Cutting with HST
- Thread starter charr
- Start date
Can we find a different term besides newbie? Lol. I have been lifting for 3 years now
Novice perhaps... Or rookie! Lol
You are still a newbie ... I can add $1 to my savings account every week for three years, it doesn't mean I'm an expert saver or investor.
Terms are applied in the context of performance, length of time is irrelevant.
It really depends on what your goal is to determine progress factors. ExRx is a good general measuring point but, like all generalities, it is not individual specific and excludes many variables.
When you say temporary does strength come back straight away during a gaining phase?
Also. If I lose strength does that mean I have lost the hypertrophy I might have gained?
adpowah
Active Member
I imagine it's a bit different for everyone but I recently lost about 15lbs doing a 10k training. After about a month of eating at maintenance/light bulk type calories and lifting I regained most if not all of my muscle based on looks.
For strength, I lost about 60lbs off my squat (estimate), 40lbs off my bench (estimate) and 70lbs off my deadlift. I would say I have regained about 20-30lbs in my squat and deadlift and 20 in my bench. I am pretty sure if I was bulking I would have gained more if not all. However I am getting ready to lose another 10lbs and I wanted to give my body a diet break and finish reading/prepping for a run at RFL.
In conclusion, strength comes back pretty quick if you feed yourself.
For strength, I lost about 60lbs off my squat (estimate), 40lbs off my bench (estimate) and 70lbs off my deadlift. I would say I have regained about 20-30lbs in my squat and deadlift and 20 in my bench. I am pretty sure if I was bulking I would have gained more if not all. However I am getting ready to lose another 10lbs and I wanted to give my body a diet break and finish reading/prepping for a run at RFL.
In conclusion, strength comes back pretty quick if you feed yourself.
adpowah
Active Member
Yeah I definitely look trimmer and I am heading towards 15%. My diet wasn't super effective at preserving LBM so I definitely lost more muscle than necessary. Regardless it helped me learn a lot about dieting and how the physical/mental aspects of it. I think my next run using RFL will be overall more successful.
One of the things that was hard to deal with was how small I looked while losing weight. I had already determined myself to lose the weight so I figured I would just let whatever was going to happen to actually happen. However I thought it was going to take a year to regain what I lost. I figure that was a two fold issue; mentally over exaggerating the loses and I didn't follow any good diet other than eat less.
One of the things that was hard to deal with was how small I looked while losing weight. I had already determined myself to lose the weight so I figured I would just let whatever was going to happen to actually happen. However I thought it was going to take a year to regain what I lost. I figure that was a two fold issue; mentally over exaggerating the loses and I didn't follow any good diet other than eat less.
Roughly speaking in absolute terms;
Bench; 110 - 120kgs
Deadlift; 180 - 200kgs
Squat; 120 - 140kgs
Somewhere in there for 1RMs, but there's a lot of caveats with that. In terms of relative to BW, I suppose;
Bench; 1 - 1.25
Deadlift; 2 - 2.5
Squat; 1.25 - 1.5
Somewhere in there. Again, there's a lot of caveats; joint functioning, injury history, training protocols etc. BB Rows are another good indicator IMO, chin ups less so. Dips are not great b/c of leverage variance.
I think it's a viable baseline for sure.
Please read the RFL book. Then re-read it. Then let's be safe and go through it a third time.
You'll lose strength on a cut. You'll lose muscle on a cut. These are easily recoverable, and quickly too. The best diet is one you can stick to (most important consideration), and that will minimise these reductions (second most important consideration).
Just get started already ... you've waste 5 weeks on this already ...
The RFL protocol cuts out a lot of carbs..? It's pretty dramatic, from when your depleted to when you're topped up. Surprisingly so...
A few 400+ carb days fixes that
Yes, it cuts out carbs b/c science works.
I'm gonna come back to this post after a week or so... After a week of CBL 3,000 cal a day with 350+g of carbs a day. If I can maintain my 155lbs girth at 2700 or so calories (maybe even higher) with 250+g of carbs, well I think you can cut at 2200 and 200+g of carbs by TIMING YOUR NUTRITION!
If you're in a hurry to lose fat, you can do it but EVERYTHING else will be sacrificed... Not to mention what kinda shit short term, rapid loss may cause to your body.
If you're in a hurry to lose fat, you can do it but EVERYTHING else will be sacrificed... Not to mention what kinda shit short term, rapid loss may cause to your body.
There is leverage variance in any jointed, mechanical action! Why wouldn't Chins be Considered? I do well with pulls/Chins but suck at bench.... You guys can bench bridge abutments but suck at Chins...? Lol
Chins are a poor indicator because it is difficult to determine and conclude what constitutes valid/proper form.
Dips are not a good indicator because certain leverages and joint constructions make it nearly impossible for some people to perform these safely without severe risk of shoulder dislocation and/or sternum cartilage damage.
Deadlift, squat, bench, military press, SLDL, rack pull, incline press, hack squat, front squat etc. These can all be assessed using form, and leverage variation does not prevent the applicant from completing the lift.
For instance, my squat has very poor leverages; long torso, long femur/thighs, short shins, but I don't have any issue completing it w/correct form. My deadlift has significant leverage advantages; massive glutes, long arms, long thoracic region (which negates the disadvantage of a long torso) and shorter shins which let me bring my hips close to the bar and create a shorter moment arm. My bench breaks even; long arms are a negative but a massive rib cage is a huge positive.
I can perform dips but there are many who simply cannot due to limb length and/or torso anthropometry, unless they are willing to injure themselves. Hence, it's a bad indicator.
Personally, I think the two best strength indicators are deadlift and military press. It should be quite obvious why.
Tangent - might be worth contemplating that you stop putting "Lol" in every comment - you come off resembling Miley Cyrus. Just a thought.
Dips are not a good indicator because certain leverages and joint constructions make it nearly impossible for some people to perform these safely without severe risk of shoulder dislocation and/or sternum cartilage damage.
Deadlift, squat, bench, military press, SLDL, rack pull, incline press, hack squat, front squat etc. These can all be assessed using form, and leverage variation does not prevent the applicant from completing the lift.
For instance, my squat has very poor leverages; long torso, long femur/thighs, short shins, but I don't have any issue completing it w/correct form. My deadlift has significant leverage advantages; massive glutes, long arms, long thoracic region (which negates the disadvantage of a long torso) and shorter shins which let me bring my hips close to the bar and create a shorter moment arm. My bench breaks even; long arms are a negative but a massive rib cage is a huge positive.
I can perform dips but there are many who simply cannot due to limb length and/or torso anthropometry, unless they are willing to injure themselves. Hence, it's a bad indicator.
Personally, I think the two best strength indicators are deadlift and military press. It should be quite obvious why.
Tangent - might be worth contemplating that you stop putting "Lol" in every comment - you come off resembling Miley Cyrus. Just a thought.
I've done RFL multiple times and I'm in excellent health, so... rapid loss doesn't seem to have done anything negative. I've also got just about 200 lbs of lean mass after all these years. The thing about dieting is that it always sucks. Even if you do IF where you are feasting for part of the day, it still sucks. With RFL, it sucks just as hard but it ends sooner. Also, just because you lose strength temporarily (due to carb depletion, etc) it comes back very quickly. I've never lost huge amounts of muscle or back tracked a ton on my RMs by cutting using any method, including RFL. Last run of RFL, after a few days of refeed when I ended the diet, I was able to do deadlifts @ 545 x 3 when my 1 RM was 615 before I did the cut. That's without trying to build back up over time. So yeah, slight loss in strength there after two 11 day blocks of RFL, but not even a dramatic loss. That's a projected 1 RM of roughly 580 from 615 after losing appx 15 lbs (this is the adjusted total weight loss after regaining glycogen/water)
For normal people, if you end your cut then spend six weeks or so at maintenance while training strength, odds are you will get back to your old RMs quickly enough.
Thing is... with RFL, you are consuming a ton of protein. With that high of protein intake, coupled with intelligent weight training, you won't lose scads of muscle. You'll maintain most of it and lose primarily fat. Which is the entire goal of a cut anyway. There is no rule saying you must only lose 2 lbs a week maximum or you will get AIDs. In fact, Lyle recently came up with a more extreme weight loss diet which I haven't read yet but it is supposed to be even more brutal and extreme than RFL.
If you maintain your weight then you aren't cutting ... you know this, right?
Cut on carbs if you want to. I don't - it leaves me too hungry and a growling stomach. It also gives too great a fluctuation in blood glucose for me.
Not to mention that being honest with carb intake is a trap that about 9 out of 10 can't outsmart.
Again ... do what works for you. IF CBL Magical Fairy Dust diets aren't working for @charr. This is obvious. Try something with thousands of positive case studies instead - RFL.
A million times this.
Targeted/specific caffeine dosing assists performance greatly during a cut as well.