29 sets. i think i read on another post that this is what some other guys did. however HST principles state 1 or 2 working sets, and thinking about this further, i can see that 3 sets of the 5s is pushing it, especially on the last day of 5s.

i know it's been talked about in other threads, which i'll go back over, but was just wondering if you could clarify what you mean by "Watch it! It might be a mistake, I said 15 reps not sets!"?

in simpler terms i guess i'm asking - how many working sets per exercise should i be doing for the 5s? 1, 2 or 3?

regarding the e-book, there's still so much info on this forum and the websites for me to digest. any more would be overload! thanks though.
 
OzMullet said:
ok thanks. i'm still a bit confused as to how many sets of the 5s i should do? 15 reps implies 3 working sets of 5 reps per exercise, which is what i originally posted i.e. i was going to do 3 sets of 5 for some exercises and 2 sets of 5 for others - totalling 29 sets. i think i read on another post that this is what some other guys did. however HST principles state 1 or 2 working sets, and thinking about this further, i can see that 3 sets of the 5s is pushing it, especially on the last day of 5s.

i know it's been talked about in other threads, which i'll go back over, but was just wondering if you could clarify what you mean by "Watch it! It might be a mistake, I said 15 reps not sets!"?

in simpler terms i guess i'm asking - how many working sets per exercise should i be doing for the 5s? 1, 2 or 3?

regarding the e-book, there's still so much info on this forum and the websites for me to digest. any more would be overload! thanks though.
Click to expand...

Oz

Try to go for three sets, otherwise do this, first two weeks, 3 sets, then two sets for one week and one set for the last week, your weights should start at 70 - 75% of your 5 RM so that you don't get too heavy too quick.:D

Don't worry about the watch it. It is obvisously a typo and no one I know will do 15 sets of 5, maybe superman, hey?;)

These e-books will become available on site so that you can just down load them.

Cheers
 
OzMullet said:
however HST principles state 1 or 2 working sets, and thinking about this further, i can see that 3 sets of the 5s is pushing it, especially on the last day of 5s.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, HST principles do not state that you must use only 1 or 2 working sets. Quoting the article:

Low volume per exercise (average volume per week)
HST suggests that you limit the number of sets per exercise per workout to 1 or 2. This is based on "some" evidence that sets beyond the first "effective" set do little more than burn calories. There is nothing wrong with burning calories, but when you get to be my age you just don't have the exercise tolerance that you once did. Using hormone replacement (HRT) therapy would of course, increase the number of sets you could do without undue stress.

Some may question the validity of HST not utilizing more than 1 or 2 sets per exercise. The number of sets is set low to accommodate the frequency necessary to create an effective and consistent environment to stimulate hypertrophy. Over the course of a week, the volume isn't that different from standard splits (e.g. chest should tri, back bi, legs).
Click to expand...

1 or 2 sets is the suggestion but it isn't a ironclad principle that you must abide by. Keep in mind that it will also vary depending on how many exercises you are doing, your own work tolerance, age and other factors. Basically, how many sets to use is something you will have to determine over a course of time. Once you are further along in your training age, it will be a lot easier to figure these things out based on past progression (you are keeping log books, right?) and how you are reacting to the workouts. Also, please reference this topic in the FAQS:
How many sets and how to determine it
Quoting from that topic:

Increase volume if:

You are never sore
You are never tired
You are not growing

Maintain volume if:

You are slightly sore most of the time
You are tired enough to sleep well, but not so tired you lose motivation to train.
You are noticeably “fuller”

Decrease volume if:

You are experiencing over use pain, and strain symptoms in joints and/or muscles.
You are tired and irritable all the time, yet don’t sleep well.
Strength levels are significantly decreasing.
Click to expand...

Looking over your routine and the massive amount of exercises you are doing, I would definitely start at one or two working sets (not counting warmups) and go from there. Three sets and above are usually utilized more by people who are doing abbreviated routines ("simplify and win") and so need to up the volume a bit.
 
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yep got it guys thanks. it's much clearer now. i'm going to take Fausto's advice and drop a bunch of exercises - shrugs, arm isos, and split it like this:

A Squats/LegCurl/Chins/IncBenchDB/RowsDB/LatRaise/Abs
B Deads/LegPress/CalfRaise/Dips/ShldPrsDB/RearDelt/Abs

i'm even thinking of removing the latraise & rear delts. will see how i go.

i never used to keep a log because my old routine was pretty simple, but i am def going to now. i'll start one on here as well.

thanks again guys, i know this subject has been discussed alot on this forum and i'm doing my best to read through it all, but sometimes it's easiest to ask and hope someone answers! appreciate you both taking the time to help out.
 
As for keeping a log, here is what I suggest. Get a spiral bound notebook and write down your routine for each day in there. Bring that with you, so you know what to do each day but also so that you can take notes each day when you feel the need to (such as how easy/hard a lift was, how it felt, how long you rested between sets, logging your warmup sets, etc,) then transcribe that into a text file on your computer or online later on after the workout. You will find later on down the line (perhaps even months later) that those observations will prove very valuable for future planning.
 
Hi Oz

I think you getting there, I agree that dropping some of those "extras" will be better as you can then concentrate on the few and do them well.

One other thing, if you do drop the lat and bent over raises, make sure you have mil presses in their place and then when it gets too heavy you can convert them to push presses, the shoulders get a good workout from these!

Good of Tot to recommend keeping a journal, I did not mention it because as I mostly trained at home that was a regular thing for me, my current workout is always on the wall for guidance, never mind the guys who will try to take the mickey out of you, they know not what you do, so, you wil be better off taking notes when doing minor adjustments as then you scrore the benefits.

Cheers and it is a pleasure to help, you end up growing as a person when you do that and many times learning also!
 
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ok yeah thats worth thinking about.

i have DB shoulder press which is similar to mil press isn't it? plus i'll get a delt work out from the chest exercises.
i'm not against using BB - all for them in fact, but like i said i just like to mix it up, so i thought i'd start with with DBs.
how would i incorporate mill press into my routine? maybe something like this?

DAY LEGS---------------|-CHEST------|-SHOULDERS---|-BACK---|
M1 Squats-|-LegCurl---|-IncBenchDB-|-StandingMil-|-Chins--|
W1 Deads--|-CalfRaise-|-Dips-------|-ShldPrsDB---|-RowsDB-|
F1 Squats-|-LegCurl---|-IncBenchDB-|-StandingMil-|-Chins--|
M1 Squats-|-CalfRaise-|-Dips-------|-ShldPrsDB---|-RowsDB-|
W1 Deads--|-LegCurl---|-IncBenchDB-|-StandingMil-|-Chins--|
F1 Squats-|-CalfRaise-|-Dips-------|-ShldPrsDB---|-RowsDB-|
Abs every day.

or is it ok to do calfraise and legcurl every day? i guess it depends on time...
actually if i get rid of them its very similar to your post #40! (damn i wish i found this forum 5 years ago!)
although i feel i should hit them and i dont want to do SLDLs.
getting there...
 
Oz

This may be my opinion but I think leg curls generally slow you down, I do them but just as a complimentary exercise, as I perfer full Deads to SLDL's althought they certainly have their place!

Calf raises, this is very much a personal choice thing, the calf muscle though gets worked on every day whenever you are walking, clinbimng, running, etc so it needs plenty of stimulation to grow, that is both volume as well as mass.

Well, you've found it now! Take it this way, I am being punished having to do only body weight exercises after years of weight training, sounds like hell doesn't it? Gotta get used to it!

Its a great forum no doubt and no one is promoting this or that product which is great! Respect is also good although we had some squirmishes in the past...a great place to be!

Cheers mate
 
I have been reading a lot of this, and have to say it is great! I'm going in to my second cycle and wanted to know where I could incorporate, or switch an exercise for a military press.

Currently my workout consists of basic HST cycle lifts:

Chest/dips
Squat/dead lift (alternate)
Rows/Chins (W&N)
Bicep Curls
Tricep rope extension
Shoulders- Lat raise, rear delt, press
Shrugs
Calves
Forearms
Abs

I was also looking to switch rep/sets to 1 set for week or 15's, 2 sets for 10's, and 3 sets for 5's. Previously I did 2 sets for each week on my first cycle, but I read that a bunch of people switched to this and saw good results. Thanks for the help.
 
Yosef said:
I have been reading a lot of this, and have to say it is great! I'm going in to my second cycle and wanted to know where I could incorporate, or switch an exercise for a military press.

Currently my workout consists of basic HST cycle lifts:

Chest/dips
Squat/dead lift (alternate)
Rows/Chins (W&N)
Bicep Curls
Tricep rope extension
Shoulders- Lat raise, rear delt, press
Shrugs
Calves
Forearms
Abs

I was also looking to switch rep/sets to 1 set for week or 15's, 2 sets for 10's, and 3 sets for 5's. Previously I did 2 sets for each week on my first cycle, but I read that a bunch of people switched to this and saw good results. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

Yosef

To tell you the truth, you are doing all you need for shoulders, you can alternate one day Press, the other superset lateral and rear delt raises. What else could you do? Maybe a seated slow Arnold Press, you know it? Its with D/B's and you rotate them on your way up, just a variation of the military press, doing an incline bench will also engage your shoulders but as I said earlier, you are already doing what you basically need.

What are you currently doing in terms of reps/sets? 1 x 15/2 x 10/3 x 5 is the standard HST as it keeps the volume more or less constant.

Results require patience, good nutrition and perseverance with regards to training, form is most important, and then using form to go as hard as you can manage.

Hope this helps.
 
apologies if this has been answered before but i just want to make sure - can i skip 15s on my second cycle? Bryan states it in his article, but it's the only place i've seen it. just wanted clarification -

15¹s can be skipped when you are about to start over after the first 8 week cycle. If you are feeling strain-type injuries coming on don't skip the 15s.

so if i feel ok, should i go straight to 10s after SD? how often do you guys actually do 15s if this is the case?
 
OzMullet said:
apologies if this has been answered before but i just want to make sure - can i skip 15s on my second cycle? Bryan states it in his article, but it's the only place i've seen it. just wanted clarification -

15¹s can be skipped when you are about to start over after the first 8 week cycle. If you are feeling strain-type injuries coming on don't skip the 15s.

so if i feel ok, should i go straight to 10s after SD? how often do you guys actually do 15s if this is the case?
Click to expand...

You can try it, although I would not really recommend it, perhaps reduce it to just one week, but even that might have detrimental side effects towards the end. You will not do so well towards teh second week of 5's....

Why do most novices fight this so hard? Is it a macho thing (no offense here :p )? SD is good for the system as it rejuvenates muscle as well as joints,why do away with it?

Its a rant so...do not worry too much :) about it!

Last but not least, become a "lab coat" like many of us did, try it yourself but then let us know how it went and if it was worth the try!;)
 
thanks fausto. sorry maybe i wasnt clear. i'm not going to skip SD - all for it in fact! was just wondering about the 2nd cycle and 15s. i'll do whatever mate, just want to get the best results. it's just not clear about 15s thats all. Bryan states that 15s can be skipped after your first 8 week cycle if the joints are feeling ok. i was just wondering about that. i think to be safe i'll do 15s again (after SD of course!)
 
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