Simplify and Win!

XFM: If you can deadlift then you have the first half of the lift sorted. Practice hang cleans to get the second half sorted. It doesn't matter if you don't have great technique straight away; you can improve your technique over time. Just try to read a good description of the movement (Rippetoe's Starting Strength springs to mind) and then watch as many vids of the lifts that you can (where you know the form shown is good). Then start practicing with just the bar.

It's not that difficult if you use a load that would allow you to do a set of 10 reps.  However, I wouldn't recommend trying to do more than 10 consecutive reps in a set. Even 10 reps might be too many; motor co-ordination drops off quite quickly as fatigue sets in which is particularly bad for this lift. It would probably be better to do sets of 3 to 5 and then to progress the load over a cycle while attempting to match a rep target. You could drop the volume off a bit during the cycle though; you might start off with 5 x 5 when the load is light at the start of 15s and end up with 5 x 3 when you are nearer to your 5RM, perhaps dropping down to 3 x 3 with your 5RM (or higher if you feel confident to do so) at the end of the cycle.

For this lift in particular, it's always a good idea to do a reasonable number of warmup sets so that you can get in the groove prior to your work sets.

To press or not to press is up to you. You could start with a strict press, assuming the loads are light enough for you to do so at the start of a cycle, and then move on to a push press later in the cycle as the loads get heavier.

Some folks might really like these and some might hate them but it's worth giving them a shot. Although not essential, it really helps if you can use bumper plates so you can drop the bar after each lift once the loads are heavy (make sure your floor is up to it too!); I really don't enjoy dropping the bar back down onto my thighs from the racked position with anything over my 5RM. If you don't have access to bumpers then just take the loads as high as you feel comfortable to lower - some of the Oly lifters do hang clean reps with massive weights so it is possible to get the lowering technique mastered as well.

So, yes, power cleans are quite technically demanding and can take a fair bit of practice to get right (perfection would take a lot longer and would require coaching). Get your deadlift technique sorted first and then give them a go. They are not essential if you just want to add size but you might find that you really enjoy the challenge. If you get into jerks too you will find out how very satisfying it is to lift a weight from the floor to overhead and a whole load of fun dropping it back down to the floor again!
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Thanks, Lol. I'm sure I need to get my deadlift technique under the belt first. The weights I'm currently lifting are far too low to be considered serious on the deadlift and on the squat. That's why I started a strength cycle to get out of the ridiculous zone.
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I thought that I should strive for 1.5 x bodyweight for the squat and 1.75 x bodyweight for the deadlift. But I will certainly start with the Power Clean because I always found that a fascinating lift.
 
I had similar worries about power-cleans at first, but it really is a great back and shoulder workout. Even my rotator cuff gets sore from these! And my calves if I go heavy enough!
 
<div>
(Fausto @ Nov. 29 2007,03:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'd add them only once I am:

Benching 1 1/2 x body weight / Squatting 2 x BW / Deadlifting at least 2 x BW/Chinning with at least 1/4 BW attached/Dipping with 1/2 BW attached and last but not least Military pressing or at least push pressing BW x 1.

Then and only then it is worth adding a couple bicep+tricep isolations to enhance things up and maybe some lateral raises to add to the shoulder triple head arrangement.</div>
Hi Fausto,
what do u mean with the above???
Are they referred to 1RM or 5RM or what else?

Thanks
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hi Fausto,
what do u mean with the above???
Are they referred to 1RM or 5RM or what else?</div>

dottore

You can look at them as 1 RM, on the other hand if they're 5 RM's then even better, these are guidelines, if you're lifting that kinda weights, then you would by then have some fair growth to show. In which case you can then entertain the isolation moves to kinda complete the package if you know what I mean!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I am surprised this thread hasn't been stickied yet, since the idea comes directly from the FAQ.</div>

Yeah, 10,000 views, there must something right to it. [shouting]...Dan...??

I like your idea, since I have been training more or less like that meself! Hell, there is just no better way IMO.
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<div>
(Fausto @ Mar. 18 2008,14:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hell, there is just no better way IMO.
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I agree!
 
Talking about simple but effective...I finally saw two chaps doing some aserious deadlifting, so serious in fact that I was jealous...they were on 200 Kgs when I left.

Ok, they both over 6 feet tall, and the one guy is definitelly over 100 Kg himself, which proprotionatelly is not that hot, but damn, it looked good, this bugger did 15's with the weight I use for 5's (120 kg).

Just thought I'd mention it, otherwise...they are the only guys I have seen that do some serious lifting although I see many guys doing some very good benching, what the heck, everyone benches, anyway.
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But deadlifting and squatting, these are the only two guys I have seen doing something serious.
 
<div>
(Fausto @ Mar. 24 2008,02:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But deadlifting and squatting, these are the only two guys I have seen doing something serious.</div>
What is it about this forum that leads us to appreciate squats, deads, and serious lifting...?

[I'm so glad I found this place!
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<div>
(Old and Grey @ Mar. 24 2008,12:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The only good squat is a dead squat!

Squatters welcome to move in here!

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A dead squat?

As usual, I vote for this thread to be stickied. I wish I had sticky voting rights. Maybe we need an HST Forum Bill of Rights? LOL.
 
Hey guys,

I'm absolutely a fan of an simplified workout. At the moment, my workout consists of two alternating plans:
A Squats, Dips, Rows, Upright Row
B Deadlift, Bench Press, Chin Ups and Military Press

I see a lot of you do skip the shoulder exercises (Military Press and Upright Row) and I wonder if you're shoulders are nevertheless growing?
I can see, that with Dips and Bench Press one does already train the anterior delta's but what with the lateral and posterior delta's?
What are you're experience with this?

Greetings,
Basil
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I can see, that with Dips and Bench Press one does already train the anterior delta's but what with the lateral and posterior delta's? What are you're experience with this?</div>

My opinion? I don't really like to do upright rows, but I certainly integrate a mix in a superset of lateral raises + bent over raises for my A w/o and Military press for my B w/o, I think that completes the mix, but that is just my opinion!
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Bent over rows hit your rear delts pretty hard so unless you can really see them lagging I think it's better to focus on getting your row numbers up first rather than mess with isos.

I personally think that your inclusion of presses and upright rows is a good thing - just watch the upright rows. Don't feel you have to raise the load up to your chin; that's probably a bad idea for most folks. Lift until your elbows are about level with your shoulders (for me that's around the lower/middle part of my pecs) - any higher than this and you are just adding work for your traps anyway. Also, experiment with hand spacing. For me, the only way to comfortably perform upright rows is with a close grip on an EZ-bar.

If you feel your medial delts are lagging and you are doing plenty of presses and u-rows then some lateral raises might be worth a shot.

Shoulders have a tendency to be more susceptible to injury but I find that a really good shoulder warmup helps hugely.
 
Hm, okay, but then it seem's that you two are doing some shoulder iso stuff and do not only follow a very simplistic routine like deadlift, chinups and dips or squats, bench press and rows, only.
 
I personally stopped all shoulder work about 2 years ago due to rotator impingement in the right shoulder. My boulders have shrunk only a bit that I can notice, but they feel much smaller, so yes, for BB purposes it's probably best to include some sort of shoulder work if you can do it.
edit: except for face pulls I'm doing for rehab. I tried the 7-minute solution program but it didn't seem to work.
 
ive had a few problems with my shoulders due to continuous benching and heavy shoulder presses, im just getting back on track.

ive spoken to many people and they have said that full shoulder developement isnt possible without some sort of iso, be-it lateral raises or upright rows. in the end i think it comes down to body comp.some only need to do side laterals and nothing else, and they have huge shoulders to boot.

ive started to include some rotator exercises throughout the week and this has helped.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hm, okay, but then it seem's that you two are doing some shoulder iso stuff and do not only follow a very simplistic routine like deadlift, chinups and dips or squats, bench press and rows, only. </div>

Although I base myself very much on Military presses, I feel that the little inclusion I make of the superset has helped me achieve better shoulder development.

I think Lcars is quite right here, it is an individual thing, some do very well with just compounds, other need a little extra, after all we are giving you very broad guidelines, you will have to make the decision of what is best for you.

All in all you have a very good program going, Lol's opinion of upright rows is also correct, do not raise them up to your chin with a very close grip(if you want healthy shoulders), but rather use a wider grip and bring your upper arms parallel to the floor, or else use d/b's and just bring them up to your nippples.
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