A few queries I have...

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by SameOldSameOld, Jul 12, 2007.

  1. SameOldSameOld

    SameOldSameOld New Member

    Hello guys. I have been training for quite a few years but realise I have been over reaching and overtraining for years. anyhow I have a few queries that I have not yet found the answer to so wondered if anyone could help me out.

    1. I can only do about 9 or 10 chins with bodyweight but really want to improve this. How can I incorporate into HST? Can I somehow increase my reps without going to failure?

    2. If I train biceps, how would I incorporate using two different exercises eg. bar curls and preachers, into a HST cycle? For the sixth session of each rep cycle would I go to failure on one or both exercises?

    3. When it comes to the negatives for 2 weeks I will be doing 2more weeks of 5reps. should I be keeping my 5 rep max the same for the next 2 weeks or increasing it? eg. If my 5 rep max for curls is 100 do I just do:

    Week 1: Mon Wed Fri
    100x5 100x5 100x5

    Week 2: Same as above

    any help would be most appreciated. Cheers. [​IMG]
     
  2. bgates1654

    bgates1654 New Member

    1. Search for max-stim.

    2. You only need one, if at all. If you wish to use two different exercises, which I advise against becuase you are unnecessarily complicating your routine, alternate them each work out.

    3. Try to increase the weight if you can. If you cannot then stay at the weight or start using max-stim.
     
  3. lcars

    lcars New Member

    <div>
    (bgates1654 @ Jul. 12 2007,21:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">1. Search for max-stim.

    2. You only need one, if at all. If you wish to use two different exercises, which I advise against becuase you are unnecessarily complicating your routine, alternate them each work out.

    3. Try to increase the weight if you can. If you cannot then stay at the weight or start using max-stim.</div>
    i agree,i think that one exercise should be enough for bi's.
    perhaps change the exercise next cycle.

    i rotate between,hammers,chins and zedbar curls(close or wide grip).

    chins tend to reck your biceps nicely,hammers hit the forearm and peaks of the bicep while widegrip hits the belly of the bicep more,and narrow the outer peak.

    i suggest you go for overall growth,and only target specific areas if they need it.
     
  4. SameOldSameOld

    SameOldSameOld New Member

    Cheers guys. I have read about the max stim but could you suggest how I would incorporate into the HST cycle? I only want it for the chins. I don't quite know how. Cheers.
     
  5. SameOldSameOld

    SameOldSameOld New Member

    anybody have a clue about the chins? i.e. should I build up 15 reps the firs session, last session, Not quite sure how to go about it. [​IMG]
     
  6. bgates1654

    bgates1654 New Member

    max stim in the 15s... might as well maxstim in the 10s ... then when you add weight you might as well keep max stimming. Do your target reps (15 total? 20?).
     
  7. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    1 - Max stim would be a good approach for chins.

    2 - For arms you could alternate 2 exercises but that may get too much as you already have chins, I use incline d/b curls and then tricep pushdowns (it is a good combo) I also do reverse grip chins (whixh hits the biceps) and weighted dips (which hits the triceps) that combo is more than enough.

    3 - Negatives - as you will not be doing these, you may keep the weight for week 7 but try to increase it for week 8 even if it is just a tad, this is a grey area where you want to hit PR's.
    Many of us switch to max stim or 5 x 5 at this time and go on milking the cycle till we feel over-tired or always sore or irritable, at which point we take SD.

    SD then should be 14 and not 9 days! [​IMG]
     
  8. SameOldSameOld

    SameOldSameOld New Member

    thanks guys.
    Fausto do you have an idea how I should actually do the chis though. I can only manage around 9 or 10 with just my bodyweight? So what do I start off by doing?
     
  9. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    If 9 or 10 is max, do 8, take a break (1 minute or so) then do some more (3,4 or whatever, do not go to absolute failure). Keep doing this until you've done 20 or more.

    The main thing is, if you want to get stronger in chins you've got to do chins [​IMG]
     
  10. SameOldSameOld

    SameOldSameOld New Member

    Thank you Dan Moore. When I have done 20 reps what do I do next? As in the next training session, then the next after that etc.
    Do I try to do say 9 reps at once then take the minute or so break and continue up to 20 reps again. Then the next session go for 10 reps at once, take break, contiue up to 20 reps?
    Help much appreciated [​IMG]
     
  11. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    I am a complete wuss when it comes to chins (or most exercises, for that matter). I've only been working out for less than a year, so not only am I old and fat and out of shape, I am also weak. Heck, I've been doing my chins on a Gravitron (chin-up assist) machine. I'm surprised they don't make me wear Spandex...

    I started out in February using a 60 lb assist! I would do five sets of five. Then each week I'd gradually decrease the assistance weight. When I discovered Max-Stim, I began to use that for most of my exercises, including chins. Finally -- TA DA! -- yesterday I managed to do 25 big boy chin ups, using my total bodyweight.

    The key to Max-Stim (okay, maybe ONE of the keys...) is M-time. Instead of doing a set of however many reps, then taking a break, M-time is a break that you take between reps! M-time is variable -- you take as long as you need to make sure your next rep is a strong as your last one.

    So I'd do a chin up, count to three, then do another chin up. After about five chin ups, I'd increase my M-time to a count of five. After about ten chin ups, I was taking a good ten or twelve seconds between reps.

    When I got past 20 reps, my M-time was about 20 -- 25 seconds. Eventually, I was able to complete 25 chin ups in less time time and with less fatigue than if I had done five sets of five.

    If I can do it, you can, too.
     
  12. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator

    <div>
    (SameOldSameOld @ Jul. 12 2007,16:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"></div>
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> 1. I can only do about 9 or 10 chins with bodyweight but really want to improve this. How can I incorporate into HST? Can I somehow increase my reps without going to failure?</div>

    My suggestion would be to use pulldowns during the 15s and 10s until you get to the last workout of the 10s. So chins would work perfectly for your 10RM day(s).

    Then, after the 10’s keep using chins for the 5s. Don’t add weight the first day of 5s, but try to hit the same number of total reps you performed during the 10s. So if you did 2 sets of 10 on your 10RM day, do 4 sets of 5 on your first day of 5s.

    Then during the 5s, progressively add weight (using a chin/dip belt) 2.5 pounds at a time. Even if you have to reduce the number of sets you do. So lets say workout 1 you do 4 sets, then on workouts 2-4 you do 3 sets w/5lbs, then on workouts 5-6 you do 1 or 2 sets w/7.5-10lbs.

    Now, you may find that you are not reaching failure w/7.5-10lbs you can continue to add weight 2.5lbs at a time until you do reach your 5RM.

    Now, the second cycle, I would suggest organizing the increments so that it only took 6 workouts to reach your 5RM during the 5s. Then I would move into negatives using an additional weight. It is after doing negatives that most experienced lifters experience the greatest gains in strength when using HST.

    As always, if you feel you are over training reduce the volume.


    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> 2. If I train biceps, how would I incorporate using two different exercises eg. bar curls and preachers, into a HST cycle? For the sixth session of each rep cycle would I go to failure on one or both exercises?
    </div>

    You have a few options here. The simplest one is to simply do both exercises each time your train biceps using your RMs for each exercise individually as you suggested.

    Another option is to use alternating routines in which you would do bar curls on Monday, and Preachers on Wednesday, and bar curls again on Friday, etc, etc. In this instance you would normally only use your RMs on the 6th workout of each block. Keep in mind that it is the biceps themselves that you are focusing on, not the exercise, so the fact that you wouldn’t use your RM on one or the other each time you complete a block is not important.

    Finally, you could use the two different exercises sequentially as a way to progress your weight loads. Most people can use more weight doing standing barbell curls than they can doing Preacher curls.

    The idea is to start with Preacher curls for the 15s and into the 10s. Then as things start to get really heavy you switch exercises and begin using standing BB curls to finish the 10s or as you start your 5s.


    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">3. When it comes to the negatives for 2 weeks I will be doing 2 more weeks of 5reps. Should I be keeping my 5 rep max the same for the next 2 weeks or increasing it? eg. If my 5 rep max for curls is 100 do I just do:

    Week 1: Mon Wed Fri
    100x5 100x5 100x5

    Week 2: Same as above </div>

    Yes, just continue to use your 5RM weights. Although we try to increase the load over time to combat the effects of the RBE, by the time you reach your 5RMs the weight loads are often heavy enough to be effective for some time. It is helpful to incorporate drop sets during this period to maximize the growth stimulus.
     
  13. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    <div>
    (Bryan Haycock @ Jul. 24 2007,11:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My suggestion would be to use pulldowns during the 15s and 10s until you get to the last workout of the 10s. So chins would work perfectly for your 10RM day(s).

    Then, after the 10’s keep using chins for the 5s. Don’t add weight the first day of 5s, but try to hit the same number of total reps you performed during the 10s. So if you did 2 sets of 10 on your 10RM day, do 4 sets of 5 on your first day of 5s.

    Then during the 5s, progressively add weight (using a chin/dip belt) 2.5 pounds at a time. Even if you have to reduce the number of sets you do. So lets say workout 1 you do 4 sets, then on workouts 2-4 you do 3 sets w/5lbs, then on workouts 5-6 you do 1 or 2 sets w/7.5-10lbs.

    Now, you may find that you are not reaching failure w/7.5-10lbs you can continue to add weight 2.5lbs at a time until you do reach your 5RM.

    Now, the second cycle, I would suggest organizing the increments so that it only took 6 workouts to reach your 5RM during the 5s. Then I would move into negatives using an additional weight. It is after doing negatives that most experienced lifters experience the greatest gains in strength when using HST.

    As always, if you feel you are over training reduce the volume.</div>
    wow, that's fascinating i like really like that idea! i'd say go with that!!!

    okay, my aim is mainly hypertrophy, and i can only do about roughly 6 chinups (that was like last year though). SO could i do closegrip underhand pulldowns throughout my 15s, 10s, and 5s and only THEN on about the last workout of my 5s do chins??? and for the post-5s add weight? would this setup be good for hypertrophy? cos i just REEEALLY wanna get chinups in there, i reckon they'll do wonders ay!

    but will underhand pulldowns (with lots of progression of course) still cause hypertrophy in the bis???
     
  14. SameOldSameOld

    SameOldSameOld New Member

    Thanks Bryan, that sounds like a good plan of attack. Thanks for the detailed explanation. cheers guys [​IMG]
     
  15. SameOldSameOld

    SameOldSameOld New Member

    Hello again guys. Just a couple more questions if anyone could help please.
    I am thinking of skipping 15's next cycle and was wondering if it is ok to mix up rep ranges. For smaller muscle groups such as biceps would it be ok to do 12,7, and keep 10,5 for chest, legs etc.
    Also can you just do the 5's in the negatives/additional 2weeks of 5, for 1 week instead of 2 weeks and then SD as normal? would this make a big difference?
    Cheers guys. [​IMG]
     
  16. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    Speaking from the future, Bryan :) This won't work due to limiting the volume. It won't be as effective as staying at about 30 reps per MG.
     
  17. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Yes it will.
     
  18. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    In novices (less than a year?), yeah, it will.
    But... didn't you once say you tried to shoot for 30 reps per MG?
     
  19. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Bryan is talking about one exercise here, not volume for muscle groups. This discussion is about how to progress in chins when you are not strong enough in them.
     
  20. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    Possible, I just got the feeling it was the only exercise done to failure.
     

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