Doing away with bulking and cutting

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Nah the drills part of TKS for em is equivalent minus the tackling. I have puked from it but not in a long time. I would really like to go old school with training. But you can't compare the two because football practice is longer than TKD.

I do not count my calories since i find it is extremely difficult when you do not eat anything out of a box.
 
This site will show you the calorie content etc for all the different foods you eat in different amounts.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
Id assume nutritiondata.com does the same ive never used that site. All you really need is some scales so you can weigh the food.
Most foods like chicken, oatmeal, fish, bread, nuts etc should have nutrition details on the packaging.
Comes down to calories in vs calories out, the cleaness of the foods isnt that relevant when calories are controlled in terms of fatloss.
So if you havent been losing fat its because you've been eating to much/not burning enough, alter either and you'll start seeing results.
I think im one of the few guys that actually prefers cutting to bulking, i find it much easier to eat smaller amounts of food than the larger amounts i need when trying to gain.  
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Cova, If you are 17 years old, you sould be able to lose tons of weight, very fast and very easy.
get a bike and ride as hard as you can for 2 hours a day and in three months you should be very thin.
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(Cova @ Nov. 30 2006,23:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I do not count my calories since i find it is extremely difficult when you do not eat anything out of a box.</div>
I guess you don't want to lose weight that badly then.

How can you know how much you are eating if you don't count calories? A cut is the one time you definitely NEED to count calories. You won't know why you fail or suceed if you don't count.
Also, eating clean is not going to automatically make you lose weight. It just makes it harder to overeat. You could lose weight on a fast food diet if you count your calories and make sure you have a deficit, so if you want fast loss than that's what you need to focus on - making sure you have a calorie deficit.
 
cova,
i saw you pop up about a week ago with some questions on w/o's and a lot of input/advice on nutrition. if memory serves your 17, obviously into nutrition, tkd and lifting but other then being about 15%bf and cant seem to gain or lose i dont recall any other info.

whats your wgt?
whats your hgt?
i assume your doing HST training.
most importantly, what are your goals? where do you want to be in a yr.? how about 5 yrs?

i could be wrong but i dont know (or recall) too many teenagers who worked out and were into nutrition that needed to cut. anyway, it does sound like your well read when it comes to nutrition and health but if its not helping you achieve your goals (fat loss/muscle gain) perhaps you have access to TOO MUCH information. some of the above questions might help (me and others) clarify where your at and where you want to go.

congrats on hitting 100  posts in a little over a week. you kids have way more time and energy then me.

good luck
 
Well basically my dilema is this:
I do not have a whole lot of LBM which is around 130-133...nobody make fun of...i just started in june.

I have been bulking up and have gain 5 pounds of LBM in the past month but I have gain a significant amount of body fat, jumping from 140-156(my fat gain to muscle gain ratio would be 2:1 which is better than what i have seen from some people being 3:1.)

I feel I need more LBM to actually get down to the 10s and lower body fat percents.

I do not want to lose muscle mass to get down to 140 and be at around 7-10% body fat and practically lose all the little bit i have gained.

The best question to ask is, should i just continue bulking till i hit 20% or cut down?
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?

Right now, i plan on going on the velocity diet while taking hot-rox extreme over the holidays and go back to school with an 8 pack...or 6. I have the genetics to have an 8 pack formation.
 
ok
you havent mentioned your hgt yet and that obviously has a signif impact on whether 156lbs is skinny, fat or on target. im not sure what your overall goals are other then 6-8 pack by &quot;back to school&quot; time so ill just throw out a couple things that might apply.

5lbs of lbm gain in a month is very good (if accurate) but going from 140 to 156 in a month to get it is not. it sounds like your eating way too much over maint. cals. it doesnt matter how &quot;clean&quot; or healthy it is if your a couple thousand over your body just cant pack on more then about 1lb of muscle a week so the excess becomes....

if your over 5'6&quot; tall 156 is not very big (possible goal?) and 140 at any body fat % is really not big.

never done the velocity diet or taken hot-rox so take these comments at face value. what i know of the velocity diet is that is a hi protien liquid only diet for a period of time designed to drop wgt fast and hopefully preserve some muscle. any diet that you think has the potential to take you from 15% to and 8 pack in @ a month has an even greater potential to go very wrong and eat everything away. im skeptical of hot-rox but thats not really news.

the bottom line comes down to 1 fact and 1 question.

FACT&gt; your eating too many cals on your bulk. at this rate your going to hit 20% before you even gain 5 more lbs of lbm.  slow down the cals until your gaining about 1lb a week (@max lbm your body will put on anyway). at first this will seem like dieting as 1lb a week takes a lot less then 3lbs a week. your bf will probably still go up but it should go up slowly if your lifting HST style and hard as most of your wgt gained should be muscle.

QUESTION&gt; is being lean a really hi priority. 15% is not lean (nor is it really fat) but if you feel you need to be leaner for tkd or just healthy living (iyo) then dropping the fat should be a higher priority (then bulking). i wouldnt recommend any crash (velocity) type of diet though. anything that involves a modest cal deficit with exer over time should do the trick.

i hope that helps.
 
You do not need the velocity diet, you can lose weight easily you were just eating to much before. Control your calories as people have said and it will start to drop off.

Your at 15% bf now and its up to you whether you want to keep bulking or lean out, if you sort out your bulking calories and dont eat a crazy amount over maintenance you may be able to gain more lean muscle than fat which would make your bf% go down also. Especially as your newer to lifting like me.

I personally dont see to much of a benefit in going over 15% bf, simply because i think it may be more efficient to gain lean muscle mass at lower bf percentages. But if getting bigger is the priority for you then go on a bulk and cut off whatever fat you gain afterwards, it will be a good learning process for the next time you bulk.

I started gaining to much fat recently also, junk food seems addicted to me and keeps forcing me to have a bit to much 
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Well....what is the difference between a surplus of 10 and a surplus of 100 calories? How much goes towards muscle growth really. I have tried cutting(over the summer) I lost 5-7 pounds and gained absolutely no muscle the entire time.

I mean, hell if i can drop 16 pounds of fat in 28 days with no muscle mass loss....i think it is worth giving it a try. I have read about people that go on it and stuff. I think if you take all the right stuff, you can prevent muscle mass loss. You will still lose strength because it is low carbs but once a week but, you gain that back once you get off it.
 
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(Cova @ Dec. 04 2006,22:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well....what is the difference between a surplus of 10 and a surplus of 100 calories? How much goes towards muscle growth really. I have tried cutting(over the summer) I lost 5-7 pounds and gained absolutely no muscle the entire time.

I mean, hell if i can drop 16 pounds of fat in 28 days with no muscle mass loss....i think it is worth giving it a try. I have read about people that go on it and stuff. I think if you take all the right stuff, you can prevent muscle mass loss. You will still lose strength because it is low carbs but once a week but, you gain that back once you get off it.</div>
i cant say i am able to really follow your post ? ? ?

the difference btw 10 and 100 cals is negligable yes. the difference btw a surplus (over maint) of 500 to 1000 cals and 1000-2000 cals is 1lb a week gain (probably .75 lbm) vs 3lb a week gain (probably .75 lbm). do you see a problem here.


&quot;i tried cutting.  i lost 5-7 lbs and gained absolutely no muscle the entire time&quot;
this is what cutting is. restricting cals to the point that your body losses wgt. this is not the enviroment for gaining muscle.

&quot;i have read about people that go on it and stuff. i think if you take all the right stuff, you can prevent muscle mass loss.&quot;
what is stuff? ? ? and where do you get it?

expecting to lose 16 lbs in 28 days and have it all be fat is wishfull thinking imo. you seem set on trying it and im not hear to talk you out of it, i just stand by my orig. statement
&quot;any diet you think has the potential to take you from 15% to a 6 pack in @ a month has an even greater potential to go very wrong and eat everything away.&quot;

the choice is yours
good luck
 
16lbs of fat is 56,000 calories. In 28 days thats a deficit of 2000 calories below maintenance a day, doing that you would lose a lot of muscle. People lose muscle on a 500 calorie deficit, let alone 2000.

Look at what the velocity diet is based on:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Five years ago a T-Nation contributor pen-named Brock Strasser came up with something called the Fat Fast Diet. This was based roughly on a diet given to morbidly obese patients in medical emergencies, like when they needed to lose 100 pounds as fast as possible so they could safely have surgery. In Brock's version, you basically drank flax seed oil and whey protein shakes all day.</div>

He goes on to say the velocity diet is his updated version of this fast fat diet.
Morbidly obese people arent exactly the best people to base diets on. The more bodyfat a person has the less chance they have of losing muscle mass, so any results in terms of fat loss/muscle maintained for someone morbidly obese would have no relevance to anyone like us.
 
I have said it before and I will say it again: You are 17 years old, buy a bike a ride like mad for 2 hours a day and you will lose your fat.
 
Is there any way to gain muscle, and loose fat (or at least not gain any) with only one hour per day to lift (or do cardio)?

I have just started lifting, and have no intentions of gaining fat. I am about 19% right now. Up until about 3-4 years ago I was around 10%, but things seemed to change when I hit 30. I would like to gain muscle, but not at the expence of gaining more fat. My main goal is just to get into shape, and loose a little fat. I really feel good after lifting, so I would do it even if I never gained any muscle (but would enjoy it more if I did). So far I have keept my normal diet, but just added protein, and creatine. It is too early to really tell if I have gained (only lifted for a couple weeks to get my form and lifts donw and now just started my first HST this week).
 
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(davidwillis @ Dec. 05 2006,14:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Is there any way to gain muscle, and loose fat (or at least not gain any) with only one hour per day to lift (or do cardio)?</div>
That is what this thread is about. Some say yes. Some say no.
 
''Is there any way to gain muscle, and loose fat (or at least not gain any) with only one hour per day to lift (or do cardio)?''

Yes, workout regularly, for noobs it will happen
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(davidwillis @ Dec. 05 2006,14:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Is there any way to gain muscle, and loose fat (or at least not gain any) with only one hour per day to lift (or do cardio)?</div>
In short yes.

In long, you can either do a TCD, LCD or just a regular BB diet.

Then train HST 3x a week, or 5x5 or whatever else you want to do.

Then on two days a week get out there before breakfast while your glycogen stores are low and do your cardio, biking, running...whatever.

Two days off a week.
 
Thanks guys. One question(this is probably a dumb question), what is a TCD, LCD, and BB diet?
 
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(bluejacket @ Dec. 05 2006,00:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">&quot;i have read about people that go on it and stuff. i think if you take all the right stuff, you can prevent muscle mass loss.&quot;
what is stuff? ? ? and where do you get it?</div>
Hot-Rox Extreme has some very potent muscle retention formulas for fat loss. You take that along with the right amount of proteins and fats, and eat your whole food meals with carbs once a week. I am positive taking supps like glutimine, phenylenine.....however you spell it, a little bit of creatine post workout, amino acid formulas, and other things similar should help prevent muscle mass. The main problem here is expense....the cheapest i have seen hot-rox extreme go for is 39.99 for 25-50 days worth(depending on how much a day you take). I am not sure but I do not think it has deuretics in it(which would make taking creatine useless for the most part.)

I have been reading people's results from different sites and they all say they have lost about 2 inches in the waste with barely noticable if not any LBM. Now their strength drops dramatically due to their bodies not being use to little amount of carbs and pure liquid diets but that doesnt mean they lost muscle mass....People think that when you lose strength you lost muscle; this might be true in some cases but I find that with adequate nutrition you see more strength out of the same muscles than you would on a maintenance or calorie deficit diet. (This should be common sense)

There is actualy a site i found that will send HotROX XTR for 39.99 free shipping which is better than you can probably find even on ebay. (Will post the site later sense it is on my laptop.)

PS: People say fat burners don't work and i think that is complete crap...it all depends on how you use it. When they say it doesn't work, they mean it will not do a **** thing if you sit on ur arse. I have had success with certain high quality thermogenics.

Oh and those green tea diet pills.....they will only help you burn off like 50 calories if that.(low quality)
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have had success with certain high quality thermogenics.</div>

In your other posts, you talk about not being able to lose any fat and such. Reading you here, I see that you're about to learn a big lesson. Since you like surfing so much, just check out each site's posts on anything they sell. Then check out the posts about those products in other sites where it's not sold. That should open your eyes.
I use thermos for energy for workouts, occasionally, but I'm willing to bet that if you don't change your diet, and take thermos, your weight isn't going to change.

Calories in/calories out. Never changes.
 
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